How good is geographical knowledge amongst rail staff?

[RichmondCommu]

A couple of weeks ago I asked the Booking Clerk, at Bridgend, whether it was possible to book a ticket to Tredegar. She immediately quoted Newport as the nearest station. I pointed out that Rhymney is only a couple of miles from Tredegar and that there is a bus link shown in the timetable. She just shrugged and said;

'I can book you to Rhymney, if you'd prefer'.

I got the impression that she had no idea where Rhymney or Tredegar are.

Given that you clearly already knew that there wasn't a station at Tredegar why did you ask the question?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Given that you clearly already knew that there wasn't a station at Tredegar why did you ask the question?

It was perfectly reasonable question. If you have bothered to fully read the thread you will find that Tredegar is included in the railway timetable, together with Blackwood. Neither of them has a station but it is possible to book a ticket to Blackwood. (See attachment) Many of the bus links have disappeared as a result of cutbacks in funding to local government. Hirwaun; Caerau; Ogmore Vale; Tonyrefail; Abertillery and others no longer feature in the timetables. When the bus links were in operation, it was possible to book a rail ticket to all of those places. It appears that Blackwood, in Caerphilly Borough, is the only one left. The service to Tredegar, in Blaenau Gwent, still meets the train but through ticketing has been withdrawn.

There is, or was, a long tradition of ticket interavailability between bus and train, in south Wales. Just look at old timetables and you will find a list of services provided by the Western Welsh Omnibus Company and Red & White.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It was perfectly reasonable question. If you have bothered to fully read the thread you will find that Tredegar is included in the railway timetable, together with Blackwood. Neither of them has a station but it is possible to book a ticket to Blackwood. (See attachment) Many of the bus links have disappeared as a result of cutbacks in funding to local government. Hirwaun; Caerau; Ogmore Vale; Tonyrefail; Abertillery and others no longer feature in the timetables. When the bus links were in operation, it was possible to book a rail ticket to all of those places. It appears that Blackwood, in Caerphilly Borough, is the only one left. The service to Tredegar, in Blaenau Gwent, still meets the train but through ticketing has been withdrawn.

There is, or was, a long tradition of ticket interavailability between bus and train, in south Wales. Just look at old timetables and you will find a list of services provided by the Western Welsh Omnibus Company and Red & White.

But again you clearly knew all of this when you asked the question so why make a big song and dance about it?.

 

[Eagle]

It's helped me out loads (and I bet staff get this feeling sometimes too, esp ones on here who are the most likely to be interested)!

Meeting loads of new people for the first time, as you do in Freshers' week, many are astonished that you've heard of their town.

What happens when you meet someone who, like me, comes from a town not on the rail network? :P

 

[Chapeltom]

My geographical knowledge would take some beating. I travel all over the North watching all kinds of non-league football and whilst I don't travel south very often know a lot of places down south by team and could probably pin most places on the map. People at Uni seemed amazed when I said I'd been to their towns or in the south, knew where it was, the football team there and the league they played in.

I wouldn't expect any member of rail staff to know every place in the country, just like I wouldn't with any ordinary man on the street. It does help with me that I've almost got a photographic memory.

 

[Clip]

It was good fun during the Olympics at Stratford with so many people asking for all sorts of obscure destinations. My favourite though was the guy that asked which platform for Cyprus. I'll leave that as a test for you

Easy, take the woolwich arsenal service from the low level platforms and change at canning town and go upstairs for the Beckton service.

I dont think knowledge has gone down really but most people will generally know the big towns and cities apart from whats on their line - there is nothing wrong with this. I know I wouldnt be able to tell someone off the top of me head how to get to some obscure town in North Wales - why would I know that? I work in the South East and not North Wales/North west England.

 

[talltim]

I'm not staff, but I will say that my UK (and most of my US and Swiss) geographical knowledge comes from an interest in railways

 

[Gwenllian2001]

But again you clearly knew all of this when you asked the question so why make a big song and dance about it?.

Why are you making such an assumption? I did not know that there was any difference in the arrangements for booking between Blackwood and Tredegar, they appear in the timetable in exactly the same way, without qualification. I know the situation now, having gone through various websites.

By the way, I do sing but not dance and I am not a liar. The original question was not answered in a professional way and I would expect better from a member of staff. It's not as if they were being asked about an obscure village in the north of Scotland but a well known town about forty miles away. All that was needed was a simple answer such as:

'You cannot book a through ticket, you'll need to pay on the bus'.

Many people on this forum delight in complaining about rail staff. I am not one of them but sometimes, someone will let the side down and it is naive to think otherwise.

 

[Clip]

'You cannot book a through ticket, you'll need to pay on the bus'.

Many people on this forum delight in complaining about rail staff. I am not one of them but sometimes, someone will let the side down and it is naive to think otherwise.

I dont think people do, what some people do forget though is that people are human and when they have to sit in front of a computer screen punching out roughly the same tickets day after day, the computer takes over. Now what probably happened was the clerk just typed in the name and as nothing came up said you couldnt do it as the computer told him it doesnt exist. Now, yes he shouldve looked a bit harder and he wouldve found the appropriate ticket but all in all if it doesnt come up then it doesnt exist.

Im not sticking up for the clerk here and he may just be a lazy sod but some people do get disenfranchised at work, in every job role going throughout the world people will and do get bored and fed up. Not an excuse but what do you expect us to do?


And no matter how much training and retraining and briefing and rebriefing staff on a whole host of issues, some of them just dont soak it up. Thats human nature,well except on this forum where everyone knows everything and how to do everything that has ever happened on the railway.


ETA: Ive never heard of the place either

 

[High Dyke]

Why have you presumed that everyone works for a ToC?

Trains?
They go past here, so what?
I do my job and take the money, thank you very much.

I cannot work out why you have to have an "interest" in the railway just because you work on it.

Well said fellow signalman.

I still enjoy my job, but these days it is usually just another train passed the window... Probably not as good as older times. As to having an interest then yes i've known quite a few people in the industry that don't necessarily have an interest in trains, but do it because it is a job. A couple of signalmen - now retired - once told me they hated their jobs and only came to work so as they didn't sit around the house all day.

 

[Beveridges]

There's quite a few drivers I've met who also say they hate their jobs.


Now even as a member of railway staff I have to defend the trainspotters. Their knowledge of some things far exceeds that of certain staff. I've worked with some staff who don't even know what a Class 37 is, who's knowledge of 1960's & 70's built locomotives is practically zero, says it all.

You can't just say "Staff know more about the railway than Train Spotters".

I'm also a Train Spotter myself so I have gained knowledge from both the job and the hobby so as a result have a much greater railway knowledge than some colleagues who only know what they have to know (and not even that in some cases!).

It's nothing to brag about. I couldn't care less. But I'm just saying.

 

[jca]

FGW gateline staff at Slough once called an RPI over when I tried to break my Twyford-Paddington journey using my Twyford-Paddington gold card, since apparently it was not valid for the route...

I'd have hoped knowledge extended to 'the next stop but one' on the mainline, but it would appear not...

 

[AndyHudds]

My geographical knowledge would take some beating. I travel all over the North watching all kinds of non-league football and whilst I don't travel south very often know a lot of places down south by team and could probably pin most places on the map. People at Uni seemed amazed when I said I'd been to their towns or in the south, knew where it was, the football team there and the league they played in.

I wouldn't expect any member of rail staff to know every place in the country, just like I wouldn't with any ordinary man on the street. It does help with me that I've almost got a photographic memory.

Big head

I know what you mean though mate,I follow a league club up and down the land and I'm a football fan too, who is interested in football. Its amazing how much geographical, train and bus knowledge you pick up by travelling round England and Wales watching football games!!

 

[Fred26]

There's quite a few drivers I've met who also say they hate their jobs.


Now even as a member of railway staff I have to defend the trainspotters. Their knowledge of some things far exceeds that of certain staff. I've worked with some staff who don't even know what a Class 37 is, who's knowledge of 1960's & 70's built locomotives is practically zero, says it all.

You can't just say "Staff know more about the railway than Train Spotters".

I'm also a Train Spotter myself so I have gained knowledge from both the job and the hobby so as a result have a much greater railway knowledge than some colleagues who only know what they have to know (and not even that in some cases!).

It's nothing to brag about. I couldn't care less. But I'm just saying.

Why would staff need to know what a class 37 is? I probably couldn't point one out, even as an enthusiast. I certainly wouldn't expect staff who aren't enthusiasts to know that sort of thing.

 

[Gareth Marston]

This thread reminds of a NR Manager at Birmingham New St who answered a query about Cambrian Coast bound trains not being announced at New St with a reply that indicated he thought the Cambrian Coast was between Shrewsbury and Chester.

 

[Tom B]

This isn't confined to the railways at all. I heard a tale about an attendant at a museum in the South Kensington area who, upon being asked where Stevenson's Rocket might be found, promptly pointed the person in the direction of the space exhibition.

 

[Llanigraham]

Now even as a member of railway staff I have to defend the trainspotters. Their knowledge of some things far exceeds that of certain staff. I've worked with some staff who don't even know what a Class 37 is, who's knowledge of 1960's & 70's built locomotives is practically zero, says it all.

You can't just say "Staff know more about the railway than Train Spotters".

I'm also a Train Spotter myself so I have gained knowledge from both the job and the hobby so as a result have a much greater railway knowledge than some colleagues who only know what they have to know (and not even that in some cases!).

It's nothing to brag about. I couldn't care less. But I'm just saying.

So why should I know what a Class 37 is/was?
Is it of any relevance to what passes my Box now?
What has the 60's or 70's locos got to do with the job today?

 

[Eagle]

So why should I know what a Class 37 is/was?
Is it of any relevance to what passes my Box now?
What has the 60's or 70's locos got to do with the job today?

To be fair, there are still 37s in service on the national network (DRS and DBS use them) so it's not exactly obsolete knowledge.

Also they're fitting a few with ETRMS for use on the Cambrian.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Now even as a member of railway staff I have to defend the trainspotters. Their knowledge of some things far exceeds that of certain staff. I've worked with some staff who don't even know what a Class 37 is, who's knowledge of 1960's & 70's built locomotives is practically zero, says it all.

Why should a driver who works for say FCC need to know anything about class 37's, or for that matter class 47's? They will never drive them so what difference does it make? You don't need to be a rail enthusiast to drive a train or indeed have a career on the railways.

 

[Beveridges]

I never said you did, even though in some jobs it may help ease the boredom if your an enthusiast, which is a big advantage. I was simply saying that you can't simply say rail staff know more about the railway than trainspotters, when trainspotters know some things that a lot of rail staff do not know. I'm both so I should know.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Enthusiasts may have greater knowledge of the railway as a whole, but in specific areas staff often know more. I guess you could see it as though the enthusiasts are the 'jack of all trades' while staff are often the 'master of one'.

 

[Beveridges]

Enthusiasts may have greater knowledge of the railway as a whole, but in specific areas staff often know more. I guess you could see it as though the enthusiasts are the 'jack of all trades' while staff are often the 'master of one'.

I think that more or less sums it up well

 

[cuccir]

Enthusiasts may have greater knowledge of the railway as a whole, but in specific areas staff often know more. I guess you could see it as though the enthusiasts are the 'jack of all trades' while staff are often the 'master of one'.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that.

Many enthusiasts will have very extensive knowledge precisely because they don't have an obligation to know about other things. A 'train-spotting' enthusiast may know about every class of train under the sun, and the routes they are used on, but doesn't need to know anything about ticketing, health and safety, the geography of railways. By contrast, a member of staff in a generalist job such as a guard doesn't need to know about stock on other TOCs, but does need a decent knowledge of geography, ticketing, health and safety, 'interpersonal skills' etc. An enthusiast has the luxury of only engaging with the bits that they are interested in! On the other hand, some staff with very specific roles (most obviously drivers/engineers) will have access to a wealth of information not available to non-rail people, and don't require any particular knowledge of certain areas (Eg ticketing).

In other words, I think it will vary from enthusiast to enthusiast, employee to employee, and job to job.

I'm reminded of an interview I heard last week with Metallica. They were saying that when they make a decision to play an older song on tour, they have to relearn it, often going onto Youtube to watch videos of fans playing their work. They have to learn it back again from enthusiasts! I think in any field with fans/enthusiasts, there'll be specific bits of information that they know better than the practitioners, but only because they don't have to focus on the wider picture.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Many enthusiasts will have very extensive knowledge precisely because they don't have an obligation to know about other things. A 'train-spotting' enthusiast may know about every class of train under the sun, and the routes they are used on, but doesn't need to know anything about ticketing, health and safety, the geography of railways..... An enthusiast has the luxury of only engaging with the bits that they are interested in!....

Yes exactly, they pick up bits of information, 'this, that and the other' as it were, without a concentrated knowledge of one area. 'Jack of all trades'.

....By contrast, a member of staff in a generalist job such as a guard doesn't need to know about stock on other TOCs, but does need a decent knowledge of geography, ticketing, health and safety, 'interpersonal skills' etc........ some staff with very specific roles (most obviously drivers/engineers) will have access to a wealth of information not available to non-rail people, and don't require any particular knowledge of certain areas (Eg ticketing).....

Indeed, they concentrate on the area(s) they need to know about, putting to one side most, if not all, of the rest. 'Master of one'.

....In other words, I think it will vary from enthusiast to enthusiast, employee to employee, and job to job....

Obviously yes, everyone is different. Each of us can only really say of ourselves and of the 'average' person as we perceive them.

 

[muttynut]

To be fair, there are still 37s in service on the national network (DRS and DBS use them) so it's not exactly obsolete knowledge.

Also they're fitting a few with ETRMS for use on the Cambrian.

its ertms to be correct