How fast do trains travel in the UK?

[hougtimo]

Mother is convinced 125s average 125 with a top speed of 240.

I'm sure this isn't right.

125mph is the maximum, right?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes 125mph is the maximum in the UK, except the 395s on HS1 do 140mph ( and yes they do run at that speed day in day out; it's a myth that they are restricted to 125mph ).

From a pedantic point of view, the Eurostars do reach their full 186mph on HS1, but that doesn't count as they are not able to be used for domestic travel.

 

[hougtimo]

Thanks

 

[LexyBoy]

From a pedantic point of view, the Eurostars do reach their full 186mph on HS1, but that doesn't count as they are not able to be used for domestic travel.

Not wishing to out-pedant the pedant, the OP asked how fast trains travel in the UK, not how fast trains running domestic services travel

 

[MK Tom]

The 240 figure may be a confusion with 'Intercity 225', in other words the class 91 hauled sets used on the East Coast Main Line. Unlike the 125s the 225s get their name from their design speed in km/h, which translates as 140mph, a speed they never reach in traffic. Likewise the Pendolinos are capable of 140mph but the highest speed they reach in service is 125.

 

[LE Greys]

OK:

• The British record is 208 mph, held by a Regional Eurostar formation somewhere on HS1
• The fastest service speed is 186 mph, also on HS1
• An APT once did 162 mph down Beattock, but they were intended for a top service speed of 125
• The loco-hauled (or rather loco-shoved) record is 161 mph, by a brand-new Electra down Stoke Bank
• The world electro-diesel record is 154 mph, by an ECML hybrid set, with an HST power car on the front and an Electra on the rear
• The world diesel record was a 2+5 HST at 148 mph between York and Northallerton when testing the bogies for the MkIV coach
• The world's fastest diesel carrying passengers was in the same place on a press run, and did 144 mph
• 91001 (as she was) once hauled a train of five coaches to Edinburgh in 3 hrs 30 on a press run, hitting 140 mph several times
• 129 mph is my personal domestic speed record, on 390047 between Acton Bridge and Winsford on the 3 hr 55 min Glasgow-London record attempt
• 4468 Mallard holds the world steam speed record at 126 mph
• 125 mph is the standard maximum speed, although both Electras and Pendys could do 140 in service if the signalling allowed
• Non-tilt West Coast expresses can do 110 mph
• 100 mph is normal for outer-suburban and secondary main lines, was normal for expresses up to the 1970s, and sometimes was achieved by steam-hauled expresses in service
• 90 mph is normal for some regional expresses and semi-fasts, about normal for steam-hauled expresses, plus the fastest (Class 3) freights
• 75 mph is normal for inner-suburban and some regional stopping trains, plus Class 4 freights
• 60 mph is about the lowest maximum for any modern passenger train, including the quicker bits of the Tube and [EDIT] Class 6 freights (class 5, as pointed out below is ECS)
• 45 mph is about average for the Tube and the maximum for Class 7 freights [/EDIT]
• 35 mph is about as slow as you can go practically on a main line, so that's the speed for Class 8 freights
• 25 mph is the Light Railway Order speed limit, which is why preserved lines never go faster than this.

I might need to amend this a little, but all speed are maxima, not average. The fastest domestic service average is 108 mph for some trains from London to Newark, but I don't know which ones.

 

[Hydro]

OK:

• 60 mph is about the lowest maximum for any modern passenger train, including the quicker bits of the Tube and Class 5 freights
• 50 mph is the maximum for Class 6 freights
• 40 mph is quite low for the Tube and the maximum for Class 7 freights
  .

There are no Class 5 freights. Class 5 is Empty Coaching Stock, and thus can run to the maximum speed of that stock.

Class 6 freight is maximum 60mph. Class 7 is maximum, or timed for, 45mph.

 

[driver9000]

Class 6 freight are 60 mph maximum.
Class 7 freight are 45mph maximum.

What is a class 5 freight? Class 5 is Empty Coaching Stock, not freight.

Hydro beat my post - damn slow internet connection!

 

[LE Greys]

There are no Class 5 freights. Class 5 is Empty Coaching Stock, and thus can run to the maximum speed of that stock.

Class 6 freight is maximum 60mph. Class 7 is maximum, or timed for, 45mph.

Class 6 freight are 60 mph maximum.
Class 7 freight are 45mph maximum.

What is a class 5 freight? Class 5 is Empty Coaching Stock, not freight.

Hydro beat my post - damn slow internet connection!

<smacks forehead>

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The fastest domestic service average is 108 mph for some trains from London to Newark, but I don't know which ones.

The Kings Cross - Edinburgh trains are timetabled to do the 120 miles between London and Newark in 73 minutes. Without counting, it seems there are about a dozen a day. That is an average of 98.5mph, all of those trains stop at Peterborough.

The 20:07 London Euston - Liverpool train does the 97 miles to Nuneaton in 55 minutes. That is an average speed of 106mph

 

[LE Greys]

The Kings Cross - Edinburgh trains are timetabled to do the 120 miles between London and Newark in 73 minutes. Without counting, it seems there are about a dozen a day. That is an average of 98.5mph, all of those trains stop at Peterborough.

The 20:07 London Euston - Liverpool train does the 97 miles to Nuneaton in 55 minutes. That is an average speed of 106mph

I can't remember whether it's Newark or Retford, but it's a Hull Trains service that does not stop at Peterborough.

 

[moonrakerz]

Another one for your list (Not many people know this !!)


In Jun 1979 an HST ran from Paddington to Chippenham, on a normal timetabled run, in 50 mins and 31 secs. This was an average speed of 111.7 mph, which was 5 mph faster than the much vaunted (by the UK media) Japanese "bullet" trains - the HST's effort was largely ignored in the UK media. No special "conditions" were set up in advance other than having Inspectors riding in the cabs of the train in question and the two preceding it down the main line. All speed limits were obeyed.
This record stood for many years.

It was later reported that the passengers were a bit disgruntled when the train sat at Chippenham for a quarter of an hour to "catch up" with the timetable.

The bullet trains now do 170 mph, whilst there is now no non-stop service to Chippenham any more. The fastest services are now 68 mins (down) and 64 mins (up).

..............and we call that progress..........:cry:

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I can't remember whether it's Newark or Retford, but it's a Hull Trains service that does not stop at Peterborough.

Here we go: Hull Trains website.

Its the 07:20 Kings Cross to Hull. It stops at Stevenage and Grantham, but averages a rather spectacular 111mph on the 77 mile stretch between Stevenage and Grantham. Must be a real boon for all those commuters who travel from Stevenage to Grantham!

 

[Badger]

Interesting addition to your list - 22mph is the average operating speed speed of the Midland Metro. Just kinda puts it into perspective... oh dear.

 

[sprinterguy]

[*]The world electro-diesel record is 154 mph, by an ECML hybrid set, with an HST power car on the front and an Electra on the rear

There's been two 154mph runs then? The fastest passenger carrying run of an IC225 was 154mph, which occured on a press run in either 1994 or 1995 (I think it was '95) down Stoke Bank. I remember reading about it in RAIL Magazine, it was 91031 with a shortened five carriage mark 4 rake and a DVT (82231 I think).

I believe that it was 91010 that set the 161mph record.

As for the APT, the APT-P trains were designed for running at up to 155mph, but it was decided quite early on in their operational lives (By 1981) that this was not realistic when signalling constraints and the limited economic and time benefit this would bring over 125mph operation were considered, and as such the APT project was "descoped" to a 125mph maximum.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 20:07 London Euston - Liverpool train does the 97 miles to Nuneaton in 55 minutes. That is an average speed of 106mph

On the xx40 Euston-Manchesters which are first stop Crewe, I usually check where we are after exactly an hour, and on a good day it is just short of the River Tone bridge north of Tamworth on the TV4 section - this is 112 miles from Euston.
Average speed peaks at Rugeley because of the restrictions below 125mph through Colwich-Stafford-Norton Bridge.

 

[Pumbaa]

I think the Euston - Staffords average 105mph every hour on the Liverpool service or thereabouts (when non-stop).

 

[cambsy]

pendolinos can get to just about 128mph before overspeed braking happens due to TASS,most 125mph trains can get to 127-128mph,the 225's unofficially used to do 135-140mph on service trains in 90's,but now are 125mph

 

[LE Greys]

There's been two 154mph runs then? The fastest passenger carrying run of an IC225 was 154mph, which occured on a press run in either 1994 or 1995 (I think it was '95) down Stoke Bank. I remember reading about it in RAIL Magazine, it was 91031 with a shortened five carriage mark 4 rake and a DVT (82231 I think).

I believe that it was 91010 that set the 161mph record.

As for the APT, the APT-P trains were designed for running at up to 155mph, but it was decided quite early on in their operational lives (By 1981) that this was not realistic when signalling constraints and the limited economic and time benefit this would bring over 125mph operation were considered, and as such the APT project was "descoped" to a 125mph maximum.

The point it that the hybrid was under diesel power as well, adding an extra 2,250 horsepower boost to the straight-electric 6,300. Interesting that APT-P was slowed down as well, and that it could do 125 with virtually no track improvements. I wonder what APT-E could do . . .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

pendolinos can get to just about 128mph before overspeed braking happens due to TASS,most 125mph trains can get to 127-128mph,the 225's unofficially used to do 135-140mph on service trains in 90's,but now are 125mph

Interesting. I've heard rumours about that, but never anything solid.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

pendolinos can get to just about 128mph before overspeed braking happens due to TASS,most 125mph trains can get to 127-128mph,the 225's unofficially used to do 135-140mph on service trains in 90's,but now are 125mph

a) 225s never did that speed in passenger service
b) I believe the 390 limit is 126.5mph before TASS

 

[sprinterguy]

I wonder what APT-E could do . . .

It got above 140mph a few times. The fastest the APT-E achieved was 152mph on the GWML on 10th August 1975, and it managed 143.6mph at Old Dalby. http://www.old-dalby.com/apt-e.htm

 

[driver9000]

TASS gives a warning around 126mph before giving a brake application around 128mph.

 

[LE Greys]

It got above 140mph a few times. The fastest the APT-E achieved was 152mph on the GWML on 10th August 1975, and it managed 143.6mph at Old Dalby. http://www.old-dalby.com/apt-e.htm

Interesting site, thanks.

BTW, something else I've always wondered. Where were the doors?

 

[brad465]

Is it possible to have cab signalling and colour signalling on the same line?, which if possible would allow 140mph on mainlines where trains can reach this.

 

[sprinterguy]

Interesting site, thanks.

BTW, something else I've always wondered. Where were the doors?

That's something that I wondered for ages as well. It turns out that they were in the articulated section above the bogies, as shown by this picture:
http://www.old-dalby.com/images/articulation.jpg

You can't tell that they're there at all from most photos!

 

[LE Greys]

That's something that I wondered for ages as well. It turns out that they were in the articulated section above the bogies, as shown by this picture:
http://www.old-dalby.com/images/articulation.jpg

You can't tell that they're there at all from most photos!

That's a remarkable design, very curious. Surely stopping on a curve would present problems, but having an articulated rake would cut down on that.

 

[route:oxford]

It was later reported that the passengers were a bit disgruntled when the train sat at Chippenham for a quarter of an hour to "catch up" with the timetable.

That's always the worst part.

Hopefully once Reading is complete waiting for a platform will happen less often, but for the moment, when a Voyager gets the fasts between Diddyland and Reading - it absolutely flies then you are left sitting for 10 minutes whilst the rest of the world catches up.

I'm sure a I've been on a Voyager that has done Oxford-Reading in 18 minutes - but my memory may have dimmed with the passage of time.

 

[Butts]

It got above 140mph a few times. The fastest the APT-E achieved was 152mph on the GWML on 10th August 1975, and it managed 143.6mph at Old Dalby. http://www.old-dalby.com/apt-e.htm

So 35 years later no progress has been made apart from limited bits of the HS1 - quite a sad indictment.

Similar to Air Travel with the demise of Concorde.

We seem to be going backwards for the first time in recorded history.

Imagine if the motor car was as slow as it was 35 years ago

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It depends on what you define as progress. Top speed isnt really the be all and end all here, the frequency of trains has increased hugely in recent years which is pretty important too.

 

[Butts]

It depends on what you define as progress. Top speed isnt really the be all and end all here, the frequency of trains has increased hugely in recent years which is pretty important too.

True but unfortunately so has the overcrowding in peak times - Rail Travel remains a pleasure outside of these times.