How could reliability of the Airedale and Wharfedale lines be improved?

[yorkie]

From another thread:

I hope in the future they can consider self contained diagrams so the train does 1 route all day or a mini triangle to keep delays localised rather than dragging the whole system down

As a permanent solution you'd need a couple of extra units (and crews) to operate the timetable - maybe only one if you could completely rewrite it (and as I recall from trying it years ago it's pretty much impossible).

This is what’s most likely going to happen when Leeds to Skipton and maybe Ilkley becomes a pair of 331/0s so that 6 coach trains can be guaranteed on this route and won’t be allocated to services from Bradford that would otherwise carry around a lot of fresh air.

I’d imagine that a pairs of 331/0s won’t need a leafall timetable as they will easily exceed the 333 timings which I’d imagine they’d keep in case there’s a substitution, as well as the fact that 2/3s of the bogies are powered rather than 1/2 resulting in better traction, as well as the motors being less powerful.

It's not just the timetable for Leeds North West services, you've also got to flight in the Harrogate Line arrivals and departures. It's quite impressive, really. Any rewrite would also have to take frequencies into account; do you cut Bradford to Skipton and Ilkley (and Leeds?) down to hourly, for example?


Is it? I thought it was going to be three-car sets during the day, strengthened to six at the peaks? The daytimes I caught Leeds to Skipton or Ilkley services they were always quiet (experiences of others may vary, of course).

Does anyone have any suggestions for how the service could be improved on the Airedale (Leeds/Bradford - Skipton) and Wharfedale (Leeds/Bradford - Ilkley) lines?

 

[Halish Railway]

- Double track Springs Jn to Apperley Bridge.
- Grade separate Apperley Jn and increase the linespeed of the turnout to 70mph.
- Install 3 aspect signalling on the Wharfedale line with approximately 1 mile long block sections.
- Recast the timetable so that Skipton to Bradford & Bradford to Leeds services don’t cross Shipley South Jn within 4 minutes of each other and so that the Bradford to Leeds & Skipton to Leeds services don’t depart within 7 minutes of each other.

 

[HowardGWR]

- Double track Springs Jn to Apperley Bridge.
- Grade separate Apperley Jn and increase the linespeed of the turnout to 70mph.
- Install 3 aspect signalling on the Wharfedale line with approximately 1 mile long block sections.
- Recast the timetable so that Skipton to Bradford & Bradford to Leeds services don’t cross Shipley South Jn within 4 minutes of each other and so that the Bradford to Leeds & Skipton to Leeds services don’t depart within 7 minutes of each other.

Just following your description, I found Spring Woods near what the Wikipedia entry calls it 'Esholt Junction' in its article on the 1892 collision there. Out of interest what is the official name of the junction. Hopefully not too off topic.

 

[Halish Railway]

Just following your description, I found Spring Woods near what the Wikipedia entry calls it 'Esholt Junction' in its article on the 1892 collision there. Out of interest what is the official name of the junction. Hopefully not too off topic.

Esholt Jn is where the branch to Bradford diverges, Springs Jn is where the line to Leeds narrows down from 2 tracks to 1.

 

[30907]

- Double track Springs Jn to Apperley Bridge.

ISTR the short tunnel(s) under Apperley Lane would be a problem; however, I agree that extending the double track that far would be worth it.

- Grade separate Apperley Jn and increase the linespeed of the turnout to 70mph.

Not a realistic possibility

- Install 3 aspect signalling on the Wharfedale line with approximately 1 mile long block sections.

A couple of additional signal sections would be useful

- Recast the timetable so that Skipton to Bradford & Bradford to Leeds services don’t cross Shipley South Jn within 4 minutes of each other and so that the Bradford to Leeds & Skipton to Leeds services don’t depart within 7 minutes of each other.

Xx25 and 55 from BDQ to LDS looks as though it would meet your second wish, at the risk of delaying the SKI-BDQ.
It would follow the Carlisle/Morecambe/freight path through East Jn instead of the Leeds-Skipton.
It might be prone to delay the down Leeds-Ilkley.

That's worth pursuing IMO and wouldn't require any infrastructure work, which is a decided plus.

 

[Halish Railway]

Xx25 and 55 from BDQ to LDS looks as though it would meet your second wish, at the risk of delaying the SKI-BDQ.

Is it really a risk if the service from Skipton currently has 18 minutes to turnaround at Skipton.

 

[30907]

Is it really a risk if the service from Skipton currently has 18 minutes to turnaround at Skipton.

It's the turnround at BDQ that matters - currently 20 into the Leeds which I'm retiming, so will be 15. That's still more than adequate, the Off-peak turnrounds generally are (except at Leeds the Bradford forming the Ilkley - but I've just increased that

Of course, if Leeds-Skipton and -Ilkley go to 6 cars then the arrangement at Leeds will need altering...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Prior to the wiring there were no Bradford to Leeds services, and the cycle was consistently Leeds -> Ilkley -> Bradford -> Skipton -> Leeds or the reverse. Not sure how it works in full now, but arrivals at Ilkley seem to return whence they came. I suspect that the Leeds to Bradford runs disrupted what was previously a well-organised method of working.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Not sure how it works in full now, but arrivals at Ilkley seem to return whence they came.

Not so long ago I remember seeing 3 separate units at Ikley, not sure how it will work once services go to 6 car 331s as the platforms are only long enough for 2 four car 333s!

Anyway according to Network Rails regional planning strategy:

'How can forecast growth and partners’ aspirations be accommodated in the Leeds Area up to 2043? Continuous Modular Strategic Planning April 2020

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/Eastern/Leeds%20Area%20Strategic%20Study%202020.pdf

this is what is being considered:

"Reconfigure Armley Junction either as Flat Junction (a) or Grade Separated Junction (b). Install new X and Y lines to the north of the A and B lines between Armley Junction and Leeds Station."

"Two track the current single line between Springs Junction and Apperley Junction."

"Four track the current two track line between Apperley Junction and Armley Junction."

"Extend Platform 3 to 160m." (Bradford FS)

Page 18

 

[asw22]

Prior to the wiring there were no Bradford to Leeds services, and the cycle was consistently Leeds -> Ilkley -> Bradford -> Skipton -> Leeds or the reverse. Not sure how it works in full now, but arrivals at Ilkley seem to return whence they came. I suspect that the Leeds to Bradford runs disrupted what was previously a well-organised method of working.

Based on my experience, I seem to think that the standard weekday off peak workings are;
Leeds > Skipton > Leeds > Bradford > Skipton > Bradford > Ilkley > Bradford > Leeds > Ilkley > Leeds

Each journey takes between 25 to 45 minutes and the interworking probably reduces the number of units required fitting the journeys together like a jigsaw.

On Sundays I think that the same units tend to stay on the same routes (eg Skipton to Leeds and back) so I don't think there is interworking.

 

[Halish Railway]

Not so long ago I remember seeing 3 separate units at Ikley, not sure how it will work once services go to 6 car 331s as the platforms are only long enough for 2 four car 333s!

Anyway according to Network Rails regional planning strategy:
"Reconfigure Armley Junction either as Flat Junction (a) or Grade Separated Junction (b). Install new X and Y lines to the north of the A and B lines between Armley Junction and Leeds Station."

"Four track the current two track line between Apperley Junction and Armley Junction."

"Extend Platform 3 to 160m." (Bradford FS)

Page 18

With regards to platform sharing at Ilkley, the first train of the day from Ilkley could be a single 331/0 which can join up to another one at Leeds.

I’m assuming that the ‘X & Y’ lines will be used by Harrogate line trains to widen Leeds’ western throat and remove a conflict at Armley Jn. 4 tracking as far as Apperley Jn gives us an opportunity to build more stations on the new slow lines e.g. Calverley which could be served more frequently as two-tracking Apperley Jn to Springs Jn allows for more frequent trains to run along there, with some running non-stop to Guiseley & some stopping, maybe these stopping trains could go to Otley if the line reopened.

Altenatively, four tracking Armley Jn to Apperley Jn and having the for tracks designated as Up-Wharfedale, Down-Wharfedale, Up-Airedale & Down-Airedale means that Apperley Jn wouldn’t have to be grade separated & instead the Wharfedale lines would join the new ‘X & Y’ lines at Armley Jn. Although new platforms would have to be built on all for tracks.

Then there’s the question of what to do with the freight trains; Hunslet to Rylstone is a route that could switch over to electric traction, with some short wiring at the Hunslet end and Skipton to Rylstone wired with a single wire to save money on raising bridges which is possible as the linespeed doesn’t exceed 20mph.

Had Skipton to Ilkley still been open, the Rylstone limestone trains could go that way, thus avoiding having a 1/4 mile long train trundling over Shipley East & West Jn. Hopefully the climb from Apperley Jn to Guiseley wouldn’t have been much of a problem as the wagons would be empty.

 

[JRT]

Based on my experience, I seem to think that the standard weekday off peak workings are;
Leeds > Skipton > Leeds > Bradford > Skipton > Bradford > Ilkley > Bradford > Leeds > Ilkley > Leeds

Each journey takes between 25 to 45 minutes and the interworking probably reduces the number of units required fitting the journeys together like a jigsaw.

On Sundays I think that the same units tend to stay on the same routes (eg Skipton to Leeds and back) so I don't think there is interworking.

No it's not, a few years ago they put in extra layover time at Bradford, journeys run

Leeds -> Bradford -> Ilkley -> Bradford -> Skipton -> Bradford -> Leeds -> Ilkley -> Leeds -> Skipton -> Leeds -> Bradford (etc. )

Sundays

Leeds -> Ilkley -> Bradford -> Ilkley -> Leeds -> Bradford -> Leeds etc. with other services as standalone.

 

[xotGD]

I've suggested the following before and it hasn't been popular. Nevertheless I'll try again:

- Make Leeds - Skipton every 15 minutes.
- Get rid of Leeds - Bradford and Bradford - Skipton
- Replace them with a Shipley - Bradford shuttle.

 

[geordieblue]

I've suggested the following before and it hasn't been popular. Nevertheless I'll try again:

- Make Leeds - Skipton every 15 minutes.
- Get rid of Leeds - Bradford and Bradford - Skipton
- Replace them with a Shipley - Bradford shuttle.

What about Bradford-Ilkley?

 

[daodao]

I've suggested the following before and it hasn't been popular. Nevertheless I'll try again:

- Make Leeds - Skipton every 15 minutes.
- Get rid of Leeds - Bradford and Bradford - Skipton
- Replace them with a Shipley - Bradford shuttle.

It wouldn't be popular as it forces unnecessary changes of trains at Shipley, where the triangular layout means significant distances between platforms.

 

[Halish Railway]

I've suggested the following before and it hasn't been popular. Nevertheless I'll try again:

- Make Leeds - Skipton every 15 minutes.
- Get rid of Leeds - Bradford and Bradford - Skipton
- Replace them with a Shipley - Bradford shuttle.

How’s this for a more ambitious idea
- Add a Leeds to Keighley service (reversing in a turnback), calling at all stations except for Kirkstall Forge due to capacity constraints.
- Accelerate the Leeds to Skipton service to run non stop to Keighley, however, path it in a way such that it arrives into Keighley around five minutes after the stopping service from Leeds arrives and departs five minutes before the stopping service back to Leeds.

Having the stopping service reverse in a turnback means that a same platform interchange is possible. If people from Shipley, Saltaire, Bingley & Crossflatts want a direct service to stations beyond Keighley then that is still possible with a service from Bradford. The main benefit for people from the aforementioned stations is that when they board their Leeds train it would be very quite.

If the Wharfedale line has better signalling, Springs Jn to Apperley Jn is two-tracked & Apperley Jn to Armley Jn is four-tracked then I would introduce a new 2 tph service, preferably from a reopened Otley line to Leeds calling at all stations, including any new stations along the line, thus giving these stations a link to the Wharfedale line.

All of this should be possible with 4-car trains, thus meaning that no platform extensions are required. Let me know what you think!

 

[JRT]

The current network is fairly straightforward with consistent stopping patterns for most of the day, so would probably complicate matters with the following suggestions:

Leeds–Bradford
1 all stations
1 semifast (Shipley only) *

Leeds – Skipton
1 all stations
1 semifast (Steeton and Silsden)
1 diesel semifast (+ Steeton and Silsden)

Bradford–Skipton
1 all stations
1 semifast

* to encourage travel on this route, as the 26-minute journey is now longer than that via Bramley

I haven't looked at the journeys in detail regarding junction conflicts, so not sure if it is workable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2021 ==

I've suggested the following before and it hasn't been popular. Nevertheless I'll try again:

- Make Leeds - Skipton every 15 minutes.
- Get rid of Leeds - Bradford and Bradford - Skipton
- Replace them with a Shipley - Bradford shuttle.

Never a popular suggestion.

However one idea I had was to replace most Bradford–Shipley trains as follows:

A tram or tramtrain running frequently from Bradford* , through Baildon, and on to Yeadon Airport
(with interchange points at Shipley and Guiseley)

* this could start at a new Bradford St James station

 

[Ianno87]

It wouldn't be popular as it forces unnecessary changes of trains at Shipley, where the triangular layout means significant distances between platforms.

Do 4tph from Leeds to Skipton (one way only), 4tph from Skipton to Bradford (one way only) and 4tph from Bradford to Leeds (one way only). Everybody gets 4tph, with a level interchange at Shipley in the direction that is not directly served.

 

[daodao]

Do 4tph from Leeds to Skipton (one way only), 4tph from Skipton to Bradford (one way only) and 4tph from Bradford to Leeds (one way only). Everybody gets 4tph, with a level interchange at Shipley in the direction that is not directly served.

That is bizarre and would be confusing to passengers.

 

[Ianno87]

That is bizarre

Yes, it is certainly thinking differently, not 'traditionally'

and would be confusing to passengers.

Would it be? The current service pattern is itself pretty complicated. I wonder how many people today get on the Bradford train when they meant to go to Leeds, etc.

Sounds pretty simple to explain to me (and phone apps for the rest will tell them what to do).

People don't, for example, get confused by the various Dinting/Glossop/Hadfield service patterns.

People will be more happy about getting 4tph regardless of what journey they are doing. Truly turn up and go, throw away the timetable territory.

 

[JRT]

That is bizarre and would be confusing to passengers.

There are many people who are confused by the current network, so probably not much worse. I suppose the advantage is that it's a consistent destination. But many people are set in their ways and look for an identical journey in each direction.
There are many who choose to change at Shipley as it may be a quieter train.
There are also many more who won't change even if it means waiting or not traveling at all.

 

[30907]

We are drifting off reliability issues, so I will throw in:
1. retime Leeds-Bradford to connect into Bradford-Skipton (not sure this is practicable though).
2. fill in the gaps on the Carlisle/Morecambe service with Leeds-Skipton semi-fasts, giving the principle stations 4tph from Leeds - ideally these should follow not precede the stoppers, to balance the loadings, so leave Leeds about xx06/36.
(Actually, doing #2 means you don't need #1...)

 

[Ianno87]

In this day and age of bi-mode trains, I wonder whether a semi-fast bi-mode service to Settle-ish would would work, doubling as a regular semi-fast inwards of Skipton.

 

[30907]

In this day and age of bi-mode trains, I wonder whether a semi-fast bi-mode service to Settle-ish would would work, doubling as a regular semi-fast inwards of Skipton.

Not sure demand is high enough for 2tph beyond Skipton.

 

[JRT]

We are drifting off reliability issues, so I will throw in:
1. retime Leeds-Bradford to connect into Bradford-Skipton (not sure this is practicable though).
2. fill in the gaps on the Carlisle/Morecambe service with Leeds-Skipton semi-fasts, giving the principle stations 4tph from Leeds - ideally these should follow not precede the stoppers, to balance the loadings, so leave Leeds about xx06/36.
(Actually, doing #2 means you don't need #1...)

1. Would be good, the Bradford–Skipton tends to follow the Leeds–Skipton local so doesn't tend to pick up many after Shipley.
2. The diesels connect with other trains later on so have to run at that time. Paths are also used for goods trains so can't run every half hour. The afternoon peak sees the stopper preceding the diesels so perhaps using that times all day?

 

[Ianno87]

Not sure demand is high enough for 2tph beyond Skipton.

I didn't say 2tph. Perhaps 1tph with some sort of splitting/joining of Lancaster/Carlisle portion.

 

[xotGD]

I like the idea of a Keighley starter / terminator. However it would not give me a more frequent direct service to/from Leeds so I will stick with my suggestion.

Just to add: Bradford - Ilkley and Leeds - Ilkley to stay as they are.

 

[Halish Railway]

I like the idea of a Keighley starter / terminator. However it would not give me a more frequent direct service to/from Leeds so I will stick with my suggestion.

I’ve never thought that frequency on the Airedale line was much of a problem, just overcrowding.

Starting/terminating at Keighley and accelerating the existing Leeds to Skipton means that flows into Leeds from various places can be separated out and also avoids the various capacity problems beyond Keighley, such as platform space and conflicts at Skipton & having the two level crossings’ barriers down for extended periods of time.

Here’s another question; Could Skipton to Ilkley realistically reopen with the business case of re-routing freight trains that way to avoid the conflicts in the Shipley area, as well as trains from beyond Skipton if the SELRAP route reopens with frequent trains to Leeds which cannot be accommodated on the Airedale line?

 

[YorksLad12]

I’ve never thought that frequency on the Airedale line was much of a problem, just overcrowding.

Starting/terminating at Keighley and accelerating the existing Leeds to Skipton means that flows into Leeds from various places can be separated out and also avoids the various capacity problems beyond Keighley, such as platform space and conflicts at Skipton & having the two level crossings’ barriers down for extended periods of time.

Here’s another question; Could Skipton to Ilkley realistically reopen with the business case of re-routing freight trains that way to avoid the conflicts in the Shipley area, as well as trains from beyond Skipton if the SELRAP route reopens with frequent trains to Leeds which cannot be accommodated on the Airedale line?

Realistically, no. It probably couldn't unrealistically reopen either; you'd have to take out the car park and supermarket (if it's still there) and find a way round or through (neither very likley) the buildings between the station and former alignment north of the A65. Then you'd have to get through Addingham, and nerf the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Steam Railway out of the way. It would have been a good diversionary / alternative route in 1965 when it closed, but 'impossible' to do now.

We're trying to solve a couple of issues here, it seems. One is the reliability, one is the capacity. Such is life, we'll fix the former then ruin it with more trains to try and fix the latter! But I wouldn't get rid of the Leeds-Bradford all-stops service. For one thing it acts as an alternative to the Calder Valley route, for another it handles the stops at Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge - which means the Skipton and Ilkley trains don't need to. I would have built KF on passing loops to allow the other trains to overtake if necessary, and I think there may be space to do that in the (far) future.

 

[Halish Railway]

We're trying to solve a couple of issues here, it seems. One is the reliability, one is the capacity. Such is life, we'll fix the former then ruin it with more trains to try and fix the latter! But I wouldn't get rid of the Leeds-Bradford all-stops service. For one thing it acts as an alternative to the Calder Valley route, for another it handles the stops at Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge - which means the Skipton and Ilkley trains don't need to. I would have built KF on passing loops to allow the other trains to overtake if necessary, and I think there may be space to do that in the (far) future.

You can add in the issue of future-proofing to accommodate services that will use re-opened lines.

Regarding Kirkstall Forge, if the line through there is four-tracked, it will most likely be arranged as Up-Wharfedale, Down-Wharfedale, Up-Airedale & Down-Airedale, rather than Up-slow, Up-fast, Down-fast & Down-slow, making it a bit of a pain to include passing loops, unless the station could have been built like Brent Cross (Thameslink) with Island platforms.