How can I get a rail ticket refund - if possible

[EdGasket]

My daughter had an advance single from Newcastle to Portsmouth and was at Newcastle station in good time waiting by the train marked Kings Cross for the doors to open; even asked somebody and was told it was the right train. Well as time ticked by beyond the scheduled departure she twigged something was not right. Turns out her pre-booked train had left from a different platform. She asked a member of station staff what to do and was told she'd have to buy another ticket which she did from the ticket office. This however has cost her £92 for a standard single bought with a YP railcard which she can ill afford. When she got on the next train, the guard said her original advance ticket would be OK!

So is it possible to get a refund of the additional ticket she bought for £92 (with YP railcard) or is it just tough luck, put it down to experience? She has all tickets unmarked plus the receipts for purchase. I am thinking though that she will probably not qualify for a refund as she travelled on a later train than the one she had an advance ticket for. What is annoying also is that she paid for another entire journey whereas she could of at least limited it to the Necastle-KingsCross leg which would have saved £20.

Anyone know if she could get a refund and how? East Coast website says to return to the station she bought the ticket from but as that is Newcastle and she lives in Portsmouth, it is not possible. The only other address given is for refunds on web tickets. She has tried one local station who told her to go to Newcastle for the refund ! Should we try a different local station or by post to East Coast assuming someone knows an address for refund claims?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Write to, phone or email East Coast Customer Services (before sending the tickets!) and explain the situation. Only they can say if she will get a refund in this case, but in my opinion she should do.

 

[sonic2009]

Have you tried calling East Coast customer relations?

 

[ainsworth74]

Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter but between us we'll do our best to help you out

Technically what she was told at the station was correct if you miss the booked train on an advance ticket then normally the ticket loses all value (not something I really agree with but them's the rules). Now guards are allowed to show discretion and can allow people to travel on expired advance tickets, which it sounds like this guard would have been willing to do. Most guards are fairly lenient and it's always worth asking, before boarding if they're willing to let you travel, so if this happens in future it's something worth bearing in mind.

On to the case at hand, in my opinion you daughter is not entitled to a refund as what's happened is exactly what the rules state should happen in this situation. However, I think it might be worth writing to East Coast customer services, explaining the situation and asking if they'd be willing to refund her could produce a positive outcome but it is certainly not guaranteed. Either way if you don't ask you don't get!

 

[michael769]

Unfortunately Advance Tickets are not normally refundable, nor are any additional tickets purchased if the passenger takes a different service tot hat booked.

The guards advice that the ticket was OK on the other train was incorrect as Advance Tickets are only valid on the booked service (unless you are delayed on an earlier part of your journey or the booked train has been cancelled).

I suspect what he meant is that he personally would have accepted that, but that does not mean a different guard would have done the same in the circumstances so the advice to purchase a single ticket was the correct advice. It would not be advisable to board a train without a valid ticket from a station with ticket selling facilities unless you obtain permission from the train crew before boarding.

I would suggest that she contacts East Coasts Customer Services and explains the circumstances in case they may wish to make a goodwill gesture.

One question was the person who told your daughter that was the right train a railway employee or a member of the public?

 

[maniacmartin]

Also, how exactly was the wrong train "marked Kings Cross"? Was this on the train itself, or on a departure board (which presumably would have shown a different time to the time on her mandatory reservation coupon) or indicated in some other way?

 

[tony_mac]

When she got on the next train, the guard said her original advance ticket would be OK!

I assume then, that he accepted the Advance ticket (as he has the discretion to do) and did not stamp the replacement?
In that case, I guess that the replacement is unused, and you can apply for a refund (minus £10 admin charge).

The rules do seem to say this is done at the original ticket office, which isn't much use. I guess the best thing is to write to East Coast and ask them for advice. (Or if she can easily get to Kings Cross, try there, but they may not help either).

(I don't know if this happens at Newcastle a lot, but I have missed a train there previously due to un-announced changes).

 

[ainsworth74]

Also, how exactly was the wrong train "marked Kings Cross"? Was this on the train itself

East Coast have paper destination displays in the windows of their trains, so it's perfectly possible that the train had been fitted with the display for its next service. These also don't have a time on them.

 

[bb21]

East Coast have paper destination displays in the windows of their trains, so it's perfectly possible that the train had been fitted with the display for its next service. These also don't have a time on them.

... or even old ones from a previous journey which has not been updated.

 

[exile]

Relying on what's displayed on a train's destination blind is asking for trouble - my regular train to Manchester can have more or less anywhere in the North West as its "destination"!

 

[Anvil1984]

What has possibly happened is that she has stood by the service which stands in Newcastle for quite a while (usually platform 3) whilst it gets cleaned etc and just saw London Kings Cross on the screens / the paper slips in the doors whilst the service from Scotland to London comes through to stop on platform 4, Im sure this happens a few times through the day.

The passenger has then asked the ambiguaous question of "Is this the London train" to which the staff will have said yes, probably should have asked more questions to see what the passenger was talking about but also a little onus on the passenger here to say which London train they are waiting for

 

[benk1342]

Can anyone explain why the rail industry in this country doesn't publicly use train numbers, as most other countries seem to? This would be a big help for people on Advance tickets, I think. Although the departure time I guess can generally stand in for a train number.

 

[island]

Probably custom and practice.

 

[Ferret]

Can anyone explain why the rail industry in this country doesn't publicly use train numbers, as most other countries seem to? This would be a big help for people on Advance tickets, I think. Although the departure time I guess can generally stand in for a train number.

Good question, certainly on long distance services!

 

[Greenback]

How many people might get on the 1053 to newcastle when they should have been on train number 1053 to Leeds?! It is so established in this country to refer to trains by departure time that I struggle to remember to use train numbers when abroad.

 

[applepie2100]

Can anyone explain why the rail industry in this country doesn't publicly use train numbers, as most other countries seem to? This would be a big help for people on Advance tickets, I think. Although the departure time I guess can generally stand in for a train number.

Did Virgin not try to introduce this some time ago with the idea that the train number would be shown on the ticket, departure screens at the station and the train itself?

Certainly both pendolini and voyagers both have a section on the exterior display with a number in the range of "VTxxxx" as well as destination and next calling point.

 

[bb21]

Yes, they still do, however there is no consistency in that they sometimes show the train's RSID but head code at other times.

 

[ainsworth74]

How many people might get on the 1053 to newcastle when they should have been on train number 1053 to Leeds?!

I think the only way to avoid it would be to either use numbers in the 3xxx range and upwards or to use numbers plus letters, perhaps with the TOC code being the letters, so VTxxxx or ECxxxx or XCxxxx.

 

[34D]

Headcodes on the front of the train, and on tickets.

We could put a class 86 on the front of all the electric trains, and a class 47 on all the diesel trains, and fit equipment to the front that could display things like 1E01 or 2J74.

Oh wait, its been tried before!

 

[bb21]

I think the only way to avoid it would be to either use numbers in the 3xxx range and upwards or to use numbers plus letters, perhaps with the TOC code being the letters, so VTxxxx or ECxxxx or XCxxxx.

You mean slightly modified RSID numbers?

 

[ainsworth74]

You mean slightly modified RSID numbers?

Well yes, now that you mention it!

 

[EdGasket]

What has possibly happened is that she has stood by the service which stands in Newcastle for quite a while (usually platform 3) whilst it gets cleaned etc and just saw London Kings Cross on the screens / the paper slips in the doors whilst the service from Scotland to London comes through to stop on platform 4, Im sure this happens a few times through the day.

The passenger has then asked the ambiguaous question of "Is this the London train" to which the staff will have said yes, probably should have asked more questions to see what the passenger was talking about but also a little onus on the passenger here to say which London train they are waiting for

Yes that seems to be exactly what happened/what she did. She says she was waiting by platform 3 next to a train that said Kings Cross. She said platform 4 was obscured by an archway or something and anyway it was not clear where 3 stopped and 4 began.
She has emailed EastCoast to ask where to return the tickets but has had no reply yet.

I've just found this address for East Coast Customer Relations:
East Coast Customer Relations

Freepost RSRJ-LJCX-GHST
Plymouth
PL4 6AB
Tel: 08457 225 333
Open Monday to Sunday 07.00- 22.00

We will give them a call tomorrow to see if we can send the tickets there. I hope they answer in a reasonable time as 0845 numbers are charged at National Rate with Virgin Media or should we just send all the tickets off anyway with a covering letter explaining the poor train identification/advice at Newcastle?

 

[Anvil1984]

I'm not sure what is meant by where platform 3 starts and platform 4 ends. Thats the easiest part of the tale as its two different platform faces. In contrast to 5 and 6 where its the sam platform 5 at the north end., 6 at the south. I do concur however with the archway having just left from platform 4 for a day out about half an hour ago I forgot to check what the signage is like.

As for the rest sorry if I'm being condescending (I don't mean to). But it could have been avoided by asking if it was the (insert train time here) service to London or even is this platform x. But on the other hand the staff could have asked which one however there is a similar debate about this on another thread.

A letter may be worth a try especially if you point out the signage issue I'll try and have a look at it when I return later but a little bit of an apology for an honey mistake should be included as its not 100% East Coasts fault

 

[EdGasket]

Thanks for your reply Anvil1984. Well she was new to Newcastle station and is not a seasoned train traveller. I know technically she is probably in the wrong but it was a mistake that was easy to make. It is also annoying that in her 'panic' to get the next train, she bought the entire jopurney again whereas she could have just bought the Newcastle to London leg as the advance London to Portsmouth leg had a seperate ticket with no time on it.

 

[Anvil1984]

Yeah I remember using platform 4 when I first started travelling and its not immediately obvious, its a similar problem to using platform 9 at York. Another thing is that may not have been East Coast platform staff she spoke to. It may have been XC, TPE or Northern on train staff who were passing through the station who have made the same mistake. Also as a personal grumble rail staff do get asked questions which seem silly to us but the answer is both right and wrong. I.e Is that the London train? If we reply yes it is right but if we said yes there's an earlier one off the next platform it'll end up that the passenger wanted Durham and the earlier one didn't stop there. Its like working a Manchester service at Leeds where there are trains to Manchester at 07 and 13 to Victoria and 08 to. Piccadilly and the amount of times you get asked if its the Manchester train and they are going elsewhere or to the other Manchester station is unbelievable.

If I was writing a letter I'd just state what you've stated so far , I'll try and see what the platform 4 signage is like from the footbridge. Another reason that its easy to make that mistake is because the service on platform isn't locked up so that may be worth including

 

[IanD]

Q:"Is that THE London train?"

A:"No, that's A London train."

 

[Ferret]

Anvil - odd you should mention it not being locked up - if it's sat on the platform for too long, the Transec paranoia brigade want the train locked for security!

 

[EdGasket]

If I was writing a letter I'd just state what you've stated so far , I'll try and see what the platform 4 signage is like from the footbridge. Another reason that its easy to make that mistake is because the service on platform isn't locked up so that may be worth including

She says she saw a sign pointing to platforms 3 and 4. She followed the sign, found the Kings Cross train, asked someone who confirmed it was 'the' train and waited by her allotted coach (the one where she had a pre-booked seat) for the doors to open. She also asked why the doors were shut and was told it was because they were still sorting out reservations and doors would be opened after that. She could see a platform 3 sign at this point but nothing for platform 4. She assumed as it was a really long train that platform 3 turned into platform 4 further down (as it does at some stations). Later on she realised that platform 4 was through an archway but she could not see this from where she was waiting for the train doors to open.

We'll try calling the Customer Services number and see if they can handle refunds there or tell us where to send the tickets back to.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

She says she saw a sign pointing to platforms 3 and 4. She followed the sign, found the Kings Cross train, asked someone who confirmed it was 'the' train and waited by her allotted coach (the one where she had a pre-booked seat) for the doors to open.

Yes, there is just the one ramp and the one stairs from the station's overbridge to the island which has Platform 3 on one face and 4 on the other. They are marked as Platform 3 & 4.
I can see how she made the mistake.
Ideally, she would have recalled that she had descended to both Platform 3 and Platform 4 and would still have to identify one from the other.

There are, as others have said, several times each day in which East Coast and CrossCountry trains remain in platform 2, 3 or 4 at Newcastle for a sustained period, awaiting their next service. During that time, other trains will generally arrive and depart.
It seems to me to have been a silly mistake - I doubt that the Operator or platform staff made any error, but its always worth asking for assistance from the Company, even if the answer might not be in the form of a re-payment.

Also, how exactly was the wrong train "marked Kings Cross"?

In the same way as all East Coast Trains have their destination and calling points displayed, at every door, in the destination panel. Its entirely likely that the train the OP daughter was waiting for was indeed marked as "London - Kings Cross"; I'd be surprised if it wasn't, as there are not many other destinations that East Coast trains could be heading for if starting after a turnaround at Newcastle.

 

[EdGasket]

I called East Coast. They say the refund has to be from the station where the ticket was purchased however they have given me the following address:

East Coast Travel Centre,
Central Station,
Neville Street,
Newcastle
NE1 5DL

They say if I apply for a refund at any other station then they should forward the details to the station where the ticket was purchased. However I think it would be best to post everything directly myself. I didn't try to explain everything on the phone as the line was not good and I could hardly hear the operator. Will let you know what the outcome is.