How, if at all, can the Coastways be improved?

[Schweir]

I've seen a lot of people complain about the slow journey times on the West / East Coastways both on this forum and in person. What can be done to improve these services, or do you think they work fine just as they are?

 

[Bald Rick]

They just have been!

 

[PGAT]

They just have been!

The objective of the timetable change was to untangle the mess that existed before as well as improving reliability. Journey times have not been significantly reduced but rather take longer because of additional changes required.

 

[devon_belle]

There are some very informative network rail studies on the line (found via Google) and a lot of interesting threads on this forum.

I think the short of it is that there isn't much that can improve without infrastructure enhancements. Triple/quadruple tracking certain sections is mentioned, though no doubt knowing it would never happen. I suspect there are locations where strategic loops could be added if funding was available.

Worthing loop and Barnham loop don't seem to be used for overtaking? But I'm sure that if they were useful for this purpose then they would have been used since the timetable recast.

 

[JonathanH]

Worthing loop and Barnham loop don't seem to be used for overtaking? But I'm sure that if they were useful for this purpose then they would have been used since the timetable recast.

I think the previous threads explain that Worthing loop has very restrictive signalling that makes overtaking not viable.

Realistically the Coastway infrastructure is never going to move up any lists for improvement. Simply in the wrong part of the country for investment.

 

[devon_belle]

Realistically the Coastway infrastructure is never going to move up any lists for improvement. Simply in the wrong part of the country for investment.

I guess it would have to be a local council incentive?

 

[JonathanH]

I guess it would have to be a local council incentive?

Local councils don't have the necessary funding for improvements to operational rail infrastructure. They might be able to make the area around the exterior of a station nicer.

Looking at previous threads, there have been suggestions in the past about incremental improvements, but you do have to wonder about where the impetus to do anything would come from.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think the previous threads explain that Worthing loop has very restrictive signalling that makes overtaking not viable.

Realistically the Coastway infrastructure is never going to move up any lists for improvement. Simply in the wrong part of the country for investment.

The road infrastructure between Brighton and Portsmouth is rubbish too

 

[JonathanH]

The road infrastructure between Brighton and Portsmouth is rubbish too

Yes, and whenever any suggestion of upgrading the A27 around Arundel comes up, it is usually cancelled in the name of budget cuts.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, and whenever any suggestion of upgrading the A27 around Arundel comes up, it is usually cancelled in the name of budget cuts.

Yes, the latest worked up proposal for Arundel has just been completely cancelled.

The number of stations and level crossings on the west end of the west coastway is high for the distance, it’s never going to help with fast services. But I think we have to give the Jun 2024 timetable change time to bed in and for people to adapt to it. I have no opinion on the situation east of Brighton, but it’s too early to be suggesting service pattern changes to the west.

As others have said, additional infrastructure to allow overtaking is probably out of the question.

I would also mention in passing that if the idea of a south coast high speed line ever comes up in this discussion, treat it as the “off the scale fantasy” that it really is.

 

[devon_belle]

I would be interested to see the ratio of 'through' journeys to shorter 'metro'-style journeys, especially along the east end of the West Coastway. It could be that there really just isn't a huge demand for faster long-distance services, and that most of the customers would rather have a more homogeneous high-frequency service.

For the record, I would like a semi-fast or fast option from Brighton through to Southampton, like there was when GWR still ran this way. But I am willing to concede that this just isn't as necessary as I think, and longer journey times are a sacrifice we must make in order to serve the needs of the Littlehampton-Brighton conurbation. Back when I used to get the Southern Southampton–Brighton trains, they would always be very quiet up until Chichester or even beyond. On the flip side, the GWR 158s were usually pretty packed the whole way along. But... I would have been travelling at desirable times (half terms, etc), which has probably biased this anecdata.

I would also mention in passing that if the idea of a south coast high speed line ever comes up in this discussion, treat it as the “off the scale fantasy” that it really is.

If only the people of Angmering had the lobbying power to get the 200 mph service to London via Brighton that they deserve!

 

[swt_passenger]

I would be interested to see the ratio of 'through' journeys to shorter 'metro'-style journeys, especially along the east end of the West Coastway. It could be that there really just isn't a huge demand for faster long-distance services, and that most of the customers would rather have a more homogeneous high-frequency service.

For the record, I would like a semi-fast or fast option from Brighton through to Southampton, like there was when GWR still ran this way. But I am willing to concede that this just isn't as necessary as I think, and longer journey times are a sacrifice we must make in order to serve the needs of the Littlehampton-Brighton conurbation. Back when I used to get the Southern Southampton–Brighton trains, they would always be very quiet up until Chichester or even beyond. On the flip side, the GWR 158s were usually pretty packed the whole way along. But... I would have been travelling at desirable times (half terms, etc), which has probably biased this anecdata.

The GWR service only ran as a through service from the west of Southampton once a day eastbound, (the other morning peak arrival only came from Portsmouth or Fratton), and twice a day westbound, and I think it had negative timetabling effects on other services, so with hindsight I now suspect it was intentionally removed well in advance of the intended 2 tph Southampton Brighton trains. At few years ago a route study had the GWR early arrival being criticised as having inadequate capacity into Brighton, and I always thought it wasn’t really a problem that GWR should have to solve, it should have been made a franchise requirement for SN to put on longer trains for the morning commute. I think the recent changes did concentrate on providing that improved short distance capacity into Brighton.