How do you value your travel time?

[miklcct]

In transport modelling, passengers' preferences of journeys are modelled by generalized cost (GC) of travel, which includes the actual monetary cost and the value of time (VoT), which is applied by multiplying a rate into the generalised journey time (GJT).

The generalised journey time is formed by applying factors and costs onto various components into the journey, such as access, waiting, transfer, and on board, and the factors are expressed as a factor of in-vehicle time (IVT).

In the past, I used a spreadsheet which I can enter the preferences and routes to calculate the GJT and GC to decide which transport route I will use for my journey, especially when the difference between different routes are small (for example, sometimes the best few options only have a difference of a few pence in the GC, and without detailed calculation down to minute accuracy it is hard to know which one is the best).

Now, there is open source software which can automatically calculate the best available routes according to the input preference, and I'm working on a GB wide multi-model journey planner in my job. All the components mentioned above, and many more can be input as your preference to the software to find the optimal routes, best suited for your preference.

For example, the software allows you to set:
- your walking or cycling speed
- if you want more slack before boarding or after alighting, to avoid tight connections
- how much you want to avoid boarding a transport vehicle (with or without bike), or transfers between transport vehicles (expressed in terms of time per boarding / transfer)
- how much you want to prefer / avoid walking / cycling / driving (expressed as a multiplier of the IVT)
- how much you want to prefer / avoid bus / tram / train / metro / whatever mode of transport (expressed as a multiplier of the IVT)
- How much you want to prefer / avoid walking slopes / stairs / taking lifts / etc. (the configuration is really that detailed)
- The balance between time / safety / flatness on your bike

I have my own preferences on the above items and I am interested in others' view, particularly about car users in their driving reluctance. My preferences are follows:

- access mode reluctances:
Walk: 1.25
Bike: 1.5
Car: 2.0
Walking with a bike: 2.0

Which means for a journey which takes 30 minutes on public transport, door to door without waiting, I will only walk, cycle or drive it if the time required is less than 24 minutes walk, 20 minutes cycle, or 15 minutes drive, before taking monetary cost into consideration.

- transit modes reluctances:
Train: 0.95
Metro: 0.98
Tram: 1
Bus: 1.1

Which means that if a tram journey takes 95 minutes, I'm happy to take a train if it takes less than 100 minutes between the same places if they depart at the same time, as I value 1 minute on a train as the same as 0.95 minutes on a transit vehicle in general.

- waiting reluctance: 1.1

If I face a 10-minute wait for a tram which will arrive my destination in 1 minute, and another tram which departs immediately and goes to my destination as well, I'll only board that tram if it takes less than 12 minutes (as I value 10 minutes waiting time as 11 minutes in a tram).

- boarding cost: 2 minutes
- boarding with a bike cost: 5 minutes (instead of 2)

If I'm already on a tram which can go to my destination, and there is an opportunity to transfer to another tram with a faster route for my destination which departs immediately, I'll change to it if it can save me at least 2 minutes for my destination.

And finally my value of time used in evaluation:
- Weekdays: £9 / hour IVT
- Weekends: £6 / hour IVT

Taking the above, let me use some examples for calculation, assuming it's a choice between using a car and using public transport:
Car: 60 minutes drive, door to door
Public transport: walk 10 minutes, wait 2 minutes, take tube 12 minutes, walk 8 minutes, wait 10 minutes, take train 44 minutes, walk 2 minutes, wait 10 minutes, take bus 7 minutes, walk 3 minutes to the destination. (total 108 minutes)

Applying the above numbers, both the car GJT and public transport GJT are the same, 120 minutes for me, so I'll pick on the basis of monetary cost.

However, if I can remove the feeder journeys and bring my cycle onto the train in the following form:
- Cycle 20 minutes
- Walk 3 minutes with my bike to the platform
- Wait 2 minutes (the slack I use for boarding a scheduled service on a flexible ticket - I aim to arrive the stop 2 minutes before the departure time)
- Take train 44 minutes
- Cycle 10 minutes to my destination
(Total 79 minutes in real-world time)
The total GJT will become 97 minutes only, a 23 minutes saving against the car despite the journey being 19 minutes longer, and the car cost needs to be £2.30 cheaper than the train fare (as the cost of cycling is negligible) for me to use a car in this case on a weekend.

I'm interested in others' valuation on the above, including the numbers used to work out which option you will choose.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't stick a value on my travel time; I go where I want to by the means I want to - simple as that...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't place a specific value on my time. It's more a psychological value - I enjoy train travel, but sometimes it's better to take the car (e.g. if travelling very late in the day or having a lot of stuff with me), though if I'm going to be tired back to train and so on.

 

[AlterEgo]

Most people do not consciously use metrics like this to decide how or where to travel. If the metrics exist, they are unknown and buried in peoples' subconscious and entirely variable depending on any number of factors.

 

[Magdalia]

I have various issues with this approach. It looks to me like a model being constructed because it is possible not because it is useful. Also, like many such models there is a big risk of garbage in garbage out.

I have my own preferences on the above items and I am interested in others' view, particularly about car users in their driving reluctance. My preferences are follows:

- access mode reluctances:
Walk: 1.25
Bike: 1.5
Car: 2.0
Walking with a bike: 2.0

Which means for a journey which takes 30 minutes on public transport, door to door without waiting, I will only walk, cycle or drive it if the time required is less than 24 minutes walk, 20 minutes cycle, or 15 minutes drive, before taking monetary cost into consideration.

- transit modes reluctances:
Train: 0.95
Metro: 0.98
Tram: 1
Bus: 1.1

Despite the explanation I still have no understanding of what these parameters are proposed to represent. How have they been measured, or are they just numbers plucked out of the air to drive the model? In either case, what sensitivity analysis has been done to find out how robust the models results are to changes in these parameters? For example, the empirical evidence in Cambridge is that journeys by cycling are much reduced when it is raining, how does your model deal with that?

From my own perspective, the model fails to capture many aspects of my decision making. The discussion title is about time. For me journey time is not about "time is money" value at all, and the relationship between time taken and how or whether I will make the journey is not linear. For journeys up to about 3 hours I'm not greatly bothered how long it takes, providing that I can sit and read during the journey and that there is an opportunity for a short break. Once the journey time goes over 3 hours my propensity to make the journey at all falls off a cliff, for health reasons. Another example is that I'm quite happy to make a longer journey if it avoids stairs.

Your model also fails to capture anything about uncertainty and management of risk, which are key factors in decision making. For example, I occasionally travel between Cambridge and Chelmsford, which is cheapest via Ipswich but I never use that route. I'm happy to pay more to go via London because it is more resilient to disruption with more trains and alternative routes between London and Cambridge. On more local journeys, whether I use my ebike or bus is decided on risk management. I will only use the ebike when I'm satisfied about storage security, and I don't cycle after dark because it is much more difficult and dangerous. How are aspects like this covered in your model?

 

[miklcct]

I have various issues with this approach. It looks to me like a model being constructed because it is possible not because it is useful. Also, like many such models there is a big risk of garbage in garbage out.


Despite the explanation I still have no understanding of what these parameters are proposed to represent. How have they been measured, or are they just numbers plucked out of the air to drive the model? In either case, what sensitivity analysis has been done to find out how robust the models results are to changes in these parameters? For example, the empirical evidence in Cambridge is that journeys by cycling are much reduced when it is raining, how does your model deal with that?

From my own perspective, the model fails to capture many aspects of my decision making. The discussion title is about time. For me journey time is not about "time is money" value at all, and the relationship between time taken and how or whether I will make the journey is not linear. For journeys up to about 3 hours I'm not greatly bothered how long it takes, providing that I can sit and read during the journey and that there is an opportunity for a short break. Once the journey time goes over 3 hours my propensity to make the journey at all falls off a cliff, for health reasons. Another example is that I'm quite happy to make a longer journey if it avoids stairs.

Your model also fails to capture anything about uncertainty and management of risk, which are key factors in decision making. For example, I occasionally travel between Cambridge and Chelmsford, which is cheapest via Ipswich but I never use that route. I'm happy to pay more to go via London because it is more resilient to disruption with more trains and alternative routes between London and Cambridge. On more local journeys, whether I use my ebike or bus is decided on risk management. I will only use the ebike when I'm satisfied about storage security, and I don't cycle after dark because it is much more difficult and dangerous. How are aspects like this covered in your model?

These values are used in transport planning. In order to deduce these values, a questionnaire is made by asking participants, given two choices, which one they choose.

For example, you choose a train route which is more frequent, frequency is attached a value in transport model as it is directly related to waiting time. You want to avoid stairs? That's catered as well, there is a term called "stairs reluctance" in the model.

For value of time, the A-B choice is simple. Give two choices, one is longer but cheaper and ask which one you will take.

Bike safety is also catered in the model by assigning different numbers to different kinds of road, for example, a trunk road has a much higher safety number (more dangerous) than a cycleway.

All the above are supported in software which you can adjust the parameters.

 

[skyhigh]

I'm interested in others' valuation on the above

No wonder you get into so much bother if that's the level of detail you go into for every travel decision.

 

[The exile]

Most people do not consciously use metrics like this to decide how or where to travel. If the metrics exist, they are unknown and buried in peoples' subconscious and entirely variable depending on any number of factors.

Entirely and almost infinitely variable….

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2024 ==

In transport modelling, passengers' preferences of journeys are modelled by generalized cost (GC) of travel, which includes the actual monetary cost and the value of time (VoT), which is applied by multiplying a rate into the generalised journey time (GJT).

The generalised journey time is formed by applying factors and costs onto various components into the journey, such as access, waiting, transfer, and on board, and the factors are expressed as a factor of in-vehicle time (IVT).

In the past, I used a spreadsheet which I can enter the preferences and routes to calculate the GJT and GC to decide which transport route I will use for my journey, especially when the difference between different routes are small (for example, sometimes the best few options only have a difference of a few pence in the GC, and without detailed calculation down to minute accuracy it is hard to know which one is the best).

Now, there is open source software which can automatically calculate the best available routes according to the input preference, and I'm working on a GB wide multi-model journey planner in my job. All the components mentioned above, and many more can be input as your preference to the software to find the optimal routes, best suited for your preference.

For example, the software allows you to set:
- your walking or cycling speed
- if you want more slack before boarding or after alighting, to avoid tight connections
- how much you want to avoid boarding a transport vehicle (with or without bike), or transfers between transport vehicles (expressed in terms of time per boarding / transfer)
- how much you want to prefer / avoid walking / cycling / driving (expressed as a multiplier of the IVT)
- how much you want to prefer / avoid bus / tram / train / metro / whatever mode of transport (expressed as a multiplier of the IVT)
- How much you want to prefer / avoid walking slopes / stairs / taking lifts / etc. (the configuration is really that detailed)
- The balance between time / safety / flatness on your bike

I have my own preferences on the above items and I am interested in others' view, particularly about car users in their driving reluctance. My preferences are follows:

- access mode reluctances:
Walk: 1.25
Bike: 1.5
Car: 2.0
Walking with a bike: 2.0

Which means for a journey which takes 30 minutes on public transport, door to door without waiting, I will only walk, cycle or drive it if the time required is less than 24 minutes walk, 20 minutes cycle, or 15 minutes drive, before taking monetary cost into consideration.

- transit modes reluctances:
Train: 0.95
Metro: 0.98
Tram: 1
Bus: 1.1

Which means that if a tram journey takes 95 minutes, I'm happy to take a train if it takes less than 100 minutes between the same places if they depart at the same time, as I value 1 minute on a train as the same as 0.95 minutes on a transit vehicle in general.

- waiting reluctance: 1.1

If I face a 10-minute wait for a tram which will arrive my destination in 1 minute, and another tram which departs immediately and goes to my destination as well, I'll only board that tram if it takes less than 12 minutes (as I value 10 minutes waiting time as 11 minutes in a tram).

- boarding cost: 2 minutes
- boarding with a bike cost: 5 minutes (instead of 2)

If I'm already on a tram which can go to my destination, and there is an opportunity to transfer to another tram with a faster route for my destination which departs immediately, I'll change to it if it can save me at least 2 minutes for my destination.

And finally my value of time used in evaluation:
- Weekdays: £9 / hour IVT
- Weekends: £6 / hour IVT

Taking the above, let me use some examples for calculation, assuming it's a choice between using a car and using public transport:
Car: 60 minutes drive, door to door
Public transport: walk 10 minutes, wait 2 minutes, take tube 12 minutes, walk 8 minutes, wait 10 minutes, take train 44 minutes, walk 2 minutes, wait 10 minutes, take bus 7 minutes, walk 3 minutes to the destination. (total 108 minutes)

Applying the above numbers, both the car GJT and public transport GJT are the same, 120 minutes for me, so I'll pick on the basis of monetary cost.

However, if I can remove the feeder journeys and bring my cycle onto the train in the following form:
- Cycle 20 minutes
- Walk 3 minutes with my bike to the platform
- Wait 2 minutes (the slack I use for boarding a scheduled service on a flexible ticket - I aim to arrive the stop 2 minutes before the departure time)
- Take train 44 minutes
- Cycle 10 minutes to my destination
(Total 79 minutes in real-world time)
The total GJT will become 97 minutes only, a 23 minutes saving against the car despite the journey being 19 minutes longer, and the car cost needs to be £2.30 cheaper than the train fare (as the cost of cycling is negligible) for me to use a car in this case on a weekend.

I'm interested in others' valuation on the above, including the numbers used to work out which option you will choose.

How do you value the time spent/wasted doing the above?

That modelling is probably all very well when applied to large volumes of people, where individual variables ( feeling fragile this morning so had better not drive / taking cakes into work so had better drive) will roughly balance each other out (but not, as in the wet Cambridge example, external variables) - but seems a bit excessive to enslave yourself to for an individual journey. Transport Planning and individual journey planning are of course related but the tools that enable one are not necessarily fit for purpose for the other.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This is all a bit like that hypothetical story of a billionaire seeing £500 lying on the ground and it not being worth his while the 20 seconds to stop and pick it up because he'd earn £550 in that 20 seconds...

...which completely overlooks that the said hypothetical billionaire would only have to walk faster for about one minute to recover those 20 seconds and thereby earn the extra £500.

That theory, however, simply cannot be applied to a typical everyday journey. The only time it would really have worked was with the time saving of Concorde between London and New York, especially westbound. There's no way it will make any difference to a given individual going from, say, Bristol to York.

 

[stuu]

A combination of journey time, convenience and cost. So local journeys are walk/bike/ car/bus depending on the reason and the timings. Its also fairly elastic, if I'm not working and don't have any plans I'll walk further than if I have plans. On the other hand if I need to get to London, the difference in time between the train and the coach is so much that cost is really not important, unless it's silly money.

There's nothing like a fixed value on it though, and for complicated journeys I would rather have a bit of leeway than stress about every minute, a bit of hanging about beats constantly refreshing live times on your phone and swearing every time you get to a red light.

 

[miklcct]

Entirely and almost infinitely variable….

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2024 ==


How do you value the time spent/wasted doing the above?

A lot in the past, so I am now working on a piece of software and the data to hopefully get it right. I'm now surveying major interchange stations in London to record them in OpenStreetMap such that the software can generate reliable and accurate (to-the-minute) times for connections.

That modelling is probably all very well when applied to large volumes of people, where individual variables ( feeling fragile this morning so had better not drive / taking cakes into work so had better drive) will roughly balance each other out (but not, as in the wet Cambridge example, external variables) - but seems a bit excessive to enslave yourself to for an individual journey. Transport Planning and individual journey planning are of course related but the tools that enable one are not necessarily fit for purpose for the other.

If the software can fetch weather forecast, it can then provide weather-related preferences for the user to set as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot in the past, so I am now working on a piece of software and the data to hopefully get it right. I'm now surveying major interchange stations in London to record them in OpenStreetMap such that the software can generate reliable and accurate (to-the-minute) times for connections.

For all I used to love writing random pieces of software when I was a student, including such useful things as departure boards by text (sadly because of the cost of the texts I couldn't make it publically available), I suspect your life would be a lot more enjoyable were you to stop treating it like an athletic event and relaxed a bit

I'm a runner (doubt as quick as you though) but I don't want my whole life to be like that, I prefer to travel in a relaxed fashion with enjoyment ranked above speed (e.g. I almost always use stopping trains into London for a greater choice of seats).

 

[skyhigh]

such that the software can generate reliable and accurate (to-the-minute) times for connections.

All well and good for your purposes, but completely useless for the general public as minimum connection times are fixed. An 'illegal' connection ruins your rights to onward travel/delay repay based on your optimised data.

 

[miklcct]

For all I used to love writing random pieces of software when I was a student, including such useful things as departure boards by text (sadly because of the cost of the texts I couldn't make it publically available), I suspect your life would be a lot more enjoyable were you to stop treating it like an athletic event and relaxed a bit

That software is now my full time job (although most of the surveying is done in my free time), and it is now more powerful than Google and Citymapper that it can even route you according to real time train diversions (like telling you to change at Battersea Park when Clapham Junction is blocked for the Windrush line).

Our unique selling point is the exact thing I have mentioned in this post, that the user can adjust preferences including walking speed, slack time, transfer penalty, etc. In the screenshots shown below, I like taking trains more than trams, but only a very little bit, mainly as a tie breaker. I also add 2 minutes of slack time to avoid tight connections as well.



The company has recently got venture capital investment as well.

By using this piece of software, I can make sure that the journeys returned are ordered according to what I actually want, as long as the correct data is fed into it.

Therefore I'm interested in others' preferences, to see if they match research findings, and know how much, in scientific terms, what do people mean if they like / don't like a certain mode of transport / transfers / walking / cycling / etc.

 

[AlterEgo]

If the software can fetch weather forecast, it can then provide weather-related preferences for the user to set as well.

But neurotypical people don't have weather-related preferences that can be described by a number. The human mind is much more fickle than you are expecting it to be. You can assess and predict human behaviour in the aggregate based on multiple factors and using a model, but it is a mistake to think you can predict human behaviour in the individual in the same way.

I don't know how I can put into numbers how I would decide, when standing on the pavement at Russell Square, whether I would take a bus or the Tube to the Thames, based on how cold or rainy it was. "I don't know. I guess I'll see how i feel about it."

People also like making these decisions for themselves and don't need a tech solution to game out this very elementary form of human freedom. I'd like to know how long each mode will take, and how much it will cost, and from there I will use my human brain to see how I feel about those options.

 

[The exile]

I’ve been trying to look at this objectively this morning (which is probably a telling indicator of my level of interest in what I should have been doing). I’m still not convinced that there is much worthwhile application of this at individual level - however useful such modelling may be at a macro level. It may be useful to modellers to know that fewer people walk to work in February than in June (or at least I imagine they do) - and to work out by roughly how much, but anything trying to model accurately what decision I’m likely to make on a given day (or indeed what is the “right” decision) needs to take into account, and accurately weight, the following:
Cost
Journey time (door to door)
(These two at least are reasonably determinable)
Reliability
Weather ( and not just a binary Raining yes or no)
My plans for the day
My mood /feelings (tired, need exercise etc)
Recent transport experience
Last minute hitches (ok - this has nothing to do with intent)

Difficult enough to assign a multiplier to any of the last five, and that’s before you start to work out their relative importance ( the fact that my foot hurts possibly trumps the fact that it’s a beautiful day - but how hard does it have to be raining beforeI decide that keeping dry trumps getting fresh air to deal with my headache).

 

[boiledbeans2]

That software is now my full time job (although most of the surveying is done in my free time), and it is now more powerful than Google and Citymapper that it can even route you according to real time train diversions (like telling you to change at Battersea Park when Clapham Junction is blocked for the Windrush line).
[...]

You need to make a train-enthusiast mode as well, where it prioritises the Class 91 Mk4 sets instead of Azumas.

Anyway, on a more serious note, there are other factors affecting preference, e.g. comfort. I have a non-train enthusiast friend, who chooses the Overground from Highbury & Islington to Richmond instead of the Victoria/District line. Even though the Overground route is slower, the Overground is more spacious and air-conditioned, in contrast to the Victoria line in summer.

 

[miklcct]

Anyway, on a more serious note, there are other factors affecting preference, e.g. comfort. I have a non-train enthusiast friend, who chooses the Overground from Highbury & Islington to Richmond instead of the Victoria/District line. Even though the Overground route is slower, the Overground is more spacious and air-conditioned, in contrast to the Victoria line in summer.

The software allows you to prefer / avoid certain modes (for example, the Overground is considered a rail mode while the Underground is considered a subway mode in GTFS), or avoid certain routes, which caters for her preference.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm inclined to think trying to get people's preferences as numbers on here probably won't work, because as mentioned it takes a stated preference survey to establish what they are. Perhaps the software needs to incorporate one to tailor itself to an individual?

Despite the adverse comments I think there may be some value in this as a personal journey planner as well as its currently use as a demand prediction model. In particular, it could highlight to employers the opportunity to do productive work on a train (assuming both the work and the train are conducive!) and therefore add another factor in choosing the best mode for a particular journey rather than just cost and time.

For example I can do several hours of work on the train if I use it to travel to (say) Glasgow, but changing trains or using one which is full and standing or has high-density seating will reduce that productive time, and any leg under 30min probably isn't very useful at all. Flying is quicker door to door but there is little or no opportunity to work.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Interesting thread. My experience from a comparable field is broadly that:

• no two people have the same preferences
• in fact, people can change their preferences from day to day
• broadly no one can be bothered with tuning granular weightings
• but if you offer a compelling "opinion" (in the sense of "opinionated software"), i.e. you make it clear that your site/app offers these particular preferences, then people understand and welcome that

What CycleStreets/Citymapper do is quite nice UI-wise: they offer "Fastest", "Quietest" and "Balanced" weightings for their cycle journeys. It's clear what each one means, and the user can eyeball the three results and choose the one that's best for them that particular day.

You could do similarly: offer preset weightings such as "I'd rather not drive", "I just want to get there quickly", "I'll have a folding bike with me", that sort of thing.

(Of course then you get into the issue of whether you're using an algorithm such as Contraction Hierarchies that doesn't favour run-time weighting changes, but that's another thread entirely!)

 

[The exile]

What CycleStreets/Citymapper do is quite nice UI-wise: they offer "Fastest", "Quietest" and "Balanced" weightings for their cycle journeys. It's clear what each one means, and the user can eyeball the three results and choose the one that's best for them that particular day.

(Of course then you get into the issue of whether you're using an algorithm such as Contraction Hierarchies that doesn't favour run-time weighting changes, but that's another thread entirely!)

The problem with such algorithms is that they often don’t reflect reality - as lots of SatNav stories testify. My local example - if selecting “shortest (or indeed optimal) route”in one particular direction it takes you off the main road onto the “old road” on the basis that it’s about 3 metres shorter. Trouble is following that route soon rejoins the (busy) main road with a right turn on a fairly blind bend, costing you far more time (and probably fuel) than you’ve saved by taking the shorter route.

 

[miklcct]

The problem with such algorithms is that they often don’t reflect reality - as lots of SatNav stories testify. My local example - if selecting “shortest (or indeed optimal) route”in one particular direction it takes you off the main road onto the “old road” on the basis that it’s about 3 metres shorter. Trouble is following that route soon rejoins the (busy) main road with a right turn on a fairly blind bend, costing you far more time (and probably fuel) than you’ve saved by taking the shorter route.

My offline car navigation software has an option called "fuel saving". It uses some amount deducted from researches to balance time and distance. If this option isn't used, it default to the fastest which may route you via motorways a dozen mile longer than a slow A-road just to save 2 minutes.

Of course, if the software offers an option called "shortest", it must return you the absolute shortest route to be correct as it has a clear definition.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

"Shortest" is easy. "Fastest" is harder for car routing, but actually easier for public transport routing (because trains run to a timetable, at least in theory) and not too hard for bike routing. But as I say, the trick is arguably to offer opinionated routing rather than optimising for a single metric.

(This is partly what I do for a living, just with bikes rather than cars or trains!)

 

[BayPaul]

Does the model allow for the amount of time needed to complain about the service received on the transport mode of your choice?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Of course, if the software offers an option called "shortest", it must return you the absolute shortest route to be correct as it has a clear definition.

I get that you are largely interested in public transport options rather than car sat nav’s but all of this tends to break down in somewhere like the Peak District.

‘Shortest’ can find you directed down BOATs (Byways Open to All Traffic). They may nominally be public highways but in practice can be hard to negotiate on a trail bike or horse, let alone a saloon car.

Any ‘quickest’ route can still find you stuck behind the bin lorry or school bus at the wrong time of day. Let alone ‘stand offs’ between agricultural vehicles and quarry trucks.

Animals can be herded across or along the road; equestrians can be out in force; random flooding and landslips…

My strategy is to always allow an extra 20 minutes even on short trips. Any longer journey can still end up with a diversion to avoid yet another motorcycle accident and suddenly take an extra 40 minutes or more.

An hour’s contingency is wise.

 

[miklcct]

‘Shortest’ can find you directed down BOATs (Byways Open to All Traffic). They may nominally be public highways but in practice can be hard to negotiate on a trail bike or horse, let alone a saloon car.

I can enter the dimension of my car, and the software will then know not to route me to these roads where the car can't physically pass.

 

[Llanigraham]

‘Shortest’ can find you directed down BOATs (Byways Open to All Traffic). They may nominally be public highways but in practice can be hard to negotiate on a trail bike or horse, let alone a saloon car.

I use a stand-alone Garmin invariably set to "shortest" and have never been routed down a BOAT.
However if I use Outdoor Active, which I have on my mobile phone that can happen when it is set to display OS maps.
Luckily I am able to realise that they aren't always suitable for my car.

 

[Ediswan]

Even a public highway (see the sign) may be a rough track. Poles Lane, Ware, Herts. This gets much rougher further along.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6kdkKPiHFNJsLU6Y8

Image of a green and white 'Public Highway' sign pointing along a narrow rough track.

 

[Llanigraham]

Even a public highway (see the sign) may be a rough track. Poles Lane, Ware, Herts. This gets much rougher further along.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6kdkKPiHFNJsLU6Y8
View attachment 167248
Image of a green and white 'Public Highway' sign pointing along a narrow rough track.

That appears to be what we have commented on above, a Byway Open to All Traffic.

 

[Ediswan]

That appears to be what we have commented on above, a Byway Open to All Traffic.

If it were a BOAT, it would be marked on OS maps as such. It is not.