How bad are train driver rotas?

[BlackpoolL30P1]

I have been through various previous threads and fatigue seems not only a killer in the cab but also for life outside work. Specifically wanted to ask:
Enough time off to actually spend your money and see the family?
I work shifts already, including nights but usually have time to recover for a meaningful life outside of work

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2023 ==

Sorry realise diffent TOCs different schedules. Any advice regarding northern Blackpool/Blackburn.

 

[BTU]

They can be pretty tiring but you can always swap for whatever shift pattern suits you best.

 

[CE142]

Northern Drivers Blackpool and Blackburn and also any other ex FNW Depot on the West are on a 4 day week with fixed Rest Day pattern, Mon/Tue one week, followed by Wed/Thurs, followed by Fri/Sat, then back to Mon/Tue and so on, thus meaning you get a 5 day long weekend off every 3 weeks, shifts will be lates and earlies, Don't think either has any night turns anymore, but both do have very early start and late finish times. They have the rubbish 'commited Sunday' rule, where if there's nobody to cover your Sunday then you have to work it even if you have made yourself not available to work.

 

[12LDA28C]

I have been through various previous threads and fatigue seems not only a killer in the cab but also for life outside work. Specifically wanted to ask:
Enough time off to actually spend your money and see the family?
I work shifts already, including nights but usually have time to recover for a meaningful life outside of work

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2023 ==

Sorry realise diffent TOCs different schedules. Any advice regarding northern Blackpool/Blackburn.

It's not the lack of time off that is the biggest cause of fatigue, more the variety of shifts that drivers are expected to work. One week you might be on late shifts starting at anything between 1300 and 1900, the next week you might be getting up at 0330 every day then the following week you might be on nights.

A few years of doing that takes its toll. And the proposed changes to rostering described as part of the RMT pay 'offer' would increase fatigue still further.

 

[Gorlash1886]

Yeah they can be brutal our earliest start ranges from 3:30-4am so looking at a 2am alarm clock

 

[BlackpoolL30P1]

Really appreciate the replies. Particularly so late at night/early morning.

 

[dctraindriver]

They can be pretty tiring but you can always swap for whatever shift pattern suits you best.

Can’t swap always in my experience but guess it’s depot specific.

 

[Taunton]

Northern Drivers Blackpool and Blackburn and also any other ex FNW Depot on the West are on a 4 day week with fixed Rest Day pattern, Mon/Tue one week, followed by Wed/Thurs, followed by Fri/Sat, then back to Mon/Tue and so on, thus meaning you get a 5 day long weekend off every 3 weeks, shifts will be lates and earlies, Don't think either has any night turns anymore, but both do have very early start and late finish times. They have the rubbish 'commited Sunday' rule, where if there's nobody to cover your Sunday then you have to work it even if you have made yourself not available to work.

Could you please explain this a bit more for us, because if a 4-day week and you start with Mon/Tue as rest days, presumably Wed/Thu/Fri/Sat are then worked. So how can Wed/Thu be the rest days the following week with a 4-day worked week?

 

[SJN]

Could you please explain this a bit more for us, because if a 4-day week and you start with Mon/Tue as rest days, presumably Wed/Thu/Fri/Sat are then worked. So how can Wed/Thu be the rest days the following week with a 4-day worked week?

As the next week you work Mon/Tue/Fri/Sat

 

[Class2ldn]

Its 4 days in a 7 day week so Sunday to Sunday so you can work 7 in a row but in any 7 days between the 2 Sundays you'll only work 4 unless you work the Sunday so it will be 5.
This is a common misconception on the railway, a 4 day week doesn't necessarily mean you'll only work 4 days then have days off its just 4 days between the 2 sundays

 

[Efini92]

I have been through various previous threads and fatigue seems not only a killer in the cab but also for life outside work. Specifically wanted to ask:
Enough time off to actually spend your money and see the family?
I work shifts already, including nights but usually have time to recover for a meaningful life outside of work

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2023 ==

Sorry realise diffent TOCs different schedules. Any advice regarding northern Blackpool/Blackburn.

I think this is the most recent link from Blackburn.

 

[Economist]

The tricky part of the roster is going from lates to earlies because the human body clock runs on a 25-26 hour cycle. Some TOCs switch from earlies to lates (and vice versa) every week, the roster at my current depot is two weeks early then two weeks lates, about half of the early turns book on after 07:00 and about half of the late turns book off before midnight.

Another thing to think about is Sundays, at my current TOC they are outside the week with a commitment to work some of them, however they are (I've been told) very easy to sell to other drivers who want the money.

Most TOCs operate on a 4:3 roster,or a 4:2 roster with Sundays outside, I've found it to be much easier than 5 days of standard office hours. I wouldn't want to go back to a 5-day week.

 

[ComUtoR]

View attachment 127518
I think this is the most recent link from Blackburn.

That's a pretty sweet roster !

A lot of spare turns but still looks pretty decent.

 

[Sly Sloth]

The answers here would vary massively by TOC and by depot or even by link sometimes! But in my case I work 4 days a week as there’s plenty that’ll take my Sunday! Meaning I work 208 days a year! If I work a bank holiday I’ll always take the day back! With 24 days holiday (excluding anything back for the BH worked) it means I work 184 days out of 365! Just over half the year

 

[KT530]

Have others have said, it’s the change in shift times that takes years off your life

Best thing you can do is a permanent mutual swap for either earlies or lates to suit for preference

Usually plenty of volunteers that want to do either

 

[BlackpoolL30P1]

Again thank you boys for your replies.
The example of blackburns rota is particularly useful.
A helpful bunch on this forum.

 

[Horizon22]

From what I've heard the "rotation" from a run of lates finishing on Saturday (in reality Sunday morning) with a Sunday RD followed by earlies starting on Monday can be brutal where it exists on some rosters.

Outside of crew, other railway roles that involve shifts are normally early/late/night with - as an example - shift times of 0700-1400, 1400-2100, 2100-0700, which are generally more set and "sociable". Often 12h weekends as well, so you get more weekends off.

 

[Midlands5678]

They aren’t pretty in the slightest. After a few days you’ll be exhausted.

 

[CE142]

A decent LDC will make sure that the latest finish on a late turn Saturday get the latest early turn start on Monday morning and that the earliest starts on Monday morning get the earliest finishes on Saturday niight.

 

[AG1994]

Since leaving school I’ve worked shifts of all kinds; 12 hours on 12 hours off, 6 hours on 6 hours off, 4 hours on 8 hours off, 4 days on 4 days off 4 nights on 4 days off, 6 days on 6 days off, 14 days on 14 days off, permanent nights and Monday-Friday 7 hour days early finish Fridays...

After experiencing all of that, and being fairly ok with it, I find the train driver roster quite tiring. The shifts are fairly short compared to most shift work but it’s the lack of equal time off to time on that gets me into some kind of fatigue deficit. I seem to average 4 on 3 off or 5/6/7 on 4 off, and will almost always swap from earlies to lates to nights after each time off.

The rosters are tough as they’re all over the place, your body can’t get used to it so easily like normal shift work. I’m just lucky I seem to be able to sleep ok when I’m on my days on, and feel relatively good on shift no matter what time I’m working - it’s the moment I finish my days on that I suffer. I have rest days where I can sleep for 14 hours solid, and rest days where I can only sleep 3 broken hours.

 

[12LDA28C]

View attachment 127518
I think this is the most recent link from Blackburn.

Only 9 or 10 rostered Sundays a year, depending on roster position. Surprising!

Although only every third Saturday off - not so good.

 

[Class2ldn]

Only 9 or 10 rostered Sundays a year, depending on roster position. Surprising!

Although only every third Saturday off - not so good.

Pretty normal on the railway

 

[Iamanoob]

What heppens if a train breaks down or delayed and you get in after your finishing time, do you get paid extra for it or is it "well you weren't exactly working"

 

[Class2ldn]

Of course you get paid, any time at work is paid even if you're sitting with your feet up

 

[12LDA28C]

What heppens if a train breaks down or delayed and you get in after your finishing time, do you get paid extra for it or is it "well you weren't exactly working"

Drivers aren't working when their train is delayed?! Huh?

 

[Efini92]

That's a pretty sweet roster !

A lot of spare turns but still looks pretty decent.

The work content is awful though. When it opened they basically inherited all the work the other depots didn’t want.
It’s a decent enough depot to start your career or wind down to retirement. It’s not somewhere to spend 30/40 years though.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Drivers aren't working when their train is delayed?! Huh?

Ironically if a train is heavily delayed, generally that means the Driver’s workload is higher

 

[12LDA28C]

Ironically if a train is heavily delayed, generally that means the Driver’s workload is higher

Indeed. Running on restrictive signals, keeping passengers informed, more communication with signaller/control and so on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2023 ==

Pretty normal on the railway

Certainly drivers at some TOCs are rostered more Sundays and less Saturdays than that.

 

[43066]

Pretty normal on the railway

Yep, the downside of the five day weekend set up some TOCs have is long runs of days on, and two out of every three Saturdays at work.

 

[12LDA28C]

Yep, the downside of the five day weekend set up some TOCs have is long runs of days on, and two out of every three Saturdays at work.

Chiltern still have a 50% rest day agreement in place for Saturdays. No doubt that is one of the things the DfT will be keen to get rid of as part of changes to Ts & Cs.