• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

How Do Drivers Learn New Traction?

Status
Not open for further replies.

whhistle

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
2,636
I know this seems like an obvious question but how do drivers learn new traction?

From what I have picked up, freight drivers can be utilised to teach the TOC drivers. Let's go with the example of the IETs - quite different to HSTs.

Does the freight driver just read the manual, get in the seat and give it a go round some test track? Or does someone from the manufacturer go through with them how do drive? If the latter, does the manufacturer person read through a manual, or what?
Or do the freight/TOC drivers use a simulator first?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

DanDaDriver

Member
Joined
5 May 2018
Messages
338
I know this seems like an obvious question but how do drivers learn new traction?

From what I have picked up, freight drivers can be utilised to teach the TOC drivers. Let's go with the example of the IETs - quite different to HSTs.

Does the freight driver just read the manual, get in the seat and give it a go round some test track? Or does someone from the manufacturer go through with them how do drive? If the latter, does the manufacturer person read through a manual, or what?
Or do the freight/TOC drivers use a simulator first?

Traction isn’t ‘that’ much about handling as such.

It’s largely faults and failures and equipment layout sort of thing.

Generally the manufacturer would train instructors who would train more drivers in batches.
 

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
4,570
It's done through a mix of classroom training with an Instructor going through the manuals and PowerPoint or interactive tools tied in with static training done with a locomotive or unit to give hands on experience. If necessary handling will be done to acquire an agreed number of hours before a Driver can be passed to work solo.
 

noddingdonkey

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2012
Messages
932
Would the reference to freight drivers be more about route knowledge than traction knowledge?
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,488
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
I know this seems like an obvious question but how do drivers learn new traction?

From what I have picked up, freight drivers can be utilised to teach the TOC drivers. Let's go with the example of the IETs - quite different to HSTs.

Does the freight driver just read the manual, get in the seat and give it a go round some test track? Or does someone from the manufacturer go through with them how do drive? If the latter, does the manufacturer person read through a manual, or what?
Or do the freight/TOC drivers use a simulator first?

X days in the classroom, going through how the train is designed, locations of key equipment, going over key circuits and what equipment is on them, and how to handle a range of common and less common defects. During this time there would be a proportion of time spent in a depot going over all of the above in practical terms. There is likely to be an assessment at the end of all this, although an alternative is “continuous assessment” - ie the trainer watches how delegates perform throughout the course. By the end of this the individual should know what every button and switch does, and know how to get the train moving in most single-defect situations. Some rare multi-defect scenarios go beyond the training, although if the training has been successful and the individual understands the train (as opposed to just learning the defect flowcharts) they should be able to have a pretty good go at getting it moving.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
31,020
Location
UK
WD40, a hammer and knowing how to switch the train off and on should fix 95% of faults, no?
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,488
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
WD40, a hammer and knowing how to switch the train off and on should fix 95% of faults, no?

Lol! It’s those 5% of faults which could really cause a screw up though. As an example, water ingress in wiring or circuits is one thing which can cause things to happen which really tests whether someone knows a train or not. Or how to safely rescue a unit where the brakes can’t be released for whatever reason.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,880
Typically, how long does training on new traction take? And does that time vary for different types of traction, such as different variants of the same class?
 

Sirgerbil

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2012
Messages
357
Typically, how long does training on new traction take? And does that time vary for different types of traction, such as different variants of the same class?

It varies, my initial traction training for 91’s was 4 weeks classroom/simulator then handling.

My HST course which I’m currently doing is classed as a “conversion” course and is only 1 week long with 20 hours handling after. This is due to similarities between the two types of traction.

When we learn 800s we’ve been told that’ll be 2 weeks classroom/simulator with handling on top.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,880
It varies, my initial traction training for 91’s was 4 weeks classroom/simulator then handling.

My HST course which I’m currently doing is classed as a “conversion” course and is only 1 week long with 20 hours handling after. This is due to similarities between the two types of traction.

When we learn 800s we’ve been told that’ll be 2 weeks classroom/simulator with handling on top.
Thanks, that's useful to know in the light of the current problems at GTR and Northern. Can I expand the question slightly and ask about how long is needed for route learning?
 

rebmcr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
4,005
Location
St Neots
Thanks, that's useful to know in the light of the current problems at GTR and Northern.

It's not just the trainee that gets tied up in this process, you also have to take already-trained drivers out of passenger operations to act as instructors.
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
Thanks, that's useful to know in the light of the current problems at GTR and Northern. Can I expand the question slightly and ask about how long is needed for route learning?
For Route learning each depot will have norms (The amount of time set) in days, for each route that a particular depot or even a particular link will have to learn.
So this can vary greatly for drivers depending on what routes they cover.
For myself recently re-learning Crewe - Holyhead was 15 days and then on top of that was other days for the diversionary routes.
For my depot Manchester Piccadilly, to route learn London Euston was 81 days with no previous knowledge and that's via Stoke, via Crewe, via West Midlands (Bescot & New Street) and Northampton. Then you have any other routes as required.
Hope this helps a little.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,880
It's not just the trainee that gets tied up in this process, you also have to take already-trained drivers out of passenger operations to act as instructors.
I understand that an instructor is needed, but can the instructor be driving a service train while instructing? And presumably more than one driver can be instructed at the same time (for route learning, at least).
For Route learning each depot will have norms (The amount of time set) in days, for each route that a particular depot or even a particular link will have to learn.
So this can vary greatly for drivers depending on what routes they cover.
For myself recently re-learning Crewe - Holyhead was 15 days and then on top of that was other days for the diversionary routes.
For my depot Manchester Piccadilly, to route learn London Euston was 81 days with no previous knowledge and that's via Stoke, via Crewe, via West Midlands (Bescot & New Street) and Northampton. Then you have any other routes as required.
Hope this helps a little.
Thanks, so there will be some variation according to the length and complexity of route and potential diversionary routes. I feel more informed on the subject now.
 

BeHereNow

Guest
Joined
30 Dec 2017
Messages
308
I've used the virtual reality videos before that allow a simulation of the real layout, with full mocked up cab and controls
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
I understand that an instructor is needed, but can the instructor be driving a service train while instructing? And presumably more than one driver can be instructed at the same time (for route learning, at least).

After the initial classroom and static training the drivers go out with an instructor more often than not on service trains in passenger use. So the driver learning the traction drives whilst under instruction from the instructor driver.
You can have up to four people in the cab but this includes the train driver themself & instructor & 2 trainees. So if your working a train which is the instructors own link work you could have three trainees with him as one will be driving at any one time.
Our TOC normally normal does one to one with just the instructor driver & traction training driver, unless short of instructors and then more time is aloud so each driver gets the required amount of driving on a particular traction.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,880
After the initial classroom and static training the drivers go out with an instructor more often than not on service trains in passenger use. So the driver learning the traction drives whilst under instruction from the instructor driver.
You can have up to four people in the cab but this includes the train driver themself & instructor & 2 trainees. So if your working a train which is the instructors own link work you could have three trainees with him as one will be driving at any one time.
Our TOC normally normal does one to one with just the instructor driver & traction training driver, unless short of instructors and then more time is aloud so each driver gets the required amount of driving on a particular traction.
Once again, a very helpful response. Thank you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top