How do you solve a problem like GEML?

[TheEdge]

Meanwhile on planet Earth the view is that a set of crayons was left for someone to scribble with. No chance of the infrastructure schemes needed to make that lot work ever getting started.

Quite, looks very interesting but pigs will be flying in battle formations before that all gets realised. :cry:

 

[jopsuk]

Meanwhile on planet Earth the view is that a set of crayons was left for someone to scribble with. No chance of the infrastructure schemes needed to make that lot work ever getting started.

it might as well have things such as "and gauge enhancements to GC+ to allow new European-spec double decker stock to be used, throughout"

 

[Prairie_5542]

1. They should re-instate the centre track at Chelmsford station. 2. The country facing siding next to platform 4 (?) should be made into a through loop. 3 They should try and get 3 tracks in, between Shenfield and Chelmsford. 4. Manningtree Station should have a fourth platform made (only half of it is available at the moment to use, mainly by engineer's trains) 5. Re-instate Ardleigh station with 4 platforms, so Colchester or even start at Marks Tey to Manningtree could be made into 3 or 4 tracks. 6. Double trowse bridge. 7. Change the MK3 doors to automatic closing like on the EC Mk4. This would speed up station dwell times instead of waiting for people to close doors and check that they are all secure etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

1. They should re-instate the centre track at Chelmsford station. 2. The country facing siding next to platform 4 (?) at Witham station should be made into a through loop. 3 They should try and get 3 tracks in, between Shenfield and Chelmsford. 4. Manningtree Station should have a fourth platform made (only half of it is available at the moment to use, mainly by engineer's trains) 5. Re-instate Ardleigh station with 4 platforms, so Colchester or even start at Marks Tey to Manningtree could be made into 3 or 4 tracks. 6. Double trowse bridge. 7. Change the MK3 doors to automatic closing like on the EC Mk4. This would speed up station dwell times instead of waiting for people to close doors and check that they are all secure etc.

Witham station

 

[GB]

Ardleigh doesn't really warrant a new station and adding one would just slow the route down more.

 

[Whistler40145]

The infrastructure of the GEML sounds quite like the WCML!

 

[Class 170101]

As for Witham the 60 is now only over the pointwork at the South of the station but alongside dozens of new wooden sleepers have been delivered so we can but hope.

That one has been there over a year now running at various speeds between 20 and 60mph.

 

[w0033944]

The infrastructure of the GEML sounds quite like the WCML!

It's worse! Until recently, IIRC, there was track circuiting/signal equipment (not sure which) down in Essex dating from the last years of the LNER.:roll:

As I've said before on here, there is at least one crossing that I can't see it's possible to close - my local one at Swainsthorpe. It's the first road crossing out of Norwich on the GEML, and it takes a road linking the villages around here to the A140 road. As the line (and road) go straight through the middle of the village, there is housing right up against the line on 3 of the 4 sides, and on the only side where the houses don't back onto the NR fence, there's a small brick building which appears to be for railway use, given that it's unmarked, clearly not domestic, and often has an NR van parked in the small parking area in front of it. As such, you couldn't lower the road to go under the line as you'd leave the houses marooned on a cliff edge, closing the road would chop the village in half with a 1 1/2 mile detour under a narrow rail bridge on a single-track lane as the only way to drive from one half to the other, and dropping the line would be (I presume) hideously expensive, without taking into account the climb in either direction not being popular with Abelio or the FOCs.

 

[najaB]

As I've said before on here, there is at least one crossing that I can't see it's possible to close - my local one at Swainsthorpe.

It's possible, the question is if it's affordable. I don't know the area very well but I don't imagine it's a particularly busy road so it's probably not worth the expense of closing the crossing. Is it closed long/often enough to be a major inconvenience to the community?

 

[LAX54]

It's worse! Until recently, IIRC, there was track circuiting/signal equipment (not sure which) down in Essex dating from the last years of the LNER.:roll:

As I've said before on here, there is at least one crossing that I can't see it's possible to close - my local one at Swainsthorpe. It's the first road crossing out of Norwich on the GEML, and it takes a road linking the villages around here to the A140 road. As the line (and road) go straight through the middle of the village, there is housing right up against the line on 3 of the 4 sides, and on the only side where the houses don't back onto the NR fence, there's a small brick building which appears to be for railway use, given that it's unmarked, clearly not domestic, and often has an NR van parked in the small parking area in front of it. As such, you couldn't lower the road to go under the line as you'd leave the houses marooned on a cliff edge, closing the road would chop the village in half with a 1 1/2 mile detour under a narrow rail bridge on a single-track lane as the only way to drive from one half to the other, and dropping the line would be (I presume) hideously expensive, without taking into account the climb in either direction not being popular with Abelio or the FOCs.

As far as I know there are no plans to close any AHB on the route out of Norwich, they maybe 're-timed' to allow 110 running though. (which I think is the max for AHB's ? )

 

[dk1]

As far as I know there are no plans to close any AHB on the route out of Norwich, they maybe 're-timed' to allow 110 running though. (which I think is the max for AHB's ? )

100mph is the max speed for AHBs. That was always the argument that level crossing upgrades to CCTV where not cost effective for the extra 10mph.

 

[w0033944]

It's possible, the question is if it's affordable. I don't know the area very well but I don't imagine it's a particularly busy road so it's probably not worth the expense of closing the crossing. Is it closed long/often enough to be a major inconvenience to the community?

Given that it's an AHB, no, but, in order to speed-up the route, you need 110 mph, and the upper limit for AHBs is 100 mph, which is the linespeed at that location.

 

[DasLunatic]

- Build a few sidings at Chappel to house Sudbury units - possible tie-in with the East Anglian Railway Museum?
Possible doubling of Sudbury line + new build line to Rugby via Haverhill, Cambridge and St Neots (removes most freight beyond Marks Tey + relieves southern WCML)
- Electrification of Felixstowe branch
- Remodelling of junction east of Colchester (allow Sunshine Coast traffic to reach Ipswich without reversing at Colchester
- Acquire Thameslink 377s to replace 321s, giving them to Northern or ScotRail
These are all ludicrously expensive plans, but we're on a dilapidated line...

 

[Whistler40145]

I presume you mean Sunshine Coast services reversing at Colchester Town?

Does every service need to call at Colchester Town in each direction?

 

[DasLunatic]

I presume you mean Sunshine Coast services reversing at Colchester Town?

Does every service need to call at Colchester Town in each direction?

No. I mean services for services running from say, Clacton Depot to Ipswich to supplement a terminated service. It takes an age to swap ends on a 321

 

[Whistler40145]

I understand.

 

[AM9]

No. I mean services for services running from say, Clacton Depot to Ipswich to supplement a terminated service. It takes an age to swap ends on a 321

That would be prohibitively expensive. There are houses on both sides of the loops. If the chord went north of the GEML, it would need to take a very large sweep through woodland to avoid a ridiculous timewasting PSR.
Is there that much business from Clacton going north?

 

[Class 170101]

Given that it's an AHB, no, but, in order to speed-up the route, you need 110 mph, and the upper limit for AHBs is 100 mph, which is the linespeed at that location.

Ignoring the AHB could a train physically reach 110 at this site?

 

[Bald Rick]

Ignoring the AHB could a train physically reach 110 at this site?

Yes, easily. But what's the point for 3 seconds a mile.

As has been said previously and repeatedly, the choices are pretty simple. Spend several hundred million pounds to knock 4 minutes off the London - Norwich journey, or just don't stop one train an hour at Diss or Manningtree.

 

[LAX54]

Yes, easily. But what's the point for 3 seconds a mile.

As has been said previously and repeatedly, the choices are pretty simple. Spend several hundred million pounds to knock 4 minutes off the London - Norwich journey, or just don't stop one train an hour at Diss or Manningtree.

You surely don't mean going back to the quite succesful alternate 'fasts' of the 1980's ?

 

[DasLunatic]

There's already a diagram doing this, I think:

1P46 1700 LST - NRW

 

[LAX54]

There's already a diagram doing this, I think:

1P46 1700 LST - NRW

Ahhh, "The Angry Anne" used to be Ipswich, Norwich only, now of course Ipswich, Diss and Norwich !

 

[chubs]

I remember hearing that it is no longer possible due to increased capacity, but the Norwich to Liverpool St fasts (1hr40) every hour stopping only at Ipswich and Colchester were fantastic back in the mid 00's.

 

[w0033944]

Yes, easily. But what's the point for 3 seconds a mile.

As has been said previously and repeatedly, the choices are pretty simple. Spend several hundred million pounds to knock 4 minutes off the London - Norwich journey, or just don't stop one train an hour at Diss or Manningtree.

Indeed - I don't know why they don't have some services just stopping at Ipswich and Colchester.

 

[AM9]

I remember hearing that it is no longer possible due to increased capacity, but the Norwich to Liverpool St fasts (1hr40) every hour stopping only at Ipswich and Colchester were fantastic back in the mid 00's.

Even in the '70s there were odd hour X:30 departures for COL and IPS, the even hour X:30s also stopped at CHM, MNG, SMK & DIS. It worked fine including the east london/Essex passengers being fed in by the X:00 Clacton services. Similar services operated in the up direction also.
'Norwich in ninety'might be a convenient call for Norfolk politicians and local media, but they won't get anything like that if they don't forget their insistence that trains must stop everywhere. The GEML is like the Portsmouth direct line, slow, busy, secondary main line with too many 'essential' stops and at its London end, compromised by suburban sedrvices. It also has a fair share of freight getting in the way so nothing much happening for at least 20 years. If it had any priority, it wouldn't still have OLE portals that have been there since the early '50s.

 

[90sWereBetter]

During the FGE/Anglia Railways era, there used to be 4tph off-peak direct from Ipswich into London, two InterCities, and two stoppers. Today, there's only one stopper, at xx:52 past the hour. When was the second stopper service withdrawn, and which, if any services, took over its slot on the GEML?

 

[450.emu]

I concur; having worked at Great Eastern, seen AGA from the inside and been travelling the line for 20 years, there's no quick fix possible. But it could be made a hell of a lot better without spending a fortune on major new track layouts.

Here are my pet gripes on things that could be fixed quickly:

1. The OHL - sections need ripping out and replacing - should have been done years ago.
...
7. The complete chaos when something goes wrong. Seeing that it happens quite a lot.

Agree with you on the OHLE... as for point 7, do you look after their IT as well? At least they have the new Fujitsu kit in now. Remembered when Ilford had a Swecoin ticket machine catch fire last year hock:

wondering how things are coping in this heat? It's going to be 35degC tomorrow :eek:

 

[Z12XE]

During the FGE/Anglia Railways era, there used to be 4tph off-peak direct from Ipswich into London, two InterCities, and two stoppers. Today, there's only one stopper, at xx:52 past the hour. When was the second stopper service withdrawn, and which, if any services, took over its slot on the GEML?

One passenger path via Chelmsford was lost when the Timetable changed

2x Norwich
2x Ipswich
1x Colchester Town
1x Clacton
1x Braintree
7 Trains each way

Became
2x Norwich
1x Peterborough/Lowestoft (alternate hours)
1x Harwich Town
1x Clacton
1x Braintree
6 Trains Each way, which then at the change stayed at 6, although the destinations changed slightly (Colchester Town instead of a Harwich and EMU to Ipswich rather than the DMU service)

 

[43074]

During the FGE/Anglia Railways era, there used to be 4tph off-peak direct from Ipswich into London, two InterCities, and two stoppers. Today, there's only one stopper, at xx:52 past the hour. When was the second stopper service withdrawn, and which, if any services, took over its slot on the GEML?

The other service wasn't really a stopper, it left London at xx:45 and Ipswich at xx:30, and it called at Manningtree, Colchester, Chelmsford & Liverpool Street to compete with Anglia Railways.

I suppose it became part of the London - Peterborough/Lowestoft services which then became the stopper that runs today.

 

[Class 170101]

During the FGE/Anglia Railways era, there used to be 4tph off-peak direct from Ipswich into London, two InterCities, and two stoppers. Today, there's only one stopper, at xx:52 past the hour. When was the second stopper service withdrawn, and which, if any services, took over its slot on the GEML?

No passenger services but a second Class 4 freight path. There are now two of these paths per hour in each direction between Ipswich and Stratford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The other service wasn't really a stopper, it left London at xx:45 and Ipswich at xx:30, and it called at Manningtree, Colchester, Chelmsford & Liverpool Street to compete with Anglia Railways.

I think it latterly had Stratford added to it as that became an important station towards the end.