How difficult is it to self dispatch?

[Class800]

We heard that trains were cancelled out of King's Lynn due to lack of a dispatcher. A speculative idea hence in this section. Is it really difficult to self dispatch? Instead of being negative and cancelling, would it not be better to say OK we prefer to have a dispatcher, but if not available, you have to do it yourself? What's the actual problem? It's not like there will be another train on the same platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We heard that trains were cancelled out of King's Lynn due to lack of a dispatcher. A speculative idea hence in this section. Is it really difficult to self dispatch? Instead of being negative and cancelling, would it not be better to say OK we prefer to have a dispatcher, but if not available, you have to do it yourself? What's the actual problem? It's not like there will be another train on the same platform.

If a platform is curved it might not be possible to see that it's safe to close the doors and that the train is safely clear of passengers. CCTV based DOO solves this, with 700s dispatched DOO at most locations, but if the units aren't fitted with that then it can be difficult with a long train and curved platform.

 

[30907]

If a platform is curved it might not be possible to see that it's safe to close the doors and that the train is safely clear of passengers.

The platform at Lynn is indeed curved, except at the buffer-stop end, so you might in theory be able to self-dispatch a 4-car but not an 8.
In fact the first departure yesterday ran, possibly confirming said theory.
Edit: apparently the dispatcher was taken to hospital, so probably not!

 

[Lurcheroo]

We heard that trains were cancelled out of King's Lynn due to lack of a dispatcher. A speculative idea hence in this section. Is it really difficult to self dispatch? Instead of being negative and cancelling, would it not be better to say OK we prefer to have a dispatcher, but if not available, you have to do it yourself? What's the actual problem? It's not like there will be another train on the same platform.

its not to do with trains, its to do with passengers. All routes, including platforms are risk-assessed and it has been determined that that platfrom requires an additional layer of checking to keep passengers safe. late running passengers do some seriously stupid stuff despite a train having its doors closed and begining to leave.

If someone with the authority to do so was to authorise self dispatch due to a lack of dispatchers and someone got injured or worse, then the backlash would be quite large. And thats if the Conductor / Train manager agreed. They can refuse on the grounds of safety if they are not happy with it, which means that a guard may be happy to dispatch a shorter train on a curved platform but not a longer one.

 

[skyhigh]

You ignored the reply that I made to your last post - the drivers do self dispatch, unless the station has been assessed as unsuitable (i.e. unsafe) to do so. That means somebody is required on the platform. For obvious reasons, the driver cannot be on the platform as the train is departing.....

The way to sort this would be to train staff such as booking office with dispatch competency to cover as a contingency if nobody else is available.

 

[Lurcheroo]

You ignored the reply that I made to your last post - the drivers do self dispatch, unless the station has been assessed as unsuitable (i.e. unsafe) to do so. That means somebody is required on the platform. For obvious reasons, the driver cannot be on the platform as the train is departing.....

The way to sort this would be to train staff such as booking office with dispatch competency to cover as a contingency if nobody else is available.

Yes drivers and guards both do self dispatch where the risk assessment deems it acceptable.

When you start getting into which roles can cover be trained to cover which starts to get a bit messy.
The dispatchers I know of (it may not be the same everywhere) are PTS trained and have a competency cycle, just as other safety critical staff such as drivers, guards and signallers all do.

Having booking office staff covering once in a blue moon is a recipe for disaster and frankly many staff would not be willing to put themselves in such a position and certainly not for additional pay for the additional responsibilities.
If it was tried I have not doubt the staff would be bringing it up at union meetings and saying it’s unacceptable.

 

[LowLevel]

Difficult doesn't come into it - the trains are fitted with cameras and are driver only self dispatched at various places en route. For whatever reason Kings Lynn still requires dispatch staff so unless they're present that is that.

 

[30907]

Having booking office staff covering once in a blue moon is a recipe for disaster and frankly many staff would not be willing to put themselves in such a position and certainly not for additional pay for the additional responsibilities.
If it was tried I have not doubt the staff would be bringing it up at union meetings and saying it’s unacceptable.

Agreed - it would need to be done regularly enough to maintain competence, with appropriate training and certainly additional pay. ISTR the dispatch of the London trains at Shipley is (or was) done by staff who also worked in the ticket office, so in principle it is possible. Whether there is any advantage would depend on the station.

 

[LowLevel]

Agreed - it would need to be done regularly enough to maintain competence, with appropriate training and certainly additional pay. ISTR the dispatch of the London trains at Shipley is (or was) done by staff who also worked in the ticket office, so in principle it is possible. Whether there is any advantage would depend on the station.

It very much depends on the location. Multiskilling in that regard has been the norm for years at locations which for example have irregular or occasional long trains particularly when they were slam door. Places like Alnmouth, Stonehaven and so on.

 

[skyhigh]

Agreed - it would need to be done regularly enough to maintain competence, with appropriate training and certainly additional pay. ISTR the dispatch of the London trains at Shipley is (or was) done by staff who also worked in the ticket office, so in principle it is possible. Whether there is any advantage would depend on the station.

Shipley was the one I had in mind when I made the suggestion.

 

[officewalla]

Most of my work is DOO and the majority of services to not have a TM. I self despatch more than I don't but some traction types and locations when worked together require a despatcher to be present. Late at night for example, there are a couple of services that carry a TM as the station should but might not be manned. Camera clarity is also a concern sometimes but as others have written, the risk assessment for the station and traction type details what can and cannot be done.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Why do many GTR stations, such as Haywards Heath or East Croydon, require dispatchers for Southern services but Thameslink are self-dispatch despite both service types being DOO operation?