How easy is it to fare dodge?

[Chris225]

Currently on a VTEC train to Kings cross, got on at Edinburgh and just left Newcastle, no tickets have been checked so far...

 

[swt class 450]

And even if they do websites typically do not allow buying a ticket for a travel date and time in the past.
Or at least I think this is not possible?

Yes you are correct. I think the only way to buy a ticket for travel in the past is to contact the TOC. I highly doubt many people do this.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

A revenue protection officer once said to me "we only have to get lucky once, someone bunking the fare has to be lucky every single time.

So Im reading this and people are bemoaning fare dodgers yet they day nothing to the duty train crew. As I have said countless times on here before We cannot do anything about it if we dont know about it, sp speak ip and tell us!

As for checking toilets, if I see an occupied toilet Ill keep an eye on it and see who comes out

As for how easy it is, well people have figured out how to remove sharpie markings off a ticket. Standard opens being reused over and over again, barriered stations having obvious weakspots or unmanned, people keeping their heads ducked down when the question "tickets from....." is asked. Tickets being sold on eBay.....

 

[The Ham]

I once saw a guard who caught a fare evader who had been hanging out in the toilet (had got out on the approach to the station they were wanting go to when the guard came back to that coach to release the doors and asked for tickets) charge the guy for a ticket for a much shorter trip than the guy had been on the train for. His reasoning was that he'd much rather get something than have an argument with the guy, especially as the guy was really annoyed about having to pay anything and that was probably more of a punishment than having to pay the right amount. Even though he knew the guy was lying about when he joined the train.

 

[450.emu]

I've found it easy, I just stay in the toilet from Waterloo to Syon Lane and play a YouTube video of someone drunkenly vomiting loudly on my phone. Works every time

Seriously though some stations don't help themselves, as even in London, there are quite a few stations with no ticket gates, or if there are gates, these are left locked in the open position and switched off (lots of stations are unmanned), but occasionally Revenue Teams with Police would descend on trouble hotspots (Edmonton Green used to be one) and catch dodgers out

 

[SF-02]

It's relatively easy to fare dodge. It's also just as easy (if not easier) to walk out of a supermarket or restaurant without paying..

Well a shop will always have staff. On some trains there's no staff on board and none at many stations, so its much easier and perhaps some doing it don't feel the same morals due to that.

 

[Zxwii]

And even if they do websites typically do not allow buying a ticket for a travel date and time in the past.
Or at least I think this is not possible?

Just buy a ticket for the journey at the same time on a different day and don't use it! You've paid a fare!

 

[Kite159]

Quite hard for me as the guards on the 159s are very excellent at checking tickets, you might get the odd dodger travelling between the villages. The fast running section between Basingstoke & Woking (and Woking to Clapham/Waterloo) means the guard normally does a good check.

 

[Peter0124]

Quite easy on the greater Glasgow network as most of the stations are close to eachother and there is barely any staff onboard.

 

[al78]

A revenue protection officer once said to me "we only have to get lucky once, someone bunking the fare has to be lucky every single time.

Not really. If someone dodges fares 100 times and gets away with it 99 times they will likely still be in profit compared to paying the fare. In order to deter, the probability of getting caught and the cost of getting caught has to be high enough, otherwise it is like speeding in that loads of people do it every day and get away with it all the time because on most roads there are no traffic police or speed cameras.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Probably easy to do on Southern due to the guard's dispute But I remember RPIs springing up a lot on TL, especially on the Sutton-St Albans trains where most of them would get on at Elephant & Castle. Hardly see them now

 

[6Gman]

Not really. If someone dodges fares 100 times and gets away with it 99 times they will likely still be in profit compared to paying the fare.

Unless they're law students with a desire to travel to the USA, in which case they'll be on here sharpish!

 

[Chrisgr31]

Well you could look at those commuters that have been caught this year on South Eastern and which ever other TOC it was, caught eventually, careers ruined.

However Southern have I believe converted all their RPIs to OBS, latter are meant to improve customer service hmm!

 

[fowler9]

A revenue protection officer once said to me "we only have to get lucky once, someone bunking the fare has to be lucky every single time.

So Im reading this and people are bemoaning fare dodgers yet they day nothing to the duty train crew. As I have said countless times on here before We cannot do anything about it if we dont know about it, sp speak ip and tell us!

As for checking toilets, if I see an occupied toilet Ill keep an eye on it and see who comes out

As for how easy it is, well people have figured out how to remove sharpie markings off a ticket. Standard opens being reused over and over again, barriered stations having obvious weakspots or unmanned, people keeping their heads ducked down when the question "tickets from....." is asked. Tickets being sold on eBay.....

Ha ha ha. Did the Revenue Protection Officer think he was in the Marines or something? Someone bunking on doesn't have to be lucky every time, just most of the time, and they probably will be. The Revenue Protection Officer does have to get everyone every time otherwise they have missed someone bunking on. What an idiotic statement.

 

[Holly]

And even if they do websites typically do not allow buying a ticket for a travel date and time in the past.
Or at least I think this is not possible?

Just buy a ticket for the journey at the same time on a different day and don't use it! You've paid a fare!

You missed the context of "What should an honest person do"
And from other posts, indeed the correct answer is to write to the TOC to enquire as to the fare and offer to pay by return of cheque.

 

[Requeststop]

From what I have witnessed, it is all too easy for fare dodgers all over the country. From long distances to just passing through 3-4 stations.

Potentially, I could have travelled a few times from Paddington to Truro recently without paying a fare or having my ticket checked. Gates at Paddington opened so late that staff open the barriers to let passengers through to get on the trains without delaying the journey, and arrival in Truro with again the barriers open and staff not doing any checks.

Over the last few years, I have had five all line rover tickets brought as an overseas resident. All I do is show the pass at the barriers and I am more or less nodded through with just a glance at the ticket. The same on the train when inspected. I have only once been asked to prove identity which indeed, I carry with me at all times.

Even travelling on a sleeper, the ticket is glanced at, though the berth ticket is scrutinised.

My experience by watching the system at work is that many millions are lost due to a lack of diligence by TOC staff, or indeed just lack of them in general.

 

[sheff1]

Seriously though some stations don't help themselves, as even in London, there are quite a few stations with no ticket gates, or if there are gates, these are left locked in the open position and switched off (lots of stations are unmanned)

We are often assured on here that most stations in the London area are barriered and so fare dodging is much harder than 'up North', but my experience ties in with yours. Many stations which are far, far busier than those 'up North' have no ticket barriers and either no, or closed, booking offices. Many of the trains are DOO and, on those which aren't, I have rarely seen guards checking tickets. I know many people will have Oyster but many do not, as is obvious by the tailgating and about-turning which occurs when they suddenly encounter unexpectedly closed gates. In other large cities where ticket gates are a feature (e.g. Paris) it seems that they are far more ubiquitous - the problem there is to find someone to help if the gate malfunctions.

In the wider South East area, many DOO and non-commercial guard trains operate long distances serving stations where the travel flows between them is much higher than similar length journeys elsewhere in the UK where the trains almost invariably have commercial guards (although some of them might not seem to be to the uninformed !)

 

[jkkne]

Most TPE services I regularly use are full of them. It's an ongoing joke. Most even travel in First because TPE only ever ticket check at departing station (since it's normally so packed that the Guard just doesn't appear - including letting the automated announcement take over.)

 

[tsangpogorge]

Question for any ticket inspectors here, what would you do if the fare dodger was some 200lb rugby player and he/she threatened to bash your head in?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Things are also far too easy for the aggressive avoider - who simply power past RPIs/RPAs and away from the situation. There needs to be more support to ensure that people who do evade fares are caught, or their identity is verified before they are allowed to leave.

However, there also needs to be the recognition that sometimes the railway gets it wrong and those passengers who do provide their details are allowed to continue their journey with minimum delay and any irregularities corrected later.

Question for any ticket inspectors here, what would you do if the fare dodger was some 200lb rugby player and he/she threatened to bash your head in?

I refer you back to my post. I wouldn't expect the staff to do anything - there needs to be more immediate support on demand.

 

[sheff1]

Question for any ticket inspectors here, what would you do if the fare dodger was some 200lb rugby player and he/she threatened to bash your head in?

I would like to hear an answer from a TI in countries where they are armed, or accompanied by armed personnel. The Belgian Kusttram springs to mind.

 

[Dr_Paul]

... even in London, there are quite a few stations with no ticket gates, or if there are gates, these are left locked in the open position and switched off (lots of stations are unmanned)...

Even some of the busier stations out of Waterloo are unmanned, or at least nobody at the ticket gates, from mid-evening onwards, such as Surbiton, Kingston, Richmond. Several -- Fulwell, Teddington, Strawberry Hill, Mortlake, to mention just some I've been to -- don't seem to have anyone there during the late morning or mid-afternoon either. It's possible that their gates are only manned during the rush-hour.

Only once in the 20 months I've had my Old Codger's Oyster Card have I had it checked by a ticket inspector on a train, on a diverted Reading to Waterloo service via Kingston.

 

[DriverXYD]

See it constantly in the north clyde area about Glasgow all the time due to the open stations policy & folks reluctence to buy a ticket, I've seen parents & even grandparents show the kid/s how to skip the fare by either hiding in the toilets or by jumping out one door & running the length of the train to avoid the ticket examiner before jumping back aboard, then theres Scotrails TPI policy (train platform interface) & the rules of working DOO to contend with, so we cant just close the doors on them refusing them travel, then you see them jumping off at their stops & walking straight through the station fare free & it boils my blood

 

[al78]

Question for any ticket inspectors here, what would you do if the fare dodger was some 200lb rugby player and he/she threatened to bash your head in?

This is the problem, against an aggressive thug you can do nothing, and they get away with it, again, again, again and again, which is why they do it, because they can and they gain without any loss to themselves.

In an ideal world, you would call his bluff, pointing out that if he does attack, you will defend yourself and do whatever it takes to subdue him, and depending on whether he wins or loses the fight he will end up either in hospital or a police cell, then ask him if it is really worth it.

 

[CheekyBandit]

Travel between Peterborough and Huntingdon or St Neots - don't recall ever having my tickets checked in either direction. Ticket barriers often found open.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

In my experience, Newport's barriers are staffed from around 6.00am Monday to Friday for much of the day until around 6.00pm.

However, there are times when the barriers aren't staffed from earlier in the day. There are also others where the rear entrance isn't staffed but the front entrance is - something I've never understood! On Saturdays, the staffing is much the same, but they're often not staffed at all on Sundays.

Quite a few people (and I've done it) use the footbridge as a short cut from one side to the other if they see that the barriers are open. These people don't mean to travel, and they don't, but it can be a long way round using the roads. If I was going to travel, I would buy a ticket from the machine - or from the ticket office if it was open.

Cardiff Central is much the same as Newport, although the end time is, I think, 8.00pm. If there's an event on in the city, the gates are normally staffed until gone midnight. The same seems to happen without an event on Friday and Saturday.

I don't know what happens at Queen Street, but it's probably pretty easy to get a train at Cathays and most of the Cardiff Valleys lines stations most times and travel to Central to change for a main line station.

 

[dangie]

London Midland did a bit of a clamp down a couple of weeks ago on the Chase Line but I suspect it'll only be temporary or until Christmas when the seasonal Amazon workers in Rugeley are no longer required.

Chase Line Fair Dodgers

 

[rebelrouser]

In Slough magistrates court last week six fare evaders were fined an average £500 on fares less than a fiver,at least this many are fined on a regular basis every month.so it looks like GWR take it seriously

 

[Deepgreen]

GTR have completely given up ticket checking on trains, whether officially or unofficially. The guards can't be bothered, and the OBSs likewise, or don't have the confidence to do it. First class is a free-for-all, and many TOCs assist by making first class so poorly-labelled and poorly-appointed that it is open to deliberate or accidental abuse.

Ticket gates all need people to staff them, so are flung open when staff are absent (at Redhill, for example, the gate line is open for long periods in the peaks). I have also seen security staff (external employees) staffing the gates at Redhill, who won't have a clue about ticket validity and will just let anyone through.

Robust revenue collection appears to have taken secondary importance these days in many areas.
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In Slough magistrates court last week six fare evaders were fined an average £500 on fares less than a fiver,at least this many are fined on a regular basis every month.so it looks like GWR take it seriously

GWR operates the North Downs line, and in well over four years of twice-daily use, I have only seen TTIs twice on the route. On the second occasion they took a youth off the train at Reigate (he travelled daily to Redhill and sat in first class without any ticket, let alone first) and he refused to pay or give any details, and simply walked away off the platform ramp onto the level crossing! Pointless.

 

[jon0844]

GTR does still do the odd check on GN, and I was pleased to see Hatfield gates still in operation at gone midnight (and I believe this is quite a regular thing now).

When there's disruption, or a lot of cancelled trains (due to staff shortages) then revenue duties tend to end and they adopt a customer service role.