How did the 10:47 Bedford to Bletchley make up so much time?

[MikeT]

Last Friday the 10:47 Bedford to Bletchley was delayed crossing the River Ouse bridge. It arrived at Bedford St Johns 42 mins late. Fast forward 40 mins and 10 station stops later and the train arrived at Bletchley only 24 mins late. If it can be done once, why not retime the services 18 minutes quicker?

 

[_toommm_]

Last Friday the 10:47 Bedford to Bletchley was delayed crossing the River Ouse bridge. It arrived at Bedford St Johns 42 mins late. Fast forward 40 mins and 10 station stops later and the train arrived at Bletchley only 24 mins late. If it can be done once, why not retime the services 18 minutes quicker?

Because it skipped all the intermediate stations, meaning the time built in for it to slow down, stop at each station, and accelerate back to line speed (or as close to as needed depending on the distance between the stations) wasn't needed:

Realtime Trains | 2S10 1047 Bedford to Bletchley | 24/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2S10 1047 departure from Bedford to Bletchley on 24/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Jimini]

It ran non-stop:

Realtime Trains | 2S10 1047 Bedford to Bletchley | 24/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2S10 1047 departure from Bedford to Bletchley on 24/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

*EDIT* Beaten to it by @_toommm_ !

 

[lb001]

2S10 Bedford to Bletchley ran fast and did not call at any booked stations between Bedford St John’s and Bletchley on Friday 24th October, which is how it made up the time.

Realtime Trains | 1047 Bedford to Bletchley | 24/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 1047 departure from Bedford to Bletchley on 24/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Whisky Papa]

Deleted, duplicate thoughts of above posts.

 

[MikeT]

Because it skipped all the intermediate stations, meaning the time built in for it to slow down, stop at each station, and accelerate back to line speed (or as close to as needed depending on the distance between the stations) wasn't needed:

Realtime Trains | 2S10 1047 Bedford to Bletchley | 24/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2S10 1047 departure from Bedford to Bletchley on 24/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ha. I foolishly didn't spot "pass". What about the hundreds of passengers waiting for the train at Kempston Hardwick!!!!!

 

[DarloRich]

It didn't stop anywhere - compare that run with one of the freight trains and see what performance looks like. The empty stone train flies along the branch.

BTW - did it run in service? If so running non stop in service is a new one. I bet the sight of it flying through the local stations went down well!

 

[_toommm_]

Ha. I foolishly didn't spot "pass". What about the hundreds of passengers waiting for the train at Kempston Hardwick!!!!!

Probably made to wait did the next train. I can imagine the uproar from them all at such a massive hub station!

 

[The exile]

Last Friday the 10:47 Bedford to Bletchley was delayed crossing the River Ouse bridge. It arrived at Bedford St Johns 42 mins late. Fast forward 40 mins and 10 station stops later and the train arrived at Bletchley only 24 mins late. If it can be done once, why not retime the services 18 minutes quicker?

Even ignoring the explanation for this event, basing a plan (ie a timetable) on what is done once is a potential recipe for disaster. I have managed to get home from work in 44 minutes once - planning based on anything less than 75 is asking for trouble.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Ha. I foolishly didn't spot "pass". What about the hundreds of passengers waiting for the train at Kempston Hardwick!!!!!

If it's already nearly an hour late, the next one won't be far behind anyway

 

[bramling]

Last Friday the 10:47 Bedford to Bletchley was delayed crossing the River Ouse bridge. It arrived at Bedford St Johns 42 mins late. Fast forward 40 mins and 10 station stops later and the train arrived at Bletchley only 24 mins late. If it can be done once, why not retime the services 18 minutes quicker?

There’s generally quite little slack in timings these days.

If you look at schedules in something like RTTT, in general the only slack seen is various allowances (pathing, engineering or performance), and sometimes extra time built into station dwells. In general schedules without much of this will struggle to make up time unless something else applies, like a faster train provided compared to what the schedule is planned for, stations being skipped, or perhaps being routed on a fast line when booked on a slow line.

In olden times trains could make up time by treating speed limits a bit loosely, but you don’t see this nowadays. Or at least *very* rarely - I do remember a journey from King’s Cross to Hitchin about ten years ago on a pair of 321s where the train was being driven like a boy racer, but as an example of how rare it is this was about a decade ago and I haven’t experienced anything similar since. Back in the 90s in 317 days this was very common.

 

[Crithylum]

This train made up 7 minutes from Cambridge to Stansted. The 755 being literal cruise missiles helps, although the extensions to Stansted were only introduced after the 755 indroduction (iirc), so surely they should be timed for 755s?

Realtime Trains | 1K67 0927 Norwich to Stansted Airport | 23/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 1K67 0927 departure from Norwich to Stansted Airport on 23/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

It seems like these services are being sped up by 3 minutes in the December timetable change, despite adding a stop at Cambridge South

 

[Brubulus]

This train made up 7 minutes from Cambridge to Stansted. The 755 being literal cruise missiles helps, although the extensions to Stansted were only introduced after the 755 indroduction (iirc), so surely they should be timed for 755s?

Realtime Trains | 1K67 0927 Norwich to Stansted Airport | 23/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 1K67 0927 departure from Norwich to Stansted Airport on 23/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

It seems like these services are being sped up by 3 minutes in the December timetable change, despite adding a stop at Cambridge South

It probably got lucky at the airport tunnel, you usually have to wait for a Stansted Express service.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

This train made up 7 minutes from Cambridge to Stansted. The 755 being literal cruise missiles helps, although the extensions to Stansted were only introduced after the 755 indroduction (iirc), so surely they should be timed for 755s?

Realtime Trains | 1K67 0927 Norwich to Stansted Airport | 23/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 1K67 0927 departure from Norwich to Stansted Airport on 23/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

It seems like these services are being sped up by 3 minutes in the December timetable change, despite adding a stop at Cambridge South

30 second dwell at Audley End instead of 3 minutes, and 2 minutes of pathing time not needed (since due to being late the path would already be free) will be a lot of that saving

 

[dk1]

Back in the day I’ve easily made up 20 minutes on the East Suffolk line. Obviously speeds would be exceeded a bit but more importantly if the guard informed us there was nobody to get off we’d just slow down then whack it open and claw back a minute or so at lightly used stations such as Westerfield, Darsham & Brampton. The rest would be very brief stops with a buzz buzz & away. Sadly today the former would be classed as a fail to call resulting in disciplinary action.

 

[MontyP]

There’s generally quite little slack in timings these days.

If you look at schedules in something like RTTT, in general the only slack seen is various allowances (pathing, engineering or performance), and sometimes extra time built into station dwells. In general schedules without much of this will struggle to make up time unless something else applies, like a faster train provided compared to what the schedule is planned for, stations being skipped, or perhaps being routed on a fast line when booked on a slow line.

In olden times trains could make up time by treating speed limits a bit loosely, but you don’t see this nowadays. Or at least *very* rarely - I do remember a journey from King’s Cross to Hitchin about ten years ago on a pair of 321s where the train was being driven like a boy racer, but as an example of how rare it is this was about a decade ago and I haven’t experienced anything similar since. Back in the 90s in 317 days this was very common.

Surely it's the opposite? So many journeys seem to be padded these days to avoid being late at the ultimate destination. You only have to look at journey times vs 30 years ago to see this.

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely it's the opposite? So many journeys seem to be padded these days to avoid being late at the ultimate destination. You only have to look at journey times vs 30 years ago to see this.

This is a perception, and not reality.

There are only 5 types of timing allowances, and three of them (engineering time, pathing time, and adjustment time) are there to make the timetable fit together and in the first case to allow for temporary speed restrictions. There is more pathing time now than there used to be, but that is a function of there being more trains on the network.

The other two allowances are 1) performance allowance, which is designed to allow for minor delays that could reasonably be expected but the location of them will vary (eg all trains in the Welwyn viaduct area get a minute of performance allowance, and have done for a long time), and 2) public differentials, where the arrival time is advertised to passengers later than the working timetable. This latter one is the only one that can be reasonably said to be ‘padding’, and the amount of it in the timetable as a whole has fallen by almost 70% in the past few years.

 

[87015]

This is a perception, and not reality.

There are only 5 types of timing allowances, and three of them (engineering time, pathing time, and adjustment time) are there to make the timetable fit together and in the first case to allow for temporary speed restrictions. There is more pathing time now than there used to be, but that is a function of there being more trains on the network.

The other two allowances are 1) performance allowance, which is designed to allow for minor delays that could reasonably be expected but the location of them will vary (eg all trains in the Welwyn viaduct area get a minute of performance allowance, and have done for a long time), and 2) public differentials, where the arrival time is advertised to passengers later than the working timetable. This latter one is the only one that can be reasonably said to be ‘padding’, and the amount of it in the timetable as a whole has fallen by almost 70% in the past few years.

And slack SRTs and extended dwells, largely led by NR seniors inability to accept or understand aggregate running times because it doesn’t make their spreadsheet targets green so just want everything extended and massive extra PB.

 

[Bald Rick]

And slack SRTs and extended dwells, largely led by NR seniors inability to accept or understand aggregate running times because it doesn’t make their spreadsheet targets green so just want everything extended and massive extra PB.

I fundamentally disagree!

 

[The Planner]

And slack SRTs and extended dwells, largely led by NR seniors inability to accept or understand aggregate running times because it doesn’t make their spreadsheet targets green so just want everything extended and massive extra PB.

Are you geuinely suggesting all SRTs are taken in isolation? If anything dwells are too short and that is down to TOC practices.

 

[QueensCurve]

/Are you geuinely suggesting all SRTs are taken in isolation? If anything dwells are too short and that is down to TOC practices.

SRTs? TSRs?

 

[bluenoxid]

Sectional Running Times and Temporary Speed Restrictions.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

and 2) public differentials, where the arrival time is advertised to passengers later than the working timetable. This latter one is the only one that can be reasonably said to be ‘padding’, and the amount of it in the timetable as a whole has fallen by almost 70% in the past few years.

Yeah looking at RTT+ for Marylebone back in October 2020 it looks like the public times were in most cases 5 mins later. It’s actually pretty nice like that because obviously late is technically on time, and on a good day you can even be several minutes early while also technically being on time!

 

[Archvile]

This is a perception, and not reality.

There are only 5 types of timing allowances, and three of them (engineering time, pathing time, and adjustment time) are there to make the timetable fit together and in the first case to allow for temporary speed restrictions. There is more pathing time now than there used to be, but that is a function of there being more trains on the network.

Interesting, I never knew that. I always assumed the 'engineering allowance' was for using slow lines when the fasts are under possession, or to allow for crossover speeds etc.

 

[Taunton]

This is a perception, and not reality.

(commentary on "So many journeys seem to be padded these days to avoid being late at the ultimate destination. You only have to look at journey times vs 30 years ago to see this.")


Really? Well, let's look at reality. Someone above mentions the local East Suffolk Line, Ipswich to Lowestoft. It's 50 miles.

1982. 25-year old (then) rattling Modernisation Plan Met-Cam dmu with piddling little 150hp engines. Vacuum brakes. All stations, end to end 80 minutes.

2025. Brand new Class 755 demu with whacking great 1,290hp engine, modern air brakes. Wow, might it even make the run within the hour? And it's now ... 86 minutes. And that's from new trains introduced by what was regarded as one of the better operators.

 

[Brubulus]

(commentary on "So many journeys seem to be padded these days to avoid being late at the ultimate destination. You only have to look at journey times vs 30 years ago to see this.")


Really? Well, let's look at reality. Someone above mentions the local East Suffolk Line, Ipswich to Lowestoft. It's 50 miles.

1982. 25-year old (then) rattling Modernisation Plan Met-Cam dmu with piddling little 150hp engines. Vacuum brakes. All stations, end to end 80 minutes.

2025. Brand new Class 755 demu with whacking great 1,290hp engine, modern air brakes. Wow, might it even make the run within the hour? And it's now ... 86 minutes. And that's from new trains introduced by what was regarded as one of the better operators.

I would suspect this is due to increased dwells from sliding doors and lower line speeds as the line has decayed and standards have increased.

 

[The Planner]

Interesting, I never knew that. I always assumed the 'engineering allowance' was for using slow lines when the fasts are under possession, or to allow for crossover speeds etc.

It is for both, TSRs for after engineering work and during engineering work in your example.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2025 ==

(commentary on "So many journeys seem to be padded these days to avoid being late at the ultimate destination. You only have to look at journey times vs 30 years ago to see this.")


Really? Well, let's look at reality. Someone above mentions the local East Suffolk Line, Ipswich to Lowestoft. It's 50 miles.

1982. 25-year old (then) rattling Modernisation Plan Met-Cam dmu with piddling little 150hp engines. Vacuum brakes. All stations, end to end 80 minutes.

2025. Brand new Class 755 demu with whacking great 1,290hp engine, modern air brakes. Wow, might it even make the run within the hour? And it's now ... 86 minutes. And that's from new trains introduced by what was regarded as one of the better operators.

You can guarentee that will be professional driving policies where you aren't going to platforms at higher speeds and dwell times as noted.

 

[Bald Rick]

Really? Well, let's look at reality. Someone above mentions the local East Suffolk Line, Ipswich to Lowestoft. It's 50 miles.

1982. 25-year old (then) rattling Modernisation Plan Met-Cam dmu with piddling little 150hp engines. Vacuum brakes. All stations, end to end 80 minutes.

2025. Brand new Class 755 demu with whacking great 1,290hp engine, modern air brakes. Wow, might it even make the run within the hour? And it's now ... 86 minutes. And that's from new trains introduced by what was regarded as one of the better operators.

In the up direction, 3 minutes of that is waiting time at Beccles whilst trains cross in the new loop. That wasnt needed in 1982. The rest (and more) will be the reduced linespeed (max 55mph) and the various automated crossings that have linespeeds below that, in some cases down at 15 mph, and in one case (Darsham in the down) requires the train to stop short of the crossing before then proceeding into the station. None of that applied in 1982.

 

[dk1]

In the up direction, 3 minutes of that is waiting time at Beccles whilst trains cross in the new loop. That wasnt needed in 1982. The rest (and more) will be the reduced linespeed (max 55mph) and the various automated crossings that have linespeeds below that, in some cases down at 15 mph, and in one case (Darsham in the down) requires the train to stop short of the crossing before then proceeding into the station. None of that applied in 1982.

You do not have to stop short at Darsham before proceeding into the platform. Why Did you think that? it’s an AHB at Darsham.

 

[Bald Rick]

You do not have to stop short at Darsham before proceeding into the platform. Why Did you think that? it’s an AHB at Darsham.

Sorry, I have misread the sectional appendix, it‘s stop at the station before proceeding southbound from either platform. Of course trains that stop at the station for passenger calls stop anyway, but trains not calling there (test trains, rail head treatment, the occaisonal freight) all have to stop for the crossing southbound.

Nevertheless, there are plenty of speed restrictions for level crossings below the prevailing linespeed across the line - nearly 20 in each direction.