how early is acceptable to board train

[truckman060473]

some more info : after he was told this he was a bit peturbed and actually left the train and walked up the platform and got back on next to the buffet car and sat down in the coach, where a different cleaner was working and he simply got on with the task of collecting rubbish passing his seat with no snappy comment made.

 

[EM2]

I noticed in the OP it says the HST was 'obviously in service'. I'm intrigued as to how you can tell. Just because the lights are on, the doors are open and the engines are running doesn't necessarily mean it's in service. For example, fitters could be working on it. I wonder if it had a 'Not To Be Moved' board on it?

AFAIC, a train should not be boarded at the start of the journey unless the departure boards and/or announcements have said so.

 

[truckman060473]

and i've also said that a similar FGW service at Carmarthen on Sundays had the doors locked until 15m before departure. if this is the procedure that is carried out by this operator on these trains, then shouldn't it have been done at Swansea on this occasion?

 

[EM2]

Not necessarily. The Camarthen set may have been locked out for a different reason, rather than just being prepped.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Yorkie, I find when I go to Preserved Railways and they find you work on the regular Railway,their attitude changes for the worst. Its as such you're a threat to their perfect world. Sometimes we get accused of running the railway not to suit the passengers, but as for some of them..

of the preserved railways I've been to mentioning I work on the railway i've always been given a warm welcome and people are happy to talk show me around etc?

 

[Nick W]

But if they want to actually clean surfaces etc then obviously it's better that no-one is on board, and I don't think moving people from one coach to another is practical due to the time taken to do so.

Perhaps, but I note that at various eateries (very occasionally restaurants) it's common to be sat down at a table that hasn't been cleaned for it then to be cleaned while you're still sitting there.

 

[Tom B]

Most of the time yes, and on Railtours and some IC services people come round with bin liners during the journey and their job is usually made a lot easier by people actually handing them items to be disposed of (usually with a "thanks" too). But if they want to actually clean surfaces etc then obviously it's better that no-one is on board, and I don't think moving people from one coach to another is practical due to the time taken to do so.

Being a relatively regular traveler on East Coast services I refuse to believe any of the coaches are actually "cleaned". I can just about understand use of the term "big bits of litter picked up", but given the state of some of the vehicles it appears anything not immediately within view is ignored.

Indeed, I recall once asking the cleaner if the toilet at the end of the carriage could be looked at since it smelt disgusting - the reply being "I no clean toilet".

 

[Sea_Wall]

Always a sight to behold people, 25 minutes before departure time trying to open the doors of 159 SWT at Plymouth. Shame they moved up North

 

[ralphchadkirk]

some more info : after he was told this he was a bit peturbed and actually left the train and walked up the platform and got back on next to the buffet car and sat down in the coach, where a different cleaner was working and he simply got on with the task of collecting rubbish passing his seat with no snappy comment made.

This is just starting to seem more and more like hyperbole when you say "some more info" and coincidentally he got on and was allowed to stay before being kicked off - none of which was originally mentioned in the first post.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed, I recall once asking the cleaner if the toilet at the end of the carriage could be looked at since it smelt disgusting - the reply being "I no clean toilet".

To be fair, the person sent through with a clear bin bag to empty bins SHOULDN'T be cleaning a toilet. Those people have a trolley with cleaning materials and wear protective gear as necessary. You might as well ask the driver!

The question is, where were the people who can clean the toilets and use the necessary chemicals? On many turnarounds, they only put the person with bin bags on - meaning toilets are not cleaned, emptied and go back out being out of service.

 

[truckman060473]

This is just starting to seem more and more like hyperbole when you say "some more info" and coincidentally he got on and was allowed to stay before being kicked off - none of which was originally mentioned in the first post.

you're the one mixed up here ralphchadkirk. he did not sit down and then get kicked off. you have assumed this in the wrong order. the 1st cleaner he encountered said about "not being able to sit there" and he then left the train and walked up to the buffet coach where he sat in the nearest seat to the buffet counter and the 2nd cleaner who hadn't passed his seat yet, picking up litter in a plastic bag just carried on doing his job without saying anything about moving or "can't sit there it ain't been cleaned"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

none of which was originally mentioned in the first post.

it wasn't mentioned in the first post because i needed to speak to the person it happened to for more information

 

[ralphchadkirk]

You must have spoken to your "friend" three times now for more information, and the story changes each time.
First this:

A friend recently boarded a HST in Swansea at 12.00 and it was due out 12.28. The train was clearly in service and at the platform with most of the doors open. One of the train presentation staff told him abruptly "hey mate you can't sit there, it ain't been cleaned yet"

Then this: (story changes to also blaming the cleaner for not moving out of his way)

boarded train and walked up the coach aisle where the cleaner was walking through with the large polythene rubbish bag. came up behind him and he knew full well i was standing there waiting to pass. he said nothing until he had reached the vestibule (i was walking up coach to be closer to buffet) and when he eventually moved his bag from my path to pass him, it was then he decided to say the exact words in the opening post.

And now this: (where the story changes again, and now a different cleaner says nothing)

after he was told this he was a bit peturbed and actually left the train and walked up the platform and got back on next to the buffet car and sat down in the coach, where a different cleaner was working and he simply got on with the task of collecting rubbish passing his seat with no snappy comment made.

Is it just me who wonders why the whole story couldn't be revealed the first time he spoke to his friend?

 

[Capybara]

I caught an HST from Leeds to London yesterday and it was in the platform a good 40 minutes before departure with the doors open. Furthermore it was advertised, with the platform, on the main information screen. The information screen on the platform also indicated it was the 9:40 to King's Cross but carried the strap: 'please do not board the train as it is being cleaned and reserved'.

Fair enough, but there were two points. Firstly how many passengers actually read the small print on the screens? Secondly, it was not being 'reserved', there was someone going through the train putting 'reserved' signs on the backs of seats. Those seats were already 'reserved'. And the seats that remained unmarked had not been 'reserved' and were free for the likes of me with my 'off peak' return ticket. The whole train was not in the process of being 'reserved' at all. 'Prepared' will suffice.

Incidentally, a very large number of reserved seats remained vacant for the entire journey or were taken by travellers who had not reserved them. Oh, and the train arrived 27 minutes early

 

[truckman060473]

i can't understand why you are picking at the threads made. I am only posting what information i've been told and not attempting to contradict myself. I only posted it on the forum after hearing very briefly what had occured. then the huge interest in the topic where people started asking how true the facts were, prompted me to contact my friend to ask him what exactly happened. the story has not changed i have simply asked for more information. i have known my friend for over 20yrs and he certainly isn't the type to "hype up" a situation.

 

[jon0844]

If you boarded before the tickets for reservations were put out, you might find yourself having to move - and by then, you've got other people who were 'lucky' to go into the unreserved ones.

Therefore, I can see why a TOC would want to keep people off and surely they have the right to keep you off, even if the doors are open?

By comparison, FCC will let you board a train and sit on there for over an hour at night when they're down to the last few services! There might still be someone coming through cleaning, but they won't say anything to you - except perhaps giving a smile of appreciation to those who pass items to him/her.

A lot of them speak very poor English, because most English people feel such a job is beneath them, and some may say things that sound abrupt but isn't intentional.

 

[Aictos]

With respect to the East Coast services, the vast majority I go on all have a cleaner on who goes though and empties the bins and collects the rubbish as does Grand Central and FCC on certain morning trains along my route I must stress,

Yes some trains might be dirty with rubbish everywhere but that is simply down to the minority who treat trains as one large rubbish bin.

But back to the topic, I have a 6 car 313 terminate and the screens show the next working which is correct but this 6 car 313 splits so the information only applies to the front 3 coaches only.
Now a passenger might see it advertised and jump on whereas I have to request they wait a few minutes for the shunt to be completed and then they can board.

 

[142094]

Is it compulsory for people to leave a train when a split is happening? I've heard this from time to time but a lot of services I've seen recently, people have been still on the train (although the doors were closed and locked) whilst a service was split.

 

[Aictos]

As far as I know, no passengers are supposed to be on a service when it splits or joins, it doesn't take long for any work to be done so I kindly request they wait as it is not in service until the shunting has finished and the driver has released all the doors.

 

[142094]

Right, it's just that there is often a evening rush service from Leeds and beyond which splits at York, one going to Scarborough and the other to Middlesbrough. All the times I have seen it, the doors are closed and locked and the train is split with passengers still on board. I've been on a few XC services which have also done this.

 

[MCR247]

As far as I know, no passengers are supposed to be on a service when it splits or joins, it doesn't take long for any work to be done so I kindly request they wait as it is not in service until the shunting has finished and the driver has released all the doors.

On a Sunday, SWT run an hourly train from Waterloo to Eastleigh, where it splits with the front 5 to Portsmouth and the rear 5 to Poole. On the way back, I was one the Portsmouth section that arrives first, and they did the join with passengers on board and the doors open in the front unit!

 

[142094]

and they did the join with passengers on board and the doors open in the front unit!

Obviously that could be dangerous if someone is stepping on at the same time. Wonder what the rule book says?

 

[yorkie]

Is it compulsory for people to leave a train when a split is happening? I've heard this from time to time but a lot of services I've seen recently, people have been still on the train (although the doors were closed and locked) whilst a service was split.

No it isn't. Various locations spring to mind including Haywards Heath where this is still done regularly. It would be utterly ridiculous to get everyone off the train while it was split and would fall foul of being called a through journey. Some TOCs may wish to make up their own policy of not allowing it, but it's certainly not a rule.

 

[MCR247]

Obviously that could be dangerous if someone is stepping on at the same time. Wonder what the rule book says?

Why would it be dangerous? The rear set (the one that was moving) had the doors closed, and you couldn't tell they had joined if you were onboard in the front unit :?

 

[142094]

Well you didn't say that in your first post. It would have been dangerous if the one with the doors opened was moving. Even so, sometimes when they join up, the one that isn't moving sometimes is jolted.

 

[MCR247]

Well I thought it was clear as I said the set that arrives first had the doors open, meaning it would be still :?

 

[142094]

I'm not familiar with the working, so I wouldn't know. However I am familiar with the TPE workings, and it is not always the second train which moves to join/uncouple.

 

[AlexS]

Arriva Wales split and join trains all over the place, one I use fairly regularly is the 23summat New Street to Shrewsbury on a Sunday which joins to another unit at Wolverhampton and goes forward as a 4 car set - never been turfed off it for the join.

 

[jon0844]

At Cambridge and King's Cross, people can be on the train but they'll close the doors. The train not moving will definitely be jolted I promise you! Definitely an accident waiting to happen if the doors were left open (that's if they can on all rolling stock) and someone stepped on/off.

Even though they're unlikely to be hurt, that's still a demand for 'compo' in the making, and a nasty letter in the Daily Mail about how bad it COULD have been.

 

[Crossover]

Going back to the OP/thread title, I have joined a service 25 mins or so before departure numerous times at Manchester Picadilly, the xx.15 to Euston
This usually arrives at about .45 and every piles on it. The most I have seen is a guy going through with a bag collecting rubbish but little more than that - I think most of the Pendos on this run get properly cleaned at Euston where they don't let you onto the platform until 10 mins before departure.

I think the TPE services get cleaned at the likes of Scarborough but they are also usually locked out of service as (especially at weekends) they can be hanging arund for over an hour up there so it makes no sense leaving them open.
Saying that I generally find TPE crew go through collecting rubbish where possible, as with Virgins too so rubbish is largely kept to a minimum.

With regards to Plymouth, maybe they should have someone to sort the XC's out - I was waiting for a service to go to Exeter there last summer and a HST from Aberdeen came in terminating 5 or so mins late giving it is a 2-3 minute turnaround. This gave no time for any cleaning (although it wouldn't even if it had arrived on time) so having done a 10 hour journey, it went bak out on a service to Leeds with no water in toilets, rubbish strewn around the carriages and was generally a bit of a mess (understandable after the length of journey, admittedly, but could have done with some maintenance at Plymouth)

 

[jon0844]

Surely you don't EVER turn a service that has been going for 10 hours around without cleaning? Even Ryanair clean a flight with a tight 20 minute turnaround. Okay, not always perfect but usually pretty good - and certainly better than no cleaning. And we're talking about flights of somewhere nearer 2-3 hours, not 10!

The toilets would always be functional too. For a service like that, the toilets should be refilled with water - and emptied sufficiently elsewhere so they'll never get full in service.