How could Merseyrail improve post-777 introduction?

[baldyman26]

mods note - split from this thread

Merseyrail 777 discussion

Now that the introduction of all units has been completed (and introduction thread closed), it seems worthwhile to open a new thread for ongoing discussions and issues relating to the 777s. For example, I believe we still have 777004 out of service as it has been cannibalised for parts for a...

www.railforums.co.uk

The embarrassment isn't Merseyrail's though, although publicly it's clear they have to take the heat away from the high ups . The Mayor (City Region) bought trains that he knew wouldn't fit, didn't buy enough trains, bought the most unreliable trains in the country, hasn't ensured the infrastructure changes happened in time. Merseyrail can't train drivers if even the basics aren't there. I'm sure they aren't blameless, but they can only work with the cards they were dealt with.... Let's bring it back under local control, well they are the reason the trains are in this mess so advocate that at our peril.

 

[Djgr]

The embarrassment isn't Merseyrail's though, although publicly it's clear they have to take the heat away from the high ups . The Mayor (City Region) bought trains that he knew wouldn't fit, didn't buy enough trains, bought the most unreliable trains in the country, hasn't ensured the infrastructure changes happened in time. Merseyrail can't train drivers if even the basics aren't there. I'm sure they aren't blameless, but they can only work with the cards they were dealt with.... Let's bring it back under local control, well they are the reason the trains are in this mess so advocate that at our peril.

On the other hand, you would have thought that the people whose sole purpose in life is building working trains would have built a working train.

 

[bahnause]

The embarrassment isn't Merseyrail's though, although publicly it's clear they have to take the heat away from the high ups . The Mayor (City Region) bought trains that he knew wouldn't fit, didn't buy enough trains, bought the most unreliable trains in the country, hasn't ensured the infrastructure changes happened in time.

The Merseyrail Class 777 trains were ordered by Merseytravel, the Liverpool City Region’s transport authority in 2016.

 

[Djgr]

The Merseyrail Class 777 trains were ordered by Merseytravel, the Liverpool City Region’s transport authority in 2016.

And of course that was before the current mayor became mayor!

Still let's not let facts get in the way of prejudice.

And no he's not got the name of a Yorkshire town, as a 3 second Google search would reveal.

 

[31160]

Yeah this is all a bit like the 398 thread blame the politicians and not the people that actually made them

 

[baldyman26]

Why can't we blame the politicians. They are in charge, the Mayor as the figurehead is there when it's going well, nowhere to be seen when it isn't, unless he can blame others.
They are spending "our" money, and we've been left short changed. So where is the public declaration of getting our cash back, seaking compensation for the tax payer, holding them all to task like when we had the ice issues..

Stadler seem to be blameless too, although I suppose they feel they delivered what was ordered. So someone has been very short-sighted somewhere.

 

[Northerngirl]

The 8 car problems seem to be entirely on merseyrail, but the software is surely on stadler, I know for a fact if I biult somthing this shoddy I would be in trouble, it just seems catastrophically amateur

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 8 car problems seem to be entirely on merseyrail, but the software is surely on stadler, I know for a fact if I biult somthing this shoddy I would be in trouble, it just seems catastrophically amateur

It certainly strikes me that the various issues of these units are more characteristic of something like AnsaldoBreda than Stadler, given the high build quality of these units elsewhere.

I wonder was there pressure to cut costs from Merseytravel?

 

[baldyman26]

The 8 car problems seem to be entirely on merseyrail, but the software is surely on stadler, I know for a fact if I biult somthing this shoddy I would be in trouble, it just seems catastrophically amateur

They aren't though, the selective door stuff is on Merseytravel and Stadler. If it's not working then Merseyrail can't use it, thus can't train drivers. They wouldn't choose to not stop at stations, or leave passengers behind on the Chester lines for that matter. Pretty sure if Merseyrail could, they would speak out. Clearly not allowed

 

[jamesst]

Enough people are trained on it by now. The problem of asdo not coming into operation is competency runs out after 6 months...

 

[Ellis101]

Whoevers to blame there needs to be questions asked.

There's been weeks and months of gaps where the 8 car tests from Kirkdale to Liverpool South Parkway just haven't happened when they used to be every other day for a long time.

They also went and fully removed all signs of the future timetable, reverting to Southport with no communication and ZERO consultation.

To me, it seems like Merseyrail have given up, and it's just not good enough.

I found this article from 8 months ago.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/new...ails-temporary-timetable-change-back-32284646

We asked the Liverpool City Region Transport Authority for an update on the situation on the Northern Line and questioned when things may return to normal.

Transport bosses could not give us a time-frame for when the ongoing testing will be completed and the timetable will revert - but suggested the changes will only continue in the "short-term".

 

[childwallblues]

I actually prefer Hunts Cross trains going to Ormskirk but that is a personal thing as it provides a link to Preston.

 

[Formby EMU Fan]

I was travelling on the Liverpool-Southport line yesterday among all the Beachgoers on a nearly full 4 car unit. At the station I noticed that the following 2 trains were also 4-car units.

Out of curiosity I have just looked at the 4/8 car allocation on this line (now that RTT shows this information and unit numbers). It appears that on weekdays Merseyrail allocates 4 4-car units, followed by 4 8-car units (utilising 12 units in total). This appears bizarre to me when you think of the passenger throughput throw-out the day. Would it not be better to run an alternating 4-car/8-car pattern? That way, if a 4-car unit arrives at your station overfull, at least the passenger can make the choice whether to wait 15 minutes for the following 8-car.

A similar pattern runs on Sundays using 2 4-cars followed by 2 8-cars (at 30 minute intervals utilising 6 units total), meaning if 2 4-car diagrams are full (e.g, due to local sunshine, football matches, etc), passengers can wait up to an hour before an 8-car arrives.

Why do Merseyrail plan there diagrams this way?

 

[simonmpoulton]

Whoevers to blame there needs to be questions asked.

There's been weeks and months of gaps where the 8 car tests from Kirkdale to Liverpool South Parkway just haven't happened when they used to be every other day for a long time.
They also went and fully removed all signs of the future timetable reverting back to Southport with no communication and ZERO consultation.

To me it seems like Merseyrail have given up and it's just not good enough.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/new...ails-temporary-timetable-change-back-32284646
Found this article from 8 months ago.

Transport bosses could not give us a time-frame for when the ongoing testing will be completed and the timetable will revert back - but suggested the changes will only continue in the "short-term".

I do know the reason why this hasn't happened yet but it was told to me in confidence and I won't be posting it here in public. All I will say is that given time it will eventually happen.

 

[Formby EMU Fan]

When Merseyrail trains run semi-fast, for example, during shuttle runs to special events (such as The Open at The Royal Birkdale golf club), aren't they supposed to announce the next stop before closing the train doors to allow passengers who boarded in error to get off? Yesterday I got on one in error and the train (which was an 8-car unit full to capacity) sailed passed my stop and took me into the next Travel Zone, therefore costing me extra money as I was using Tap & Go. Whoever made the announcement (TM or Driver) did not do so until the train was actually moving. Very frustrating for the customer!

 

[Djgr]

When Merseyrail trains run semi-fast, for example, during shuttle runs to special events (such as The Open at The Royal Birkdale golf club), aren't they supposed to announce the next stop before closing the train doors to allow passengers who boarded in error to get off? Yesterday I got on one in error and the train (which was an 8-car unit full to capacity) sailed passed my stop and took me into the next Travel Zone, therefore costing me extra money as I was using Tap & Go. Whoever made the announcement (TM or Driver) did not do so until the train was actually moving. Very frustrating for the customer!

Did it not say on the departure board or the onboard screens?

 

[bramling]

I was travelling on the Liverpool-Southport line yesterday among all the Beachgoers on a nearly full 4 car unit. At the station I noticed that the following 2 trains were also 4-car units.

Out of curiosity I have just looked at the 4/8 car allocation on this line (now that RTT shows this information and unit numbers). It appears that on weekdays Merseyrail allocates 4 4-car units, followed by 4 8-car units (utilising 12 units in total). This appears bizarre to me when you think of the passenger throughput throw-out the day. Would it not be better to run an alternating 4-car/8-car pattern? That way, if a 4-car unit arrives at your station overfull, at least the passenger can make the choice whether to wait 15 minutes for the following 8-car.

A similar pattern runs on Sundays using 2 4-cars followed by 2 8-cars (at 30 minute intervals utilising 6 units total), meaning if 2 4-car diagrams are full (e.g, due to local sunshine, football matches, etc), passengers can wait up to an hour before an 8-car arrives.

Why do Merseyrail plan there diagrams this way?

The most likely reason is because specific services on the diagram require an 8-car train. For example if they wish to have all 8-car trains going north from Liverpool Central in the evening high peak. I’ve no idea if that’s the reason, but it would seem the most probable.

 

[Formby EMU Fan]

Did it not say on the departure board or the onboard screens?

Departure boards, most likely, but I arrived on the platform (which was very busy) as the train was approaching so didn’t have time to study stations calling list, and I was more concerned about where there was space to allow me to board (leading to my error). If an announcement was made at this point I would have got off and waited for the next one. As I said above, no announcement was made until train was moving at which point it was too late.However, I replanned my evening and worked out (via the onboard screens) that if I didn’t get off at Waterloo I would end up in Liverpool town centre.

 

[MattRat]

Lessons need to be learned that infrastructure is important.

If Cressington had been extended (like originally planed), and third rail laid between Kirkby and Heabolt Lane, so many problems could have been avoided.

Also, while they did upgrade power supply, nothing else was upgraded on the line as far as I'm aware, so you have brand new trains trying to talk to an archaic system, and that is always going to cause issues.