How do SeatFrog First Class Upgrade Auctions work?

[eoff]

Having tried SeatFrog for the first time (as suggested by Cross Country staff) I'm interested to know how the process works and I'm assuming limited seat availability.

Imagine I want to bid for Edinburgh to York on a specific service. At overlapping times people may be bidding for Edinburgh to Kings Cross and York to Kings Cross.
How is that resolved? Bids for later in the journey could be pointless if the overlapping journey bid is accepted before those auctions finish.
Are SeatFrog going to prioritise multiple bids for segments of the same service to get multiple platform fees? To do that they would have to not take the winning bid from earlier segments.

Any thoughts?

 

[occone]

My understanding (from playing around with bidding on different journeys on the same train) is that when you win, you take that seat out of action for the whole journey even if you only use it for part way. It'll be unreserved for the rest of the journey.

Please correct me if you have seen something different - but in my experience the value for money increases greatly for longer journeys, it'll be £15 from A to B, and £15 for A to C.

 

[mickey]

My experience is sort of a hybrid of the two above. Seats do tend to be the same price regardless of distance (which isn’t a bad thing as it removes their incentive to restrict to the most profitable itineraries), but if a shorter one has already been sold then it could be booked again later for another part of the journey. So for example, the seat is open to anyone between Bournemouth and Manchester, but if Reading-Brum sells, then Brum-Manc may also then get sold… but they don’t split it in two to begin with (if that makes sense!)

 

[KNN]

If you do it on Avanti be careful you don't accidentally get Standard Premium. I've heard of an example where someone thought they were bidding for First and ended up paying more than the upgrade price for Standard Premium.

 

[Skiddaw]

If you do it on Avanti be careful you don't accidentally get Standard Premium. I've heard of an example where someone thought they were bidding for First and ended up paying more than the upgrade price for Standard Premium.

Yes, you do need to watch out for that. It's often flagged on SF as first when it's actually SP. On the other hand, it's useful if you're after a guaranteed SP upgrade without having to take a chance on a seat being available.

 

[paninaro]

Bids for later in the journey could be pointless if the overlapping journey bid is accepted before those auctions finish

I haven't used Seatfrog but I see their site says they can close auctions early for "operational reasons" including "onboard availability is reduced" which I think would apply here

 

[AlterEgo]

If you do it on Avanti be careful you don't accidentally get Standard Premium. I've heard of an example where someone thought they were bidding for First and ended up paying more than the upgrade price for Standard Premium.

If they paid more for SP than the usual upgrade price then it is a clear example of mis-selling.

 

[eoff]

Elsewhere in the forum there is an example of the ORR pushing SeatFrog to be more transparent on the full costs as required by consumer regulation so if there is a real issue here perhaps it should be reported.

 

[KNN]

If they paid more for SP than the usual upgrade price then it is a clear example of mis-selling.

I don't know if it was a bug, but I just downloaded the app and there is a pop up about Standard Premium Vs First and also a fixed price to buy it without the auction (presumably the standard upgrade price), so it would be your fault if you did it now I think.

 

[Haywain]

If they paid more for SP than the usual upgrade price then it is a clear example of mis-selling.

Isn't that much the same as selling a first class ticket when an on-board upgrade might be available? The difference being that you can reserve a seat or have some priority for available seats.

 

[frodshamfella]

I've used it a few times from Liverpool or Runcorn to Euston, and its worked and ive got an upgrade to first and more resent in standard premium . They charge on top of your bid price a " platform" fee, of £6.00 I think. This is not very obvious when you place the bid, and its something I don't recall seeing in the past, so I think this must be a more recent addition.

 

[davp]

It’s £3 per seat, so £6 for a return upgrade.

I agree it’s not obvious. It’s missing off the bid overview page and could be overlooked on the bid confirmation.

The instant upgrade prices on the overview include the platform fee so I’m not sure why that couldn’t apply to the bid too.

 

[Watershed]

It’s £3 per seat, so £6 for a return upgrade.

I agree it’s not obvious. It’s missing off the bid overview page and could be overlooked on the bid confirmation.

The instant upgrade prices on the overview include the platform fee so I’m not sure why that couldn’t apply to the bid too.

It's just SeatFrog engaging in drip pricing which they've always done - not to mention reducing the Delay Repay you'd get (since the platform fee isn't shown on the ticket). It's open to challenge under the DMCCA but it's a lot easier for the CMA or ORR to get them to make wide scale changes than an individual consumer.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Worth noting the ORR already looked at Seatfrog in 2025. They made the changes requested and ORR went away happy.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-03/2025-03-04-correspondence-with-seatfrog.pdf

Seatfrog has implemented the actions necessary to address our concerns. As your systems and processes evolve over time, we expect you to continue to provide appropriate transparency about fees to your customers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2026 ==

If they paid more for SP than the usual upgrade price then it is a clear example of mis-selling.

My experience of Standard Premium is that it is often full, or near full - although I travel at naturally busy times. I have seen people unable to upgrade via the Train Manager because there is simply no space - whereas Seatfrog does generally have between 2-4 SP seats with guaranteed seat reservations. I believe this is why the price keeps being raised for SP - it was massively underpriced originally, which built up demand, and now people are aware it's there - and it's popular, even at the higher price points.

 

[Watershed]

Worth noting the ORR already looked at Seatfrog in 2025. They made the changes requested and ORR went away happy.

The ORR are absolutely useless when it comes to consumer rights. They have done nothing about operators acting in blatant breach of their PRO obligations for years, despite it having been reported to them multiple times.

I don't think you can read anything into the fact that they dropped this.

 

[yorkie]

Worth noting the ORR already looked at Seatfrog in 2025. They made the changes requested and ORR went away happy.

Aha! I knew this style of posting was familiar:

ORR are content with the platform fees and endorses Seatfrog's work to make them more transparent. They are no longer investigating, so you appear to be a bit out of the loop there, I'm afraid.

ORR produced their drop pricing report before Seatfrog introduced their drip pricing. Then Seatfrog flouted the rules, in a shoe of absolute defiance to ORR and pocketed £millions before ORR eventually did something.

ORR asked Seatfrog to make changes but failed to ensure these were actually fully compliant with the law. Since then, people have complained and ORR is aware of concerns and may yet act upon them, though I have no confidence in their ability to do so in a timely and comprehensive manner. ORR have not completely dismissed the concerns, but equally are not likely to do anything unless anyone pushes them to do so, but I wouldn't rule that out.

If ORR don't act, we could see a class action claim.

I am also aware of people who have been refunded fees by Seatfrog when they asked difficult questions about fees. That is very telling indeed!

If anyone is interested in pursuing a claim against Seatfrog, please do get in touch.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2026 ==

...My experience of Standard Premium is that it is often full, or near full ..

Hmm,:

... Standard Premium has a tendency to be full / at capacity...

 

[Cdd89]

The instant upgrade prices on the overview include the platform fee so I’m not sure why that couldn’t apply to the bid too.

Presumably they think they can make the case that it's not drip-pricing for an auction, but they don't think they can make that case for an 'instant upgrade' price.

I'm not really sure what argument they could conceive to support that distinction, other auction sites like eBay don't try to tack on a platform fee at the end for the buyer.

 

[yorkie]

Presumably they think they can make the case that it's not drip-pricing for an auction, but they don't think they can make that case for an 'instant upgrade' price.

I'm not really sure what argument they could conceive to support that distinction, other auction sites like eBay don't try to tack on a platform fee at the end for the buyer.

Agreed. Its not a valid argument, but it was enough to fool the relevant people at the ORR.

I have collected evidence of drip pricing by both Trainline and Seatfrog. I encourage others to do so too, as I expect their will be either collective claim or ruling against them at some point.

If anyone from ORR (I'm sure there are some food people there!) or any solicitors who could launch a collective claim against either of these organisations are reading this, please do get in touch.

 

[aar0]

not to mention reducing the Delay Repay you'd get (since the platform fee isn't shown on the ticket)

In delay replay claims to TfW and GWR I’ve had the platform fee included in the compensation

 

[Watershed]

In delay replay claims to TfW and GWR I’ve had the platform fee included in the compensation

That's good to hear.

 

[teaspoon]

In delay replay claims to TfW and GWR I’ve had the platform fee included in the compensation

I've found that Avanti don't - I think they even swerved it when I had paid to upgrade and the carriage was declassified.

On a related note, I was travelling on the 1730 from Euston to Glasgow this Tuesday. I'd been thinking about upgrading to Standard Premium, and there seemed to be an auction running right up until shortly before departure; after this it seemed like they'd be happy to sell me a fixed-price upgrade (I think for £36, including the fee - it's £48 to do it on board).

Avanti vary the ratio of First and Standard Premium carriages per service, and this one had three First and no SP.
I wonder what would have happened if I'd bitten on the upgrade. Been allowed to sit in my bigger seat and enjoy the cheeseboard with not enough crackers and a gin or two, or been punted back down to standard, and had the fun of arguing about a refund?

 

[yorkie]

Avanti vary the ratio of First and Standard Premium carriages per service, and this one had three First and no SP.
I wonder what would have happened if I'd bitten on the upgrade. Been allowed to sit in my bigger seat and enjoy the cheeseboard with not enough crackers and a gin or two, or been punted back down to standard, and had the fun of arguing about a refund?

They would have to let you sit in the seat, but that wouldn't mean you'd get any catering.

If they forced you to pay, I'd argue you'd be entitled to a refund, providing you didn't consume any food; you'd be entitled to sit in the seat.