How did XC happen?

[ChiefPlanner]

I did wonder!

I wasn't though!

I appreciate your candid comments.....

 

[D1009]

Wow, thanks! Via, Crewe, Birmingham...?

Definitely not via Crewe, it would have gone Chester (reverse), Shrewsbury, Wolverhampton Low Level, Birmingham Snow Hill, Oxford and Reading West curve.

 

[30907]

Much has already been written, and I hesitate to add to a confused thread, but the late 60s to early 70s period hasn't been done to death. I mean the period from electrification to Birmingham to the introduction of the "regular interval" services with cross-platform interchange at New Street.

I don't have the timetables to hand so will stick to the Banbury route which I remember from student days at Oxford (and growing up on the Southern).

From 1967 (Bournemouth electrification having already closed West station, meaning that Poole was a sensible terminus) there were 3 Birmingham trains from/to the Southern, one from Southampton - later Poole - around 0900, the Poole-Newcastle and Leeds (dividing at Sheffield) late morning, and a Poole-Birmingham about 1640 (I remember Hymeks on that one). The only other significant train north from Oxford was a DMU about 0910.

From about 1972 or 73 some services via High Wycombe were transferred to the Oxford route, replacing Paddington-Oxford trains which were typically Inter-City DMUs.
When the interval timetable came in, the Poole-Birminghams became Poole-Liverpools but the frequency remained unchanged for another few years, and the Paddington-Birmingham service wasn't integrated into the Cross-country network initially.

Excuse the slightly vague description, but I hope it gives a general idea.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Couple of thoughts from this thread...

What was the significance of the 're-build of Birmingham New St'?

From when I started spotting (think around 1977/8), Paddington to New Street services were already going via Coventry and B'ham Intl. I think there may have been one, or possibly, two services that went via Dorridge and Solihull.

I also seem to remember Portsmouth Harbour services at some point, using 'Regional Railways' Class 158's. Can't remember their origin though. And whether this was pre, or post privatisation?

 

[PHILIPE]

My 1958 LMR timetable shows a daily Birkenhead-Bournemouth via Oxford and Reading West - complete with restaurant car throughout.
It took over 8 hours.
Also carried through carriages to Cardiff (via Shrewsbury presumably).

There was also a Birkenhead to Margate via Oxford, Reading and Redhill. It conveyed 3 portions, Brighton detached at Redhill and Dover at Ashford.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

What was the significance of the 're-build of Birmingham New St'?

As part of WCML electrification a number of larger stations were rebuilt. This being the 1960s meant the use of lots of concrete. Look at today's Euston, Coventry, Wolverhampton, Stafford and to a lesser degree Tamworth. However New Street suffered the double whammy of having a large shopping centre (The Pallasades) built on top of it. This transformed it from a traditional "railway cathedral" (ok, it wasn't that special but it did have an overall roof) to the concrete hell-hole at platform level that unavoidably continues to exist today. It was a large construction job which precluded any worthwhile service developments taking place until it was finished.

From when I started spotting (think around 1977/8), Paddington to New Street services were already going via Coventry and B'ham Intl. I think there may have been one, or possibly, two services that went via Dorridge and Solihull.

The Kenilworth route (Leamington to Coventry) was re-opened to regular passenger services to allow trains from the Banbury direction to serve Birmingham International en-route for New Street. International was a new station built to serve both the airport and the new NEC (opened February 1976) and was opened in January 1976. It was sometime before most cross-country services were re-routed that way and of course under Operation Princess the extra service on that axis from Birmingham went via Solihull.

I also seem to remember Portsmouth Harbour services at some point, using 'Regional Railways' Class 158's. Can't remember their origin though. And whether this was pre, or post privatisation?

Definitely a Virgin idea. They came from Liverpool or Blackpool and were introduced in May 1998, ie before Operation Princess. The fall-out from said debacle led to them being withdrawn 5 years later. ETA the traction for a spell was shortened HSTs, somewhat of a contrast to the 158s! A further check of my haulage records reveals that loco-hauled sets certainly made appearances and by the time the services were withdrawn Voyagers had taken over.

 

[Helvellyn]

The NE/SW route has already been mentioned many times, but I don't think anyone picked up on the fact that the fourth batch of HSTs (18 2+7 sets with only one TF) were ordered specifically for this routes. (Batch 1 had been WR Bristol/South Wales; Batch 2 ECML; and Batch 3 WR Devon & Cornwall.)

I'm not sure if the full 18 made it into service on NE/SW services, as some quickly ended up on the Midland Mainline and a few were disbanded to strengthen ECML sets (replacing Kitchen Cars) and then WR sets.

If I have looked things up correctly there were:

• 1984 - 15 sets
• 1985 - 13 sets
• 1986 - 13 sets
• 1987 - 12 sets
• 1988 - 14 sets (two Midland Mainline sets were in use on XC)
• 1989 - 12 sets
• 1990 - 12 sets
• 1991 - 12 sets
• 1992 - 23 sets (additional 11 sets released from ECML)

If BR had got its way it planned to order a second Batch of HSTs (a further 18) for CrossCountry services on the NW/SW and NW/SC corridors.

On the loco-hauled front InterCity upped its game in the 1980s introducing the "Scot" services, primarily via the WCML. The named trains were designed to promote the long distance journey opportunities. Some of these were 13 coach trains, e.g. BG-TSO-TSO-FK-TSO-TSO-RBR-TSO-TSO-FK-TSO-TSO-BG, splitting/joining at Carstairs. The BG and RBR were Mk 1; the FK (or BFK) Mk 2D; the TSOs Mk 2D or 2E.

• Cornish Scot - Glasgow/Edinburgh to Penzance via WCML
• Devon Scot - Glasgow/Aberdeen to Plymouth via WCML
• Unnamed - Glasgow/Edinburgh to Paignton via WCML (Usually Blue/Grey Mk 2C stock)
• Wessex Scot - Glasgow/Edinburgh to Poole via WCML
• Sussex Scot - Glasgow/Edinburgh to Brighton (Eastbourne on Summer Saturdays) via WCML
• Cornishman - Dundee to Penzance via ECML (HST)
• Devonian - Edinburgh to Plymouth via ECML (HST)
• Dorset Scot - Edinburgh to Poole via ECML (loco-hauled?)

Add to the mix that in Summer the "InterCity Holidaymaker" brand was very much in use. All the named trains actually dropped their name on a Summer Saturday to run as a "Holidaymaker" with all the destination/stoppng pattern window stickers so branded. You even had national "InterCity Holidaymaker" timetables listing all the services running, a number of which used borrowed stock (e.g. WCML loco-hauled Pullman sets, MML HSTs) on Summer Saturdays.

You also had experiments such as running trains via the West London Line (with Kensington Olympia promoted as a West London station) with trains such as Liverpool to Dover or Manchester to Brighton. Five Mk 2D TSOTs were converted to miniature Buffet Cars specifically for these services. They weren't a great success and after a few years switched to running via Oxford/Reading.

Then you had "The European" running from (I believe) Glasgow to Harwich Parkeston Quay via the North London Line, being electrically hauled throughout in its last couple of years.

As alluded to above ECML electrification saw CrossCountry nearly double its HST fleet and many of the WCML 'Scot' services became HST operated. At the same time the split/join at Carstairs went. In addition, the loco-hauled sets became shorter as fixed formations were introduced. This was partly to allow better timings, with a Class 47 hauling 7 coaches being able to keep much better than than one hauling 13 (though still not matching a HST).

By about 1992/93 the majority of the loco-hauled sets were formed RFB-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-BSO, with the RFBs being Mk 2F and the TSOs/BSOs being mainly Mk 2F/Mk 2E, with a few Mk 2Ds. These sets were split between Polmadie (Glasgow), Longsight (Manchester) and Etches Park (Derby). They operated some of the longer distance services (though most were HSTs) as well as much shorter runs like Birmingham-Manchester, Birmingham-Glasgow or Manchester-Edinburgh.

InterCity toyed with the idea of 1+5 HST sets for CrossCountry (rebuilding the TGS as DTGS) but this came to nothing. If the InterCity 250 project had gone ahead on the WCML then it is likely the displaced Mk 3 stock would have ended up with XC, possibly operating push-pull with new build Class 48 locomotives.

So in short, to sum up what a few people have identified:

• Initially inter-regional workings post-nationalisation.
• By 1970s Table 51 created grouping these inter-regional trains.
• Early 1980s saw HSTs ordered for NE/SW route.
• Mid 1980s saw mass of named trains to promote CrossCountry, with the Holidaymaker brand in use over the Summer.
• Early 1990s saw HST fleet double and loco-hauled fleet move to foxed formation trains of 7 coaches of refurbished air conditioned stock.

 

[SouthDevonian]

The evolution of Cross Country was gradual & complex. The roots lie in the following services:
> NW – Bournemouth / Poole: (i) LMS / SR route from Manchester & Liverpool via Crewe, Birmingham New St (+ TC from Sheffield}, Gloucester, Bath, Somerset & Dorset {used by the Pines Express}; (ii) GWR / SR route from Birkenhead Woodside via Chester, Shrewsbury, Birmingham Snow Hill, Oxford, Reading West, Basingstoke, Southampton.
> NW – Kent / Sussex coast: (i) LMS / SR route via WCML, Kensington Olympia to Brighton {the weekday service ceased before WW2}; (ii) GWR / SR route from Birkenhead Woodside via Chester, Shrewsbury, Birmingham Snow Hill, Oxford, Reading General; Redhill (divide with portion for Brighton, Eastbourne & Hastings), Tonbridge, Ashford (divide with portion for Canterbury, Ramsgate & Margate), Dover, Deal & Ramsgate.
> NW – West of England: LMS / GWR joint route from Manchester & Liverpool via Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Severn Tunnel, Bristol to Paignton /Kingswear / Plymouth / Penzance.
> Newcastle / York - Bournemouth / Poole: ER /former GC route via Sheffield Victoria, Nottingham Vic, Leicester Central, Banbury, Oxford, Reading West, Basingstoke, Southampton.
> Bradford FS – Bristol: via Leeds, Sheffield Mid, Birmingham NS, Lickey {used by Devonian which extended to Paignton}; from Newcastle via York, Pontefract, Sheffield Mid, etc.
> Wolverhampton LL - West of England: GWR route via Birmingham Snow Hill, Stratford upon Avon; Cheltenham, Bristol to Paignton /Kingswear / Plymouth / Penzance {used by the ‘Cornishman’}.

Key changes to these routes followed:
> Sept 1959: Birkenhead – Kent / Sussex Coasts train curtailed north of Wolverhampton.
> Sept 1962: (i) through services to/from the Midlands & North ceased over Somerset & Dorset and the Pines Express was diverted via former GWR route as far as Crewe (this replaced the former Birkenhead service); (ii) the Cornishman was re-routed via Lickey, New St, Derby to Sheffield Mid (this was the start of the run down of the GWR route via Stratford).
> Sept 1964: Wolverhampton – Kent / Sussex Coasts train ceased.
> March 1967: The freight connection between former GWR line and Midland line at Bordesley was significantly upgraded so that passenger trains from New St could access the line to Paddington & the South Coast via Leamington. This enabled (i) the York / Newcastle – Poole train to be re-routed from the former GC line to run via New St and reverse there; (ii) replacement of the Pines Express by new Birmingham – Bournemouth services to connect into the new electric Euston – Birmingham – Liverpool / Manchester services.
> In 1968, standard arrival & departure times at New St were introduced for NE-SW trains to connect with the Euston – Birmingham – Liverpool / Manchester services.
> In 1970, the NW – West of England trains were re-routed from the Severn Tunnel line via New St, although the number was reduced from 6 pairs to 4.
> In 1971, the Euston – Birmingham – Liverpool / Manchester services were curtailed at Birmingham and their paths to the north were taken by Cross Country trains which enabled cross platform changes at New St for XC services to & from the SW / South Wales / South Central Coast / NE / NW.

Since then, there have been many changes - many of which have already been described.

When Virgin took over the XC franchise they produced a useful history which I downloaded & will try to find & attach.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I found the Virgin document giving the XC history up to the time when they took over the franchise but it exceeds the Railforums attachment size limit. If anyone wants a copy by email, let me know.

 

[CarltonA]

An interesting train which I would tend to regard as a forerunner of the cross country service in spite it calling at London was the Manchester Piccadilly-Paddington service. Though it would often not get to London, being terminated at Reading or even Slough due to late running. This would involve a run round which was simple at Reading but caused a few problems at Slough.

 

[backontrack]

Definitely not via Crewe, it would have gone Chester (reverse), Shrewsbury, Wolverhampton Low Level, Birmingham Snow Hill, Oxford and Reading West curve.

Ah, I see. Thanks

 

[basfordlad]

Does anyone have internal photos of the first class coach/buffet mk2 ?

 

[EAD]

The trains ran to Poole (instead of terminating at Bournemouth) mainly for loco run-around and servicing in the sidings to the west of Poole station. There had long been (some) trains to Bournemouth from the 'North' via Bristol, Bath and the Somerset & Dorset route (look up the 'Pines Express'), plus some via the Great Central, Banbury and Reading (maybe via the Reading west avoiding curve). Eventually BR rationalised those workings into the 'via Birmingham and Reading' pattern we have today.

Yes, the 'via High Wycombe' train was the last remnant of the (old) GWR Paddington - Birmingham Snow Hill '2 Hour' express services.

I think the basic idea of the 1970s service pattern via Banbury was to interleave the Paddington and Poole trains, so that there was a roughly hourly service between Birmingham and Reading, serving the major stations between. At Reading you could then change for a service to Paddington, or a service to Basingstoke (then change again to get to Southampton & Bournemouth) if you were travelling at the 'wrong' hour for where you needed to get to.

I remember the Paddington to Banbury evening train down the GW/GC joint well (was it not itself cut back from Birmingham/Leamington in stages). My father always tried to get this home rather than the DMUs off of Marylebone. It was well loaded as the quickest and most comfortable train on the line at the time. I recall haulage by 50s and 47s and of course before total route modernisation it had passed to NSE to run. Of course I always appreciated going to the station to pick him up if he was on this train.

 

[Buttsy]

The use of the WMCL for the Brighton, Newhaven and Dover services through Kensington Olympia started in the May 1986. I'm just reading an article about them in the April 1986 edition of Modern Railways. There were 7 services each way via Olympia initially, 6 southbound and 7 northbound via the WMCL. It was at this point that Cross Country was officially adopted as the name for all the Table 51 NE-SW and NW-SE services.

 

[Cowley]

The use of the WMCL for the Brighton, Newhaven and Dover services through Kensington Olympia started in the May 1986. I'm just reading an article about them in the April 1986 edition of Modern Railways. There were 7 services each way via Olympia initially, 6 southbound and 7 northbound via the WMCL. It was at this point that Cross Country was officially adopted as the name for all the Table 51 NE-SW and NW-SE services.

I think they used 47487 in it's new Intercity livery on the inaugural service.