How could unsatisfactory branch shuttles be improved?

[nw1]

Yes! A look through the RPS (Railway Performance Society) archive sees a log timed by OS Nock from 1952 - the run was the 0942 Waterloo to Lymington Pier. A U1 2-6-0 from Waterloo to Brockenhurst and then a Class Q 0-6-0 onwards to the Pier. A return journey the same day. An undated run with a 2-HAP on a Lymington to Eastleigh service and a pair of 4-CIGs on a Lymington to Waterloo service - also undated and without a log.

There was definitely a 10:00 (time may have varied slightly depending on year) Summer Saturdays from Waterloo to Lymington through much of the 80s. This was typically 8VEP and ran from at least 1982 to 1986 inclusive. In 1982 the return was at 12:10. IIRC it took the path of one of the regular shuttles on the Brockenhurst-Lymington section.

I recall using it on the first Network Day, 21/6/86. We actually got a 10HAP special from Woking to Brockenhurst (a relief for the preceding regular REP/TC which was so full that it would not take any more passengers; presumably the 0945 out of Waterloo) and then picked the ex-Waterloo up at Brockenhurst for the branch.

Also from the same era, in the 1981-84 period, perhaps longer (may have lasted right until the introduction of 442s in 1988), there was an hourly Lymington to Eastleigh on Sundays calling at all stations. The Mon-Sat pattern of a Waterloo-Bournemouth stopper was replaced by four separate services on Sundays: a Basingstoke stopper; Micheldever and Shawford stops on the Reading-Portsmouth; Eastleigh-Lymington; and additional stops on the Bournemouth semi-fast.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I assume it would require independent tracks in tunnel from (say) Ladywell to south of Hither Green. Assuming the Hayes line is part of the package.

I'm not sure how the Bromley North branch and the Hayes line could ever both be part of the Bakerloo extension? Or are people thinking of two southern branches?

 

[30907]

I'm not sure how the Bromley North branch and the Hayes line could ever both be part of the Bakerloo extension? Or are people thinking of two southern branches?

People may not be, but I was - in response to a suggestion re Bromley North
Adding BMN would be hugely expensive of course.

 

[cle]

Although Beckenham Junction as a spur is still in the mix, as I understand it. South of Catford, 24tph+ are not needed. Whereas Lewisham, Catford and New Cross/OKR will easily attract the sort of patronage we see on the Victoria and Northern lines in South London. So even 24tph might not be enough.

So a three platform solution at Lewisham can turn 6tph, maybe Catford Bridge could be rebuilt for the same - but even then Hayes doesn't need all of the remainder. Beckenham Junction is a useful link to NR and Tram (Bromley and Croydon to Lewisham/DLR for one), and a suburban centre with some jobs and other local demand.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Although Beckenham Junction as a spur is still in the mix, as I understand it. South of Catford, 24tph+ are not needed. Whereas Lewisham, Catford and New Cross/OKR will easily attract the sort of patronage we see on the Victoria and Northern lines in South London. So even 24tph might not be enough.

So a three platform solution at Lewisham can turn 6tph, maybe Catford Bridge could be rebuilt for the same - but even then Hayes doesn't need all of the remainder. Beckenham Junction is a useful link to NR and Tram (Bromley and Croydon to Lewisham/DLR for one), and a suburban centre with some jobs and other local demand.

If a Bakerloo extension, still in tunnel at Lewisham, emerged around Ladywell to take over the Hayes branch, would there be a point in keeping the above-ground track connections from Ladywell back to St Johns and Lewisham, for diversions, freight via Beckenham Junction, and so on. If the Bakerloo - from where it surfaced near Ladywell onwards - used a 4-rail, but powered as 3-rail, system (as between Gunnersbury and Richmond), then this would be an option.

Also, a tube at Catford Bridge would reinforce the usefulness of having a proper modernised passenger interchange between Catford Bridge and Catford stations, given they're virtually next door to one another.

 

[30907]

If a Bakerloo extension, still in tunnel at Lewisham, emerged around Ladywell to take over the Hayes branch, would there be a point in keeping the above-ground track connections from Ladywell back to St Johns and Lewisham, for diversions, freight via Beckenham Junction, and so on.

I would have thought that even at weekends with an absolute minimum 4tph to Hayes and 4tph to Beckenham Jn it would be difficult to path the NR services. Trains would be better off diverted to Victoria, perhaps with a stop at Herne Hill for TL.