How difficult is it to install a plug socket really?

[Bletchleyite]

Tester screwdriver adequate? probably, would I rely on one? definitely not.

It's a good idea to check it still works by poking it into something that is known to be live before relying on it, but they are by and large reliable for domestic use.

 

[dgl]

Also getting a non contact voltage tester from a reputable manufacturer is a good idea, MUCH better than a neon screwdriver and doesn't put you on the other end of a live electrical circuit.

Personally (and without being an electrician) have replaced sockets, ceiling roses, put in a new socket, wired in two cookers and added an RCD spur for a shed with associated fuse box in the shed.

Primarily if you can wire a plug decently then replacing a socket shouldn't be THAT difficult but as has been said if you are at any point unsure get in a professional, muck it up and it can get dangerous very quickly.

Annoyingly at work only electricians are allowed to touch stuff hard wired, understandable but annoying if you have to replace a fridge and it is hardwired, esp. as it's probably simpler than wiring a plug and the inconvenience caused if the electrician has gone home.

 

[Barn]

This video can give a good explanation of why some people are sceptical about neon screwdrivers:

 

[Bletchleyite]

This video can give a good explanation of why some people are sceptical about neon screwdrivers:

A very poor video, I would say, as it does nothing to explain the failure states he demonstrated.

 

[Hornet]

If in doubt, DON'T. The Fire Service and Insurance Companies take a very dim view of people who thought they could wire up plugs, sockets, etc, only for their shoddy workmanship to cause a fire. I've seen enough horrors working in the Electrical Industry (LV/MV Switchgear, Route Relay Interlocking and Domestic Installations) to advise that you get a Professional Certified Electrician in if you have any doubts.

 

[birchesgreen]

One tip is to take a few photos of the old installation before you disconnect any of the wires, i did that a few weeks ago before i changed a ceiling light fitting at my mum's, just as well as the wire colours in her old house were different to the fitting instructions but referring to a photo i could be sure the wires went in the right holes (oo-er).

 

[Lucan]

This video can give a good explanation of why some people are sceptical about neon screwdrivers:

He has found a really poor quality neon screwdriver there, it is not even straight! He makes some valid points, like the visibility of the neon, but as I said in my post above you should first test that the test device itself (whatever it is) is capable of showing voltage at the work location, so that includes its visibilty. My one (not made in China) has worked fine for some years, uses a proper resistor, and the neon is much more visible than his, and I have never had a mis-indication; but no I would not use it in sunlight and must admit I have never used it next to a novelty plasma lamp. But I use a voltmeter as well.

 

[underbank]

2A good way of ensuring the supply remains off is to remove the breaker/fuse for the circuit you are working on and stick it in your pocket.

That's not foolproof. It's easy to think that all wires are safe once you pull the breaker, especially if you plug something into the socket and it doesn't work. But that's not foolproof. It's exactly what I used to do in my house when I removed switches/sockets for decorating. But as part of having a new kitchen fitted, qualified/professional electricians re-wired the kitchen and put in a new breaker box, supposedly just for the kitchen circuit. A couple of years later, as I was removing sockets to decorate an upstairs room (after removing the breakers for the upstairs circuits), I got quite a shock after touching one of the wires! The qualified/professional electricians must have somehow joined the return/neutral wires of the upstairs sockets with the kitchen circuit. I tried tripping the kitchen breaker and tested the wire that gave me a shock and it was dead only with the kitchen breaker tripped. With the kitchen tripped and the upstairs sockets switched on, the upstairs sockets work, so it looks as if it's the return/neutral wires that have been crossed not the live. Ever since then, I just turn the whole house off at the mains switch as I've no idea what is safe or unsafe anymore.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All the neutrals are joined at the consumer unit in every domestic installation and the breakers only switch the live. That sounds like some kind of fault to me, I'd get it investigated, you shouldn't be getting a proper belt off the neutral.

But yes all the more reason to stick a tester on everything you're going to touch before you do.

Edit: this discusses some reasons you might get a belt off the neutral:
https://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=20264

 

[Barn]

I would certainly invest in a proper meter for checking live/dead. These aren't foolproof either, though, because you might have them set to the wrong setting, the plastic shrouding might be covering the tip, or you might get a shock from the other test lead if it swings free.

To be honest, whenever I have done any electrical work, I have done so in broad daylight with the whole house switched off at the main switch. And I still find it a bit scary.

 

[dgl]

I will admit that I was doing a socket replacement in a relatives house that has 2 fuse boxes, one supposedly only does the kitchen sockets, or so I thought.
There is one socket that in an adjoining room where there is a socket below a hatch into the kitchen where previously there was a door. That socket is on the kitchen ring and you can guess how I found that out.

Plus mains smoothing capacitors in equipment, shorting them out is very much advised, esp. if the device has only recently been unplugged. Again don't ask me how I know .

 

[Bletchleyite]

Plus mains smoothing capacitors in equipment, shorting them out is very much advised, esp. if the device has only recently been unplugged. Again don't ask me how I know .

I've had a belt off laptop PSUs when pulling them out of a socket - some of them don't isolate the capacitor from the plug pins.

 

[northwichcat]

Please call in a professional if you really do not know what you're doing with household electrics. You say that you're trying to work out whether or not you can do it yourself - please don't. It might cost you a bit to get a sparky in to do the job, but I'd imagine it's cheaper than a funeral.

I agree with that advice. When my house was rewired the electricians found there were two light fittings wired incorrectly which had been fitted by the previous occupants. One didn't work anyway but the other was a light which was being used and was actually dangerous, so it was probably lucky the house was rewired by qualified electricians!

 

[greyman42]

Slightly off subject, but changing the bulbs in some of these modern flush ceiling fittings can be very tricky. Especially the ones with the retaining springs. I always get my mate to do mine.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its not hard but it will invalidate your insurance if the work isn't done by a licensed electrician

 

[najaB]

Its not hard but it will invalidate your insurance if the work isn't done by a licensed electrician

'May' not 'will'. All depends on what is done and who does it.

 

[edwin_m]

Had a new consumer unit and main switch this week and I can confirm that neither has any provision for a padlock. Also got the electrician to replace a cracked socket, but I would have done it myself if he hadn't been coming anyway.

I'd have thought a portable mains lamp was a good a way as any to confirm that a socket is dead after isolating it (with no risk of touching live parts unlike a screwdriver or voltmeter). I agree you should turn the circuit off, comfirm the lamp is out, then turn it back on and make sure the lamp lights before switching off finally.

Many years ago my father used to do a lot of work on the house. He was re-wiring the 30A cooker circuit having first removed the fuse holder and left it on top of the fusebox. A family member who shall remain nameless (not me) found the fuse holder, wondered what it was doing there and plugged it back in. Meanwhile my dad had just taken the cable off the wall and touched it on a nearby pipe to confirm it was not live. Result: flash, bang and jet of water across the room...

Fortunate it wasn't a gas pipe I suppose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its not hard but it will invalidate your insurance if the work isn't done by a licensed electrician

Notwithstanding that such policies may exist, I have never, ever seen one with that wording (and I am a stickler for actually reading small print).

 

[Lucan]

Its not hard but it will invalidate your insurance if the work isn't done by a licensed electrician

You tell your insurance company every time you do some work on your house, with a warning that you might not have done it properly? I don't, but I make sure I do it properly, which is more than I can say for some white van professionals that I have seen.

In fact certain electrical jobs can still be done legally by other than certified professionals (although the legal requirement to do it safely and to the regulations remains) so an insurance company would have no grounds to withhold an insurance payout unless your work were a direct cause of the catastrophe. However in view of the inclination of insurance companies to grasp at any straw to deny a payout (I know, Mrs Lucan worked for one) you might need to drag them through the courts to get it. To save that hassle and expense, it is better not to trouble them with an account of your DiY work in the first place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In fact certain electrical jobs can still be done legally by other than certified professionals

The vast majority of electrical jobs. Only a few specific jobs require Building Regulations approval, but provided you apply for and obtain that you can still do what you like (provided it is compliant).

 

[johntea]

Talking of which I was staying at a Travelodge over the weekend which had a plug socket next to the bed (so useful yet seemingly so rare!) with the USB charging sockets built in. I was quite surprised even though both outlet switches were off the USB sockets were still live as soon as I plugged my phone in, must be a waste of electricity if they're powered 24/7 no matter what

 

[mmh]

Talking of which I was staying at a Travelodge over the weekend which had a plug socket next to the bed (so useful yet seemingly so rare!) with the USB charging sockets built in. I was quite surprised even though both outlet switches were off the USB sockets were still live as soon as I plugged my phone in, must be a waste of electricity if they're powered 24/7 no matter what

No electricity is being used if there isn't something plugged in making a circuit. They're relatively rare in Britain but unswitched sockets exist and are the norm in many other countries. Two examples, shaver sockets aren't switched, and any hard-wired appliance like an oven or shower doesn't use any power when it's not switched on.

Switched sockets are just a safety measure.

 

[najaB]

No electricity is being used if there isn't something plugged in making a circuit.

That entirely depends on what kind of circuitry is used to provide the 5V. If it's a switched mode power supply then some electricity would be being used even when no device was plugged in and charging.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe those USB sockets are a pain for electricians because they can't be switched off and always drain a tiny amount of current, so making it much more difficult to check the insulation on a circuit.

 

[AM9]

No electricity is being used if there isn't something plugged in making a circuit. They're relatively rare in Britain but unswitched sockets exist and are the norm in many other countries. Two examples, shaver sockets aren't switched, and any hard-wired appliance like an oven or shower doesn't use any power when it's not switched on. ...

Most shaver sockets are switched. When you plug a shaver/toothbrush charger into them, the plug moves the contacts on an internal swithch. If it is quiet enough, you can then hear the transformer hum.

I believe those USB sockets are a pain for electricians because they can't be switched off and always drain a tiny amount of current, so making it much more difficult to check the insulation on a circuit.

It is normal to disconnect any fixed devices (USB Power Supplies, switches with neon indicators etc.), as the 500VDC insulation test will damage them and/or fail them.

 

[swj99]

It's easy. You don't need a volt meter. You'll be able to tell if it's right once you've done it by seeing if you get electrocuted or not.

* Disclaimer. The above sentence may contain lies.

Get one of those electrical screwdrivers with the neon light in the handle. It will tell you if anything is live. If it lights up, you need to switch the power off before you start.

If in doubt, consult a qualified electrician.

 

[A Challenge]

It's easy. You don't need a volt meter. You'll be able to tell if it's right once you've done it by seeing if you get electrocuted or not.

* Disclaimer. The above sentence may contain lies.

Well it would work...

 

[najaB]

It's easy. You don't need a volt meter. You'll be able to tell if it's right once you've done it by seeing if you get electrocuted or not.

Problem is, you might not get electrocuted right away.

 

[Dai Corner]

Problem is, you might not get electrocuted right away.

Or it might not be you who's electrocuted, it might be a family member, visitor or subsequent occupier of the property.

 

[robbeech]

Can we please stop recommending those electrical test screwdrivers. I mean come on. You’re putting your finger on the mains that has a pathetic resistor between it. The one in the video is actually a BETTER example of one. Some are far worse. Surely we have seen the news when people have bought cheap far eastern knockoffs of iPhone chargers for £1 on eBay and the distance between 230V and 5v contacts is less than 1mm due to poor build quality and tolerance. One poor drop and things touch and you and your phone go up in smoke. The same applies here. They should be banned outright or at least strict rules be brought in on their use. They’re banned from most installation sites and certainly if on a site I’m managing I see someone using one with mains voltage they’ll have it removed and be given something better even if I have to buy it for them. A contactless one like this one are not expensive and there are cheaper ones available. They’re not fault free (the very same video describes this) but they’re better than relying on something that costs less than a couple of pence to produce that is one faulty component of one damp morning away from killing you.

There’s been some worrying advice in this thread which I must say is disappointing, especially from people who according to what they write should really know better.

People do die from electrocution still. Even in the so called health and safety mad (not my opinion) UK. It’s not smallpox. We haven’t found a cure for it yet. We just have very good ways to minimise the risk.

No you don’t need a padlock if it’s in your home and you can guarantee without doubt that nobody will switch the power back on. Tell people what you are doing. Put a bit of tape over the switch. That really will be enough. In an industrial area if you do not lock off a device be it for power or movement and you are working in an area then You no longer have a job. This is considered better than the other potential outcome which is no longer having a pulse.

Prove the equipment. Does the current socket work? Is it a change for aesthetic reasons or reliability reasons? If the former. Plug something in to it. Turn off or remove the fuse that you think it should be. Does the item go off ? Turn it on and off a couple of times to see.
Use a non contact volt stick. Prove this works again by watching the differing results with the power on and off. Once the socket is off the wall, borrow a multimeter from a neighbour, ensure it is on The correct setting and test between live and neutral.
Again, if you cannot prove beyond doubt there is no mains there, stop. Don’t do it.
Once you are sure there is no power, you can change the socket. Be advised that older wiring colours are different, and be advised that you may find the current wires to be brittle if they’re quite old. Try not to repeatedly bend them as they can break.
If your socket is metal you’ll need to connect the earth to the front plate too. Check your work
place the new socket on the wall. Switch on the power. Plug something in and sit back and enjoy your new socket.

No rubber shoes and gentle touches of the wires are ever required because you’ve proved beyond doubt that there is no mains voltage present before you touch things.
Multimeters measure voltage in parallel across two points. If you put one end onto a wire you won’t get a shock from the other end providing the meter is set correctly and plugged into the correct holes.

Some generic multimeter and measuring advice. Voltage is measured in parallel across 2 points. Your multimeter should be plugged into the Voltage hole and the common hole. This is also used for measuring resistance and most other functions.
Current is measured in series. Using this includes a risk!!!!! For current the multimeter becomes part of the circuit. In this instance it IS possible to cause shock by improper use.