How can you tell how old a child is?

[sheff1]

Is it really a train company's failing if they can't do the impossible and age someone on sight?

As you say, it is impossible to age someone on sight. However, in the instances reported on this thread (and elsewhere) TOC employees are making categorical assertions regarding someone's age. In some cases the TOC employee has falsely stated in writing that someone is not a child. Such behaviour shows, at best, a lack of training which itself is a failure of the TOC. If, even after appropriate (re)training, a employee continues to falsely accuse people of criminal behaviour based on a guess of age then the failure of the TOC to deal with the matter is an even bigger issue.

 

[RJ]

Other countries avoid this problem by charging adult fare from the age of 12.

Doesn't matter what the age is - there'll always be a contingent always try it on. You'd be surprised how many parents come to my window saying their child is 4, only for the child to eagerly pipe up that they're 5 or 6!

 

[Deerfold]

You realise I wasn't seriously suggesting the scheme that bus companies use? Their scheme is purely designed to boost their profit margins by abolishing the general right to lower fares for minors.

If proof of age becomes mandatory, all commonly recognised forms should be accepted, rather than the bus company scheme of selling a discount card by misrepresenting it as a "proof of age card".

What right is there for lower fares for minors on buses? In some areas local authorities do subsidise schemes, but for most operators it's a commercial decision to offer child fares.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Citizencard: https://www.citizencard.com/ - just as useful for proving you're under 16 as over 18.

 

[sefton]

Is it really a train company's failing if they can't do the impossible and age someone on sight?

It is the train companies choice to offer discounted fares for children knowing of the difficulties that exist. The train companies therefore need to work within those constraints.

By that logic everywhere that sells alcohol/tobacco/other age restricted goods is at fault because they require people to show formal ID and don't psychically know they're old enough.

I mentioned this before. If they used the same logic as shops that sell age related goods, shops don't want to sell age related goods incorrectly so apply a wide margin of safety, i.e. they challenge anyone who looks under 25 and won't sell without proof.

Train companies on the other hand do want to sell age related goods (child tickets), so it would be sensible to apply a similar wide margin of safety, i.e. you don't challenge anyone who looks under 21.

 

[Merseysider]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Citizencard: https://www.citizencard.com/ - just as useful for proving you're under 16 as over 18.

Great suggestion, and it’s very cheap and straightforward to get, but I hope awareness of the scheme has improved since I had one!

Excepting Wetherspoons, who accepted it without fail, it was rejected or questioned more often than it was accepted

 

[Llanigraham]

So you want the system to remain pretty much as it is, with the burden falling on the customer for the train companies failings and to have to pay to prove their innocence.

Nice.

Funny,but if you want an Old Persons Rail Card, or a Disabled Persons Rail Card, or even an age related bus pass, it is the customer that has to provide the evidence that they are applicable, and sometimes pay for them, so why shouldn't the same rules apply to a "young person"?

 

[Andrew1395]

If you doubt the entitlement to travel with a child ticket, you ask the customer who is presenting the ticket, their date of birth. If you are clever you ask them what year they had their 13th birthday. If the answers confirm they are entitled to travel with a child priced ticket, you thank them for their time and let them carry on their way. It is poor customer service to declare a customer a liar. Frankly we are only talking edge cases here with as many 18 year olds unchallenged as 14 years challenged with a child ticket. The bigger problem is ticketless travel by adults.