How can Moscow afford so many electric buses?

[Tester]

Did somebody tell you Russia is a third-world country or something ?
It’s not Western Europe…

Fun trivia:

'Third world country' is in common use now, but I suspect that not many people know what a 'second world country' was.

It's what was the Soviet Union and associated countries.

 

[coppercapped]

If we are talking about central planning, regulation or any other such term, I suggest that people should read Friedrich von Hayek's book The Road to Serfdom, first published in 1944.

The core of his argument is that central planning and government control of the economy leads to inefficiency, loss of individual freedom, and ultimately, totalitarianism. He wrote based on the experience of developments in the Soviet Union, Italy and Nazi Germany, but his theory has been confirmed after his death by developments in, for example, Russia (again), the People's Republic of China, and North Korea. Other examples are available.

To those that say that such developments could not happen here I would say that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Be very, very careful what you wish for.

von Hayek was born in Vienna in 1899, taught at the London School of Economics for some twenty years and became a British citizen in 1937 He died in 1992 having been awarded the 1974 Nobel Prize in Economics which he shared with Gunnar Myrdal.

 

[godfreycomplex]

If we are talking about central planning, regulation or any other such term, I suggest that people should read Friedrich von Hayek's book The Road to Serfdom, first published in 1944.

The core of his argument is that central planning and government control of the economy leads to inefficiency, loss of individual freedom, and ultimately, totalitarianism. He wrote based on the experience of developments in the Soviet Union, Italy and Nazi Germany, but his theory has been confirmed after his death by developments in, for example, Russia (again), the People's Republic of China, and North Korea. Other examples are available.

To those that say that such developments could not happen here I would say that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Be very, very careful what you wish for.

von Hayek was born in Vienna in 1899, taught at the London School of Economics for some twenty years and became a British citizen in 1937 He died in 1992 having been awarded the 1974 Nobel Prize in Economics which he shared with Gunnar Myrdal.

And how’s Hayek’s beloved market treating people? And why if it’s so perfect does it need the evil totalitarian instruments of society to get it out the mire every 8 years or so?

 

[coppercapped]

And how’s Hayek’s beloved market treating people? And why if it’s so perfect does it need the evil totalitarian instruments of society to get it out the mire every 8 years or so?

Nice attempt to move the goalposts...

...but you can be sure that Moscow's getting electric buses was not a result of social market economics.

 

[dutchflyer]

Fun trivia:

'Third world country' is in common use now, but I suspect that not many people know what a 'second world country' was.

It's what was the Soviet Union and associated countries.

Kind of think it was then named 3d after 2nd was used for those areas´behind the iron curtain´
Soviet-Rossye the most, but also in nearly all those 2nd w countries the electric trolleybus-with thus fixed routing, was chosen, as I remember from relevant mags/publications at that time, due to their idea of economics: mostly their very restricted access to fluid fuels=OIL, diesel etc. And their ever all compassing way to avoid having to pay in ´real money (like US$ or even GBP+at that time worth nearly 6 of those greenies and divided up in 20/12 sh/p.)-> thus as few as can live with private cars and forcing the people ion their preplanned blocks of crumbling concrete into overfull of such buses-with the passenger being responsible for having some form of valid ticket-for most simply their work-ID, for others having bought flimsy paper tickets from a kiosk.
But since around 2010/´15 there is a very clear trend of replacing fixed wire trolleybuses with much more moveable electric buses, since these came on the market in bigger nrs. About only case where a city also built those wires and took those buses is Praha/CZ, where very recently the very busy line to the airport was electrified that way. Check the site trolleymotion for reports/more info on those networks.
Somehow it seems to me about all those preplanned (2nd w) economies sooner or later all turned into ´profit centres´ for a select group who could take control. Similar to how officials buy in their jobplace in some countries where they then can grab (real, worth it, maybe foreign valuta) then the profits from the poor civilians whoi are usually also very much used to ´ when deal with officialdom have to pay!´ As I just read this afternoon in an entertaining book from someone who lived/reported from Algeria in those years when they tried to imitate Yugoslavija.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Nice attempt to move the goalposts...

...but you can be sure that Moscow's getting electric buses was not a result of social market economics.

Perhaps on both counts, but a communist planned economy did (in large part) give it an all-electric highly efficient and inexpensive metro and suburban rail system, so it could have been worse…

 

[coppercapped]

Perhaps on both counts, but a communist planned economy did (in large part) give it an all-electric highly efficient and inexpensive metro and suburban rail system, so it could have been worse…

Firstly to correct your statement. The Soviet Union may have pretended to be a ‘communist’ state but it was in fact run by murderous autocrats who brooked no opposition.

Quite apart from the atrocities committed by the autocrats in the Moscow Kremlin before and during the Second World War, have you forgotten or ignored:

• the forced absorption of the old European states and nations into the ‘USSR’ after the end of the Second World War
• the Gulags
• the crushing of the East German protests in 1953
• the tanks of the Warsaw Pact countries in Budapest in 1956 (I worked with a young Hungarian in the late 1960s who as an eleven year old was dropping Molotov cocktails into Russian tanks - his experiences marked him for life)
• the Prague Spring in 1968
• the invasion of Afganistan in 1979?

These actions are, I would maintain, a lot worse than the total benefits gained from even the best trolley bus network.

I have no time for apologists for autocrats and murderers.

 

[godfreycomplex]

I have no time for apologists for autocrats and murderers.

That's a bit much really, let's calm it down eh

 

[Segedunum]

I think we've answered the question on how Moscow has so many electric buses and strayed off-topic quite significantly, so let's leave it here.