How could Hornby improve?

[61653 HTAFC]

That would be terrible, how do you think they should improve?

mods note - split from this thread

It would be terrible for anyone who ended up losing their job as a result, but it wouldn't kill the hobby. They've made so many mistakes that they deserve a boot up the proverbial- hopefully not a terminal one, but if it was they've only themselves to blame.

In terms how they can save themselves:
1) Give up on the silly licensing deals for things that are unrelated to model railways. No more daft Coca-Cola items or Beatles train packs... and especially no tie-ins that Hornby don't even own the rights to!
2) Review everything in their range that they still have the ability to produce, and have some proper demarcation between the "Railroad" range and the full-fat Railways stuff. Anything with tooling over 20 years old from long-dead brands such as Lima and the old incarnation of Dapol should be strictly Railroad only or discontinued entirely. No more ancient models with goalpost couplings being sold as if it's a premium model. In fact even the Railroad stuff should be upgraded to have NEM couplings in pockets, or modern slimline couplers if some models can't be adapted to have the pockets.
3) improve the quality control. Models should not be showing up with glaring paint errors or massive glue spills, regardless of which range it's sold as... and the preposterous issues with the TT:120 curves should never have been allowed to happen.
4) Unless they're a huge source of revenue, no more documentaries. If you can't get the basics right, broadcasting your errors into millions of homes is just about the worst way to exacerbate those errors. Now if Hornby can be turned around, a documentary about that would be worthwhile... but you have to do it first!
5) Swallow your pride and admit you screwed up. There are many in the modelling community who have your back, don't keep making it difficult for them to defend you.
6) Give the people what they want- Offer a greater range of starter sets covering multiple eras, like in the 1980s and 1990s. Keep the prices of the starter sets as low as possible- they should be "loss leaders".

 

[Cowley]

Worth a separate topic I thought, so I’ve split it off.

 

[Iskra]

I agree with a lot of what @61653 HTAFC has said, particularly around the demarcation of railroad and main range. I don't think there's any issue selling some of the older tooled models, but they should be priced accordingly and that's where Hornby are going wrong. If you pay a lot of money for an average model, you'll probably only do that once and be more likely to shop around in future, and you certainly aren't going to buy a second one of the same product.

I think Hornby, as the entry retailer for many should offer a decent 37, 47 and Mk1 carriage. It doesn't have to be up there with the best of Bachmann or Accurascale but it should be at least up to modern standards.

I also think Hornby needs to win back a strong foothold in modern image, as that's where it is being out-competed currently and that's the future of the hobby, as those who remember steam are fewer and fewer. This is where the competition is eating away at its market share. An updated Pendolino, Eurostar or an Electrostar would be easy wins.

They should also give up one-off commemorative/fictional liveries. The Silver Jubilee HST being a prime example of wasted production slots that could have been used for something much better.

I'd probably also slow down on TT to focus on the main range, as there are so many outdated models that need updating to remain relevant that TT is just a distraction from that task.

 

[deltic]

One wonders if the present ownership of Hornby is a factor in it loosing its way. Now owned by a company that also owns Stanley Gibbons which has gone off the rails and a funeral directors which accounts for most of its turnover. Ie there is nothing in common with any of them.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

One wonders if the present ownership of Hornby is a factor in it loosing its way. Now owned by a company that also owns Stanley Gibbons which has gone off the rails and a funeral directors which accounts for most of its turnover. Ie there is nothing in common with any of them.

Would this be Frasers by any chance? (Mike Ashley group)

 

[deltic]

Would this be Frasers by any chance? (Mike Ashley group)

No it's Castlenau

 

[4COR]

One wonders if the present ownership of Hornby is a factor in it loosing its way. Now owned by a company that also owns Stanley Gibbons which has gone off the rails and a funeral directors which accounts for most of its turnover. Ie there is nothing in common with any of them.

The bottom fell out of stamp collection decades ago so Stanley Gibbons is not so much of a surprise (my parents had massive collections of definitives and worked out it was better to use them on letters rather than to keep them as they were worth face value only).

 

[SCH117X]

Proper R & D, getting colours right, using metal parts on horribly exposed easilly broken parts and making spares parts available would be a a good start.
Pointed to them both GW No.1 and D2959 Ruston 88DS's that they listed this year were in reality phony preservation liveries - the GWR never having such a loco and BR equally never had D2959. Further the 88DS that ran at Didcot in the 1970 as GW No.1 had an enclosed cab not the open sided cab they were showing. Understand they have now dropped both from being produced.

16421D RH 224353 Didcot 17 Apr 71

Explore Dave58282's 42631 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[4COR]

In today's news, it's reported that Hornby's sales and gross profit have increased by 10% in the period Apr-Aug 2024 compared to the same period in 2023 (but were behind internal forecasts due to shipping delays).

Mike Ashley works his magic at Hornby as sales jump

Sales and profit at models and collectibles group Hornby have jumped after billionaire Mike Ashley took up a consultancy role.

www.cityam.com

 

[Iskra]

In today's news, it's reported that Hornby's sales and gross profit have increased by 10% in the period Apr-Aug 2024 compared to the same period in 2023 (but we're behind internal forecasts due to shipping delays).

Mike Ashley works his magic at Hornby as sales jump

Sales and profit at models and collectibles group Hornby have jumped after billionaire Mike Ashley took up a consultancy role.

www.cityam.com

Interesting news, so it's not all doom and gloom then!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think Hornby really needs to do more multiple units from the pre-privatisation to early privatisation era. I’m around 30, so if I were going to model my own nostalgia, it’ll be regional railways super sprinters or class 455s. They could tone down the detail too. I’d rather an affordable plasticy EMU than a highly detailed EMU that’s so expensive it’s a choice between an annual holiday or a simple model train.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think Hornby really needs to do more multiple units from the pre-privatisation to early privatisation era. I’m around 30, so if I were going to model my own nostalgia, it’ll be regional railways super sprinters or class 455s. They could tone down the detail too. I’d rather an affordable plasticy EMU than a highly detailed EMU that’s so expensive it’s a choice between an annual holiday or a simple model train.

I agree with this- Hornby have in their (or Lima's) archive toolings for class 101, 110, 117 and 156 which could relatively cheaply be upgraded to have a few basic features like working headlights. Doing EMUs wouldn't be quite as easy, but I'd like to see them try something along those lines. By keeping the features to a minimum (working headlights and taillights only) they could embrace being the "affordable" end of the market, rather than trying and failing to compete with the likes of Bachmann and Accurascale.

 

[Harpo]

I agree with this- Hornby have in their (or Lima's) archive toolings for class 101, 110,

A simpler but good looking 101 might give good price competition to Bachmann’s increasingly expensive version.

Similarly, if the 110 could be re-engineered as a simple low cost 104, it could compete with Heljan’s offering.

 

[Ducatist4]

I wonder if much of Hornbys recent success is down to Airfix? They appear to be going from strength to strength these days with some excellent kit releases that stand up there with the best of the far eastern manufacturers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This clip appeared on the BBC Archive YouTube channel earlier.

Quite a blast from the past, but it shows that Hornby's trials and tribulations are nothing new.

 

[geoffk]

Going back many years, it was perhaps a pity that UK manufacturers persisted with the hybrid 00 gauge once electric motors small enough to fit inside an H0 scale British outline loco became available.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Going back many years, it was perhaps a pity that UK manufacturers persisted with the hybrid 00 gauge once electric motors small enough to fit inside an H0 scale British outline loco became available.

Oh, I agree in principle... but I feel that ship has now sailed. So much of the industry is geared towards the imperfect OO gauge, that switching is a non-starter, getting all the assorted manufacturers to agree to switch, even more so. Modellers do "switch gauges" on occasion which involves selling everything and starting again, but enforcing that change would go down like a lead balloon.
Presumably Hornby still owns the rights to the handful of British outline models that Lima produced in HO scale... I could see them having some sort of madcap idea to sell HO scale British outline models in the US and Canada, if they weren't already doing the TT thing!

 

[sprinterguy]

Going back many years, it was perhaps a pity that UK manufacturers persisted with the hybrid 00 gauge once electric motors small enough to fit inside an H0 scale British outline loco became available.

Indeed, it feels like there have been opportunities missed, firstly when Triang bought out Hornby Dublo in 1964, and secondly in the late seventies, when Mainline and Lima entered the UK scene and Hornby began to strive for greater levels of detail. Though of course Lima did initially attempt to enter the UK market in HO scale and quickly recognised that the only way to make headway in that market was in OO scale.

Shame, really, as true-to-gauge HO, as well as having the correct ratio between track and vehicle width, would realise some valuable extra space when it comes to overall train lengths, compared to OO. Though if the change were to happen today I would never be able to afford to re-equip my layout with the desired brand new HO locomotives and stock, relying heavily as I do on the second hand market.

 

[BobA]

Modellers do "switch gauges" on occasion which involves selling everything and starting again, but enforcing that change would go down like a lead balloon.

I agree that we are stuck with OO Gauge and its compromises - too many people and manufacturers have invested too much to change now.

But switching to one of the finescale gauges (EM or P4) does not mean selling everything - baseboards, electrical equipment (including decoders) and all scenic items can be re-used. So can most rolling stock and motive power: the only things that need changing are wheels and track, but then the whole point of changing gauge is to improve the appearance of those items.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I agree that we are stuck with OO Gauge and its compromises - too many people and manufacturers have invested too much to change now.

But switching to one of the finescale gauges (EM or P4) does not mean selling everything - baseboards, electrical equipment (including decoders) and all scenic items can be re-used. So can most rolling stock and motive power: the only things that need changing are wheels and track, but then the whole point of changing gauge is to improve the appearance of those items.

For such a change to happen at the retail and manufacturer level would be difficult though. You'd need all the manufacturers to agree on a transition schedule, and a period of all new examples of locomotives and rolling stock either being supplied with sets of wheels in both gauges, or to be offered in both gauges during the transition period. With people already struggling with the rising costs, this wouldn't be an easy switch.

Switching the tracks and wheelsets to match the scale of the vehicles and buildings would be easier than changing the tooling of everything to match the HO track used almost everywhere else in the world. Though then you're in a situation where all track for the GB scene is it's own thing, with no compatibility with track from US or European markets. Whilst switching by whichever means would be a good thing in the longer term, I'm not convinced it's worthwhile considering how difficult the transition would be. If the slight issues with scale bother the individual enough, converting things over to P4 or EM is an option... and if you're already at the point of considering such a move, it's unlikely to be beyond your skill level.

 

[Sunil_P]

OO models muddle up 1:76 body shells with 1:87 track gauge, and are therefore NOT scale models. They are merely TOYS!

 

[DJ_K666]

This clip appeared on the BBC Archive YouTube channel earlier.

Quite a blast from the past, but it shows that Hornby's trials and tribulations are nothing new.

Very young Simon Kohler there...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I agree that we are stuck with OO Gauge and its compromises - too many people and manufacturers have invested too much to change now.

But switching to one of the finescale gauges (EM or P4) does not mean selling everything - baseboards, electrical equipment (including decoders) and all scenic items can be re-used. So can most rolling stock and motive power: the only things that need changing are wheels and track, but then the whole point of changing gauge is to improve the appearance of those items.

Apologies for re-quoting the same post, but on your second point about switching- when I mentioned "selling everything" I was referring to when modellers transition from OO to N or vice-versa, not adopting EM or P4:within the broader 4mm scene. It's not unknown for modellers to do this, several of our regulars on this part of the site have done so. However enforcing such a transition on the entire community is a non-starter.

OO models muddle up 1:76 body shells with 1:87 track gauge, and are therefore NOT scale models. They are merely TOYS!

I shall refer the right honourable gentleman to the previous posts on this thread.

It all depends what's important to you. You say OO is "merely toys"... but when you really think about it, they're all "toys". They serve no purpose other than to entertain us, to allow us a creative outlet and source of enjoyment. I wasn't aware that was a bad thing.

If the scale being slightly off (as it is in both OO and UK N) is something you can't get past, there are workarounds. I feel for the Irish modellers though- the track discrepancy is far worse for them!