How do Advance Fare sales work on multi-stop itineraries?

[Belperpete]

I understand that advance fares have different tiers, and when the allocation of each tier is used up, you move to the next, pricier tier, and so on, until all allocations are used up and then no further advance fares are available for that train. But how does this work on journeys with multiple calling points?

Take, for example, Holyhead to Euston. If someone buys say a Holyhead to Chester advance, does that use up one allocation for that train? Or is that allocation still available for Chester to Euston? If bookings are made for two passengers, one Holyhead to Chester and the other Chester to London, using the same seat, but then one of the passengers uses the seat selector to move to a different seat, does that mean there is now one less advance ticket allocation left?

On occasions when trying to book an advance, I have found none available on suitable trains from Bangor, Llandudno Jcn or Chester, but they are available on the same trains from Crewe. Does this mean that different stations (or station groups) have separate allocations? Or do TOCs block the sale of advances from certain stations although allocations are still available? And if so, why would they do this?

 

[Sonic1234]

I think it's however the TOC decides to allocate the fares, with the aim of maximising revenue. Sometimes will be per train, they will only want a certain percentage of "cheap" fares on a train (and for busy trains this may be zero - try booking a ticket with a connection on a busy commuter service) and sometimes will be per station group to maximise revenue.

At one point, Southern were charging more to their popular stations than minor stations, so it must be possible to allocate fares for certain flows and not others. For example, Victoria to Lewes was a higher-priced tier than Victoria to Polegate on the same train - the reasoning being that quite a few people would enjoy a day out in Lewes, but not so many Londoners are thinking about a day out in Polegate (Cuckoo Trail is worth a visit though).

 

[Belperpete]

At one point, Southern were charging more to their popular stations than minor stations, so it must be possible to allocate fares for certain flows and not others. For example, Victoria to Lewes was a higher-priced tier than Victoria to Polegate on the same train - the reasoning being that quite a few people would enjoy a day out in Lewes, but not so many Londoners are thinking about a day out in Polegate (Cuckoo Trail is worth a visit though).

Were they achieving this by setting the advance ticket prices higher for Lewes, or by not releasing the lower-priced tiers for Lewes?

As per my OP, it is some insight into how advance fares are allocated for multi-stop itineraries that I am after. Having decided to allocate a set number of advances of each tier to a train, do they then allocate a proportion of that number to each station/group of stations? How does the allocation per station/group work? Why might advances on a train to London not be available from say Bangor, but they are available from a subsequent station?

 

[Haywain]

If bookings are made for two passengers, one Holyhead to Chester and the other Chester to London, using the same seat, but then one of the passengers uses the seat selector to move to a different seat, does that mean there is now one less advance ticket allocation left?

That would certainly mean that there is one less seat available for the through journey or any journey from west of Chester to south of Chester on that train, and seat availability must affect the availability of Advance fares.

 

[MrJeeves]

OP, you may be interested in some previous discussion on this topic:

Advance tickets allocations, mechanics

Just interested to know how TOCs allocate the number of advances tickets for flows and how many at each price points. But interested not in straightforward flows like Bath-London which is all on one train operator, GWR, and one actual train usually. I'd like to know how it is worked out for a...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Sonic1234]

Were they achieving this by setting the advance ticket prices higher for Lewes, or by not releasing the lower-priced tiers for Lewes?

Not releasing the lower tiers. The lower tiers were still in the fares data.

 

[Belperpete]

OP, you may be interested in some previous discussion on this topic:

Advance tickets allocations, mechanics

Just interested to know how TOCs allocate the number of advances tickets for flows and how many at each price points. But interested not in straightforward flows like Bath-London which is all on one train operator, GWR, and one actual train usually. I'd like to know how it is worked out for a...

www.railforums.co.uk

Many thanks, the information on segments was what I was after. It explains the mechanism that could cause advances not to be available from say Bangor or Chester to Euston while still available from Crewe to Euston on the same train.

If Crewe to London is a separate segment, it would explain why seats would be available from Crewe, but not available from Bangor or Chester, if the Holyhead to Crewe segment(s) had a smaller allocation or had already been filled. For example, I could imagine a lot of people booking advances from Chester to places like Liverpool or Manchester, who would rapidly fill a Chester to Crewe segment, but leaving the Crewe to London segment with availability.