How hard can it be?

[Drsatan]

With regards to this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27091&page=2, if in the unlikely situation the Voyagers are shunted off XC, North Wales Coast and Birmingham - Scotland services and replaced by loco-hauled services, couldn't some 56s be reinstated to haul these trains?

This is because there are many 56s formerly used on LGV Est construction trains dumped at Healey Mills and other places. Surely giving them an F exam and regearing them for 90-100 mph operation would be cheaper than ordering new diesel locomotives to haul these trains? I do recognise that 67s and maybe a new type of diesel would be necessary since there probably wouldn't be enough 56s available.

Just a thought

 

[90019]

How hard can it be?

Don't say that!!

 

[LucaZone]

Are Class 56's even appropriate to haul passenger stock? For me (somewhat uneducated) thats like suggesting the Class 60 would be a good stop gap for a HST replacement!

Like you say, surely the surplus 67 fleet would be far better suited to this.

 

[Drsatan]

Are Class 56's even appropriate to haul passenger stock? For me (somewhat uneducated) thats like suggesting the Class 60 would be a good stop gap for a HST replacement!

Like you say, surely the surplus 67 fleet would be far better suited to this.

The reason I suggested 56s is that they're more powerful than 47s (3250bhp) and they could work alongside 67s. Also 56s could be fitted with ETH.

 

[Pumbaa]

Like you say, surely the surplus 67 fleet would be far better suited to this.
__________________

Problem is, there's bugger all surplus 67s left now!

 

[Royston Vasey]

The reason I suggested 56s is that they're more powerful than 47s (3250bhp) and they could work alongside 67s. Also 56s could be fitted with ETH.

ETH fitment would sap a great deal of the power advantage away anyway. For example the Cl 47s have an ETH index of 66 which equates to 330kW, which equates to about 400 bhp lost in tractive effort. Better to use 47s than fit ETH to a 56!

I also recall reading somewhere that the engine room of a 56 is incredibly tightly packed so whether the ETH equipment would even fit is another question.

 

[bluenoxid]

With regards to this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27091&page=2, if in the unlikely situation the Voyagers are shunted off XC, North Wales Coast and Birmingham - Scotland services and replaced by loco-hauled services, couldn't some 56s be reinstated to haul these trains?

This is because there are many 56s formerly used on LGV Est construction trains dumped at Healey Mills and other places. Surely giving them an F exam and regearing them for 90-100 mph operation would be cheaper than ordering new diesel locomotives to haul these trains? I do recognise that 67s and maybe a new type of diesel would be necessary since there probably wouldn't be enough 56s available.

Just a thought

What??? Of all the ideas I've seen, this one ranks up there.

Couple of 321's could be freed up for those services to act as a temporary solution. The problem is that Virgin are smart over contract changes so change is unlikely to happen before 2012

 

[poshbakerloo]

The class 56 are a bit on the slow side for high speed rail services...80Mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are Class 56's even appropriate to haul passenger stock? For me (somewhat uneducated) thats like suggesting the Class 60 would be a good stop gap for a HST replacement!

Like you say, surely the surplus 67 fleet would be far better suited to this.

The class 67 has a top speed of 62Mph so I doubt that would happen lol

 

[Dave R]

The class 56 are a bit on the slow side for high speed rail services...80Mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The class 67 has a top speed of 62Mph so I doubt that would happen lol

eh? 67s are 125mph arent they?

 

[driver9000]

eh? 67s are 125mph arent they?

They sure are

 

[Phoenix]

Out of all the redundant classes why Grids there highly unsuited to the duty don't have the that I know of and there reliability is poor and thats the English built one's im talking about I won't start on the imported ones.

Fair enough idea about the fact we need more loco hauled services but a different class of locomotives might be needed.

 

[90019]

The class 67 has a top speed of 62Mph so I doubt that would happen lol

Where on earth did you get that from?
They're capable of 125mph.

 

[O L Leigh]

Couple of 321's could be freed up for those services to act as a temporary solution.

Perhaps, but you'd need a VERY long extension lead.

O L Leigh

 

[Drsatan]

The class 56 are a bit on the slow side for high speed rail services...80Mph

I mentioned in the thread starter that the 56s could be regeared so they could potentially achieve 90-100mph

 

[O L Leigh]

We heard you.

But it's still down to more than just the final drive gearing. Cl56's have never been cleared to run at that speed. What are the dynamic properties of the bogies when running at 90-100mph? No-one knows. There are also the small matters of a lack of ETS or push-pull equipment.

This is frankly a daft suggestion. Why should Cl56's be resurrected and massively modified when there are Cl57's already suited to the job floating around?

O L Leigh

 

[Phoenix]

Could the 57/0's be utilised by the application of eth equipment so they can effortlessly work passenger trains personally this if possible is a much more preferable option considering there long shelf life and the fact there based upon a highly regarded passenger design.
I mean the addition of ETH shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Could the 57/0's be utilised by the application of eth equipment so they can effortlessly work passenger trains personally this if possible is a much more preferable option considering there long shelf life and the fact there based upon a highly regarded passenger design.
I mean the addition of ETH shouldn't be too hard.

57/0s are lower powered than the 57/3s and 57/6s, they have only 2500hp and thus have a 75mph top speed.

Source: http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Resource_data/Class57.pdf

Again, you'd be taking away a further 400hp for an equivalent ETH index to a 47/4.

In response to the original question, if you're suggesting taking stored 56s, which would need not only refurbishment/restoration but also ETH fitment, why not just take stored 47/4,7,8s and do the same? There are plenty still sat around in various states of repair. Some are still active on non-passenger work.

EDIT: I should point out I'm talking theoretically. Bringing back what are now heritage locos into daily mainline operation is a recipe for disaster, particularly diesel locos. Would be interesting to see a "Project Phoenix" type renovation, which in a way is what the Class 57 project was.

 

[RobShipway]

You have also got to think about the fact that a phoenix project to rebuild the class 47's would possibly at this moment in time cost you more than buying a new set of locomotives

 

[poshbakerloo]

eh? 67s are 125mph arent they?

Oops I think I ment the Class 66

 

[ukrob]

Oops I think I ment the Class 66

Even if you were, still wrong.

From memory:

66/6 - 65mph (due to different gearing)
all others 75mph.

 

[Spartacus]

Most of the stored 56s that I've inspected have been in such a state you wouldn't expect them to run again in any fashion, never mind on long distance passenger services after being fully modified. It's also not only signal cabling the copper fairies have laid their hands on.....

A far better idea would be to get your hands on the plans for the Sulzer 16LVA24 engine, employ modern, lightweight production techniques, and build yourself a fleet of Kestrels.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Most of the stored 56s that I've inspected have been in such a state you wouldn't expect them to run again in any fashion, never mind on long distance passenger services after being fully modified. It's also not only signal cabling the copper fairies have laid their hands on.....

A far better idea would be to get your hands on the plans for the Sulzer 16LVA24 engine, employ modern, lightweight production techniques, and build yourself a fleet of Kestrels.

If you want to build a fleet of Kestrels, then ask the Russians. Legend has it that the Soviets bought Kestrel, thoroghly reverse engineered her and copied every nut and bolt.

Interesting account here:

This ex East German beast is said to be similar internally (and externally? Perhaps) to Kestrel

 

[Turbostar]

I mentioned in the thread starter that the 56s could be regeared so they could potentially achieve 90-100mph

Are you nuts, what planet are you from???

 

[Drsatan]

Ok, thanks for your responses guys. Looks like I've been proved wrong.

 

[Chester025]

Oops I think I ment the Class 66

I think you might be thinking of the Class 60.

 

[87015]

Are you nuts, what planet are you from???

I've had grids going well above 80mph, and they have been timed over the ton. The idea of using them for everyday passenger use might be fanciful, but they were very capable machines.

 

[37402]

Aside from replacing the entire copper content of a loco, could those planning to fit ETS to a 56 please inform me where, within the bodyshell, the space is that they plan to utilise to locate the equipment. Last time I looked, there wasn't any...

 

[delt1c]

This was something which was spoken about in the late 70's early 80's, the APT would be in service on the WCML and the Mk111's used on some cross country routes with regeared 56's fitted with ETS.
There were many cascade plans under BR which never came to frutation. Some were part instigated others never got of the drawing board.

 

[Fincra5]

if TopGear has taught me anything its never to say "How hard can it be?" !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Royston Vasey]

if TopGear has taught me anything its never to say "How hard can it be?" !!!!!!!!!!!

"...so we decided to find out!"