How different do freight shifts look to passenger service?

[2011dandd]

Hi all, as the title suggests im after a bit of insight into freight driving shifts and time off. I’m currently driving passenger service trains but would like to be in possession of the facts in terms of freight driving.
Cheers

 

[66701GBRF]

You will get different answers depending on the company and even at the same company you can get different answers depot by depot. At GB you can book on at any time of the day and with a few exceptions you can work 12 hour shifts from whenever you have booked on. Average is 4 days a week but can be rostered 5 days in a week in some parts of the roster. There is a minimum of 156 days off a year (based on a 4 day week) and they can be grouped together in as many as 5 or 6 days off in a row or as low as 1 or 2 days off per week.

 

[nb2001uk]

You will get different answers depending on the company and even at the same company you can get different answers depot by depot. At GB you can book on at any time of the day and with a few exceptions you can work 12 hour shifts from whenever you have booked on. Average is 4 days a week but can be rostered 5 days in a week in some parts of the roster. There is a minimum of 156 days off a year (based on a 4 day week) and they can be grouped together in as many as 5 or 6 days off in a row or as low as 1 or 2 days off per week.

is it true that GBs annual hours are like 1800 something? whereas FL/DB is at the 1560 mark

 

[43066]

Hi all, as the title suggests im after a bit of insight into freight driving shifts and time off. I’m currently driving passenger service trains but would like to be in possession of the facts in terms of freight driving.
Cheers

Guys I’ve spoken to on the freight are effectively permanent spare and will have days where they working and days off. Intermodal (ie container) type work is done according to a roster so the more similar to TOC work (albeit still with large movements possible), whereas depots which do a lot of possession work are less predictable.

Some freight companies also employ mobile drivers who will be moved around the country to sit in possessions at short notice, usually for a decent uplift in basic salary.

It wouldn’t suit me but very much horses for courses and those who do it seem to like it.

 

[martin2345uk]

On the container side at my FOC you're properly rostered as 43066 says above so you know what you're doing well in advance. Any Spare shifts you can be moved by up to 4 hours, if they want to move you more than that they have to ask you (and pay you extra).
Hardly any weekend work which is nice. Fair few nights of course...

 

[43066]

On the container side at my FOC you're properly rostered as 43066 says above so you know what you're doing well in advance. Any Spare shifts you can be moved by up to 4 hours, if they want to move you more than that they have to ask you (and pay you extra).
Hardly any weekend work which is nice. Fair few nights of course...

That sounds very decent, to be fair.

 

[martin2345uk]

It is, we "pay" for it via a lower basic salary of course, but with the additions and extras it soon adds up

 

[2011dandd]

Cheers for the replies guys. Interesting to hear from those in the job.

 

[66701GBRF]

is it true that GBs annual hours are like 1800 something? whereas FL/DB is at the 1560 mark

TMs and ATMs (drivers and shunters) who are on the 34.5hr p/week contract is about 1790 hours, but roughly 200 of that is annual leave. So the actual working hours about 1590. *RO's (cheaper shunters) are on a 39hr p/week contract and their hours are about 200 more per year.

*more fine work from Aslef.

 

[nb2001uk]

TMs and ATMs (drivers and shunters) who are on the 34.5hr p/week contract is about 1790 hours, but roughly 200 of that is annual leave. So the actual working hours about 1590. *RO's (cheaper shunters) are on a 39hr p/week contract and their hours are about 200 more per year.

*more fine work from Aslef.

ah right ok,thanks, I wonder if that's why FL/DB is only 1560 without the annual leave but if its 1760 with, @martin2345uk are you any the wiser?

 

[martin2345uk]

Fraid not, the Heavy Haul side is a mystery to me! @4F89 might know, he's all over that shizzle

 

[4F89]

Fraid not, the Heavy Haul side is a mystery to me! @4F89 might know, he's all over that shizzle

I go to work, sleep for a bit, drive for a bit, sleep for a lot, then get in a van home.

 

[43066]

Do you also get rest day work paid in one lump sum per year, rather than monthly? I seem to remember that was a thing at at least one FOC.

 

[4F89]

Rdw paid 4 weekly. Over contract hours paid yearly

 

[66701GBRF]

Do you also get rest day work paid in one lump sum per year, rather than monthly? I seem to remember that was a thing at at least one FOC.

GB Rest day worked can be paid either way but you have to make your choice early at the start of the contract.

 

[43066]

Rdw paid 4 weekly. Over contract hours paid yearly

GB Rest day worked can be paid either way but you have to make your choice early at the start of the contract.

Thanks both.

Difficult to imagine why anyone would want to be paid RDW yearly. What happens if you resign in that year or, God forbid, if the company goes bust towards the end of the year, you likely won’t get paid for any of the overtime you’ve done.

 

[ComUtoR]

Thanks both.

Difficult to imagine why anyone would want to be paid RDW yearly. What happens if you resign in that year or, God forbid, if the company goes bust towards the end of the year, you likely won’t get paid for any of the overtime you’ve done.

Potentially before your time but 'committed hours' works differently for FOCs than it did for some TOCs

 

[43066]

Potentially before your time but 'committed hours' works differently for FOCs than it did for some TOCs

It was indeed (thankfully). Am I right in thinking this where they’d refuse to pay for rostered overtime, based on the fact you’d been rostered less than your average hours on other days/weeks?

Not sure whether that’s what is being referred to above re. RDW being paid either monthly or yearly at the driver’s discretion.

 

[ComUtoR]

It was indeed (thankfully). Am I right in thinking this where they’d refuse to pay for rostered overtime, based on the fact you’d been rostered less than your average hours on other days/weeks?

It differers between TOCs and FOCs but at my TOC, all late running was added to committed hours, rest day working was paid. If you were 'amended' it was paid, if you were 'spare' it was committed hours. Leave was credited at a specific rate, sickness was credited at zero. It was an overly complex system that not many people understood. I was an outlier in that I liked committed hours Even with its flaws.

Not sure whether that’s what is being referred to above re. RDW being paid either monthly or yearly at the driver’s discretion.

A friend of mine worked for EWS some years ago and he explained their system as : Everything you work goes towards your contracted hours. Once you hit your 'committed hours' you either take the time off or its paid as overtime as a lump sum at the end of the year.

From what @4F89 posted; I translated that as RDW paid in the more traditional sense (monthly) and your amended hours over whatever the base is would get credited towards your annual hours and then claimed yearly. Imagine all those Spare turns getting banked till the end of the year :/

As @66701GBRF says, there are usually options as to how you are paid and what your options are.

My freight knowledge is not very good but that is my basic understanding of how contracted hours work. I will happily stand corrected on anything and my friend hasn't worked for freight for a number of years now so its probably a little out of date.

 

[ExRes]

A friend of mine worked for EWS some years ago and he explained their system as : Everything you work goes towards your contracted hours. Once you hit your 'committed hours' you either take the time off or its paid as overtime as a lump sum at the end of the year.

Spot on, I managed to tunnel out of Stalag EWS during 2000 so I'm sure things have changed since

The system was totally brilliant, if I was rostered on a 10 hour turn that I didn't sign I was often given a 6 hour job and got 10 hours for it, the driver I 'swapped' with then got 10 hours as well and they may well have been rostered less, in a good week I could get 12 or more hours for sitting on the train going home

The first couple of years I managed to do less than my contracted hours, as did others, while the money chasers were doing in excess of theirs leaving EWS paying two people for one persons hours, you just couldn't make it up

 

[ComUtoR]

My friend worked said there were many ways to skin the cat. Some Drivers would smash out hours and then take the rest of the year off, some Drivers would smash out all their hours during the winter months and then take the summer 'route learning' as overtime. What he would do was take all the time as leave and work 4 weeks on an then take 2 weeks off and go skiing. He balances his hours with leave.

I imagine each FOC has their own idiosyncrasies

 

[66701GBRF]

A friend of mine worked for EWS some years ago and he explained their system as : Everything you work goes towards your contracted hours. Once you hit your 'committed hours' you either take the time off or its paid as overtime as a lump sum at the end of the year.

That is how it used to be for us but thankfully they changed it a number of years ago so that contract hours and RDW hours are banked separately. Having them banked together does help you get to the end of contact quicker but also has a risk of you losing out if they start rostering you shorter turns.
.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Oct 2022 ==

Thanks both.

Difficult to imagine why anyone would want to be paid RDW yearly. What happens if you resign in that year or, God forbid, if the company goes bust towards the end of the year, you likely won’t get paid for any of the overtime you’ve done.

If you resign you will get what ever you are owed. Fair point on the company going bust but if you are working for one of the main lot it is unlikely. As for why, if you don’t need to live off OT then it’s a good way to save. One big ”happy cheque” in May then pay little or no tax for a few months. That’s how I used to have it but got tired of waiting for it all the time, especially if a big or sudden bill came up. Also your not earning interest on it (even if it’s a pittance) Happy cheque day was nice though!

 

[ComUtoR]

I've always been of the mindset that I don't actually want the money. If I was over my committed hours I was annoyed that I was working more than I was required. I was rarely over so I was happy that I was getting paid more than I actually worked.

With the new(ish) EU Holiday pay. I have the same mindset. Every penny paid is because I was working more than I was getting paid for. It's based on overtime and what the company 'owes' you. I'd rather have it that the company doesn't owe me anything and Ive worked less !

The FOC system of banked hours (committed/contracted) is a lot fairer than the TOC systems that I saw. Although, rostering you short shifts still shows how easy it is to manipulate the system.

'happy cheque' is a good way of looking at it. It's like a guaranteed bonus at the end of the year. Each to their own and its something to consider if you were moving to freight.

 

[class68fan]

ah right ok,thanks, I wonder if that's why FL/DB is only 1560 without the annual leave but if its 1760 with, @martin2345uk are you any the wiser?

DB use to be that no hours deducted when annual leave so not paid, while on leave still got paid four weekly 1/13 of salary, so hourly rate is higher when being paid overtime.

 

[Zontar]

It is, we "pay" for it via a lower basic salary of course, but with the additions and extras it soon adds up

Which foc is this please?

 

[martin2345uk]

Which foc is this please?

Freightliner.

 

[hiall]

I would stick with passenger at the moment giving the dire economic out look for the UK over the next few years!

 

[anglian96]

I'm currently on freight 32hrs a week contracted around 1560hrs a year. Over a 13 week roster we do 3 Saturdays which is around 5hr shift. Don't work Sundays at all. Shifts are varied throughout the 24hrs but id say most shifts are in social hours all but a few. We are paid every 4 weeks and Rest days are paid every 4 weeks or you can take them off your contracted hours and come the end of the year have it off or work the rest of the year on overtime your choice. Overtime rate is higher than standard rate to. None of that quartly nonsense. Many different trains we run so a decent route card and variety of work.

You work to a 13 week roster so you know what banding etc you'll be on well in advance but a weekly roster comes out every Friday to give you the jobs for the week but it will be within the banding you already have planned for. There is a 3 hr movement but 9/10 times they ask and if you agree they give you RDW

Extra payments for being based in london which is an additional 9% of your salary, travel allowances and if you voulenteer to work Sundays you'll get an additional payment on top. They've recently introduced a RDW incentive of an additional £65 a shift for voulenteering which helps!

 

[nb2001uk]

I'm currently on freight 32hrs a week contracted around 1560hrs a year. Over a 13 week roster we do 3 Saturdays which is around 5hr shift. Don't work Sundays at all. Shifts are varied throughout the 24hrs but id say most shifts are in social hours all but a few. We are paid every 4 weeks and Rest days are paid every 4 weeks or you can take them off your contracted hours and come the end of the year have it off or work the rest of the year on overtime your choice. Overtime rate is higher than standard rate to. None of that quartly nonsense. Many different trains we run so a decent route card and variety of work.

You work to a 13 week roster so you know what banding etc you'll be on well in advance but a weekly roster comes out every Friday to give you the jobs for the week but it will be within the banding you already have planned for. There is a 3 hr movement but 9/10 times they ask and if you agree they give you RDW

Extra payments for being based in london which is an additional 9% of your salary, travel allowances and if you voulenteer to work Sundays you'll get an additional payment on top. They've recently introduced a RDW incentive of an additional £65 a shift for voulenteering which helps!

may i ask what foc?

 

[Tyrion]

may i ask what foc?

I would wager that’s DB Cargo, they have significantly improved their conditions. My only concern about DB is they are no longer allowing new entrants to RPS Final Salary scheme, I believe it’s a defined contribution set up. Apart from that (is a big deal for me) DB would be a good FOC to work with at moment.