How are you supposed to plan journeys?

[03_179]

So on Friday the wife sent me a link to an event at West Brompton.

On to Real Time Trains (RTT) I went and planned a trip there and then on to get 710s on the Goblin Line.

This morning I check:

No trains beyond Willesden Jn - only buses.

When do the times get amended and uploaded ?

 

[Bigfoot]

Realtime trains is not a journey planner.

There are plenty of other websites and apps that will take into account planned engineering works.

The data can be updated as late as the night before or on the day for short term planning.

The clue is in the name realtime, not future time.

 

[Chris Butler]

Isn't the answer: "Not with Real Time Trains" ?! The National Rail journey planner is usually OK, but checking the operators website is the ultimate tool.

 

[alistairlees]

Real-time trains is a list of train schedules. It does not string those together into a valid itinerary (a journey) involving more than one train / bus schedule (or other link, such as a walk between stations) and is therefore clearly not a journey planner.

I don’t know how much future data real time trains has. A journey planner has 12 weeks into the future, including recent changes (eg last night or even today).

 

[87015]

Many of the data sites show when schedules were created - the West Brompton amendments show as published 22/05/19, so will have been in journey planners since then by rights.

https://live.rail-record.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/334297/21/07/19

 

[underbank]

I don’t know how much future data real time trains has. A journey planner has 12 weeks into the future, including recent changes (eg last night or even today).

Journey planners aren't always up to date when you get close to travelling, i.e. night before or same day. Last year I booked tickets from Carnforth to Euston on a Sunday morning, first train of the day. I booked a couple of weeks in advance. Come Saturday afternoon, I just checked the journey planner and Northern website timetable just in case of any last minute changes - the train had completely disappeared and there was no way I could get to Preston for the Virgin departure by train, but when I checked RTT it was still shown as scheduled. I messaged Northern via Facebook and Twitter and got a message back after a few hours confirming there was no Carnforth to Preston train and there was no RRB either. Next morning, as we were having breakfast and getting ready to drive to Preston, I just checked RTT on the off chance and saw the non existent train had left Barrow on time and looked to be running as originally planned weeks before. I then checked journey planners and Northern website, but no, not shown. So, I took the risk and went to Carnforth. Nothing on the platform displays, but I had RTT on my phone and could see it was still on the way, so I waited, and yes, it came, still nothing on the platform displays, and we caught it as planned. I complained to Northern, but got no reply. So, sometimes, RTT is actually better when you are very close to departure - "official" train websites aren't guaranteed to be correct, nor are station platform displays!!

 

[Furryanimal]

A little while back-and I can't remember when this was but it was several years-journey planners were insisting there were no trains to Cwmbran after 4pm on this particular Sunday with no replacement buses.
This just did not sit right with me so on the Saturday I asked at Cwmbran if this was correct.The lady in the ticket office insisted my information was correct.
I asked again at Cardiff Central where I was again told the information I had was correct after the guy on duty had checked his computer.
Needless to say come Sunday afternoon trains were running as normal.I complained about the misinformation to ATW and was told this was all down to a computer glitch.
Didn't seen to have occurred to anyone to tell station staff the information on their computers was not correct and I have remained suspicious of journey planners at weekends ever since!
And a minor thing really but over the past month or so I have seen several instances of National Rail Enquiries having trains scheduled to depart Cwmbran two minutes earlier than they actually do.Weird.

 

[Bletchleyite]

RTT is a great tool, but you really need to understand how to use it. The only time it has any value as a journey planner is on the day of travel, and not even then 100% of the time, as a cancellation may not reflect on there until very near or after the time of departure, whereas it will be entered onto other systems sooner.

It almost needs an exam before you use it

 

[underbank]

RTT is a great tool, but you really need to understand how to use it. The only time it has any value as a journey planner is on the day of travel, and not even then 100% of the time, as a cancellation may not reflect on there until very near or after the time of departure, whereas it will be entered onto other systems sooner.

It almost needs an exam before you use it

Yet as per above, even live departure screens on station platforms aren't always accurate, apparently especially on weekends. I think you need a mix of both to be certain. RTT is certainly useful at Euston to find out which platform your train will be departing from to avoid the last minute scramble.

 

[221129]

Yet as per above, even live departure screens on station platforms aren't always accurate, apparently especially on weekends. I think you need a mix of both to be certain. RTT is certainly useful at Euston to find out which platform your train will be departing from to avoid the last minute scramble.

Not always...

 

[yorkie]

So on Friday the wife sent me a link to an event at West Brompton.

On to Real Time Trains (RTT) I went and planned a trip there and then on to get 710s on the Goblin Line.

This morning I check:

No trains beyond Willesden Jn - only buses.

You need to use a journey planning tool.

For journeys within London you are probably best using the TfL journey planner https://tfl.gov.uk/

For other journeys, there's NRE ( http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ ) if you want fares, or FastJP ( http://www.fastjp.com ) if you want advanced options such as choosing to restrict your search to particular TOCs.

When do the times get amended and uploaded ?

Unfortunately some TOCs can be slow at uploading the correct data; a journey planner can only show services that are in the data. The data is updated daily however TOCs are supposed to finalise their schedules 12 weeks in advance where possible. For some unforeseen events this is not possible, but in the past couple of years even routine engineering works have caused schedules to be finalised later than the standard 12 week window.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Real Time Trains helps you:

As a passenger:

On the day, ideally close to your train time:

• Know your platform before it's announced.
• Know your arrival times precisely
• Understand what type of train is operating your service
• Know if there is a guard or not
• Know if there is a buffet/catering trolley or not.

In advance:

• Consult a consolidated timetable merging multiple TOCs

As a rail enthusiast/industry professional:

On the day, approaching the time or within the following 7 days:

• Accurately know precise times trains are due to pass certain points.
• Accurately be aware of precise delays
• Accurately be aware of freight and ECS workings
• Accurately be aware of the difference between booked and publicised times
• Accurately know the service's booked top speed.
• Accurately be aware of exceptional services.

In advance:

• View a consolidated WTT, which is of especial benefit at large junctions where multiple WTTs converge. It is the only reliable and easy way to see a consolidated working timetable 'on the go'.

 

[221129]

Real Time Trains helps you:

As a passenger:

On the day, ideally close to your train time:

• Know your platform before it's announced. Apart from the times it doesn't. (When a passenger goes to the wrong platform because of a planned set swap or alteration and the reason is RTT I very rarely have any sympathy.

• Know your arrival times precisely they are estimated times, which very rarely correspond to reality during disruption.
• Understand what type of train is operating your service it tells you what the service is timed for. Not what it is booked or diagrammed for.
• Know if there is a guard or not It tells you if there is a guard booked for a service, not if there actually is one.
• Know if there is a buffet/catering trolley or not. Again, it tells you if there is one timetabled for any point on a service.

In advance:

• Consult a consolidated timetable merging multiple TOCs

As a rail enthusiast/industry professional:

On the day, approaching the time or within the following 7 days:

• Accurately know precise times trains are due to pass certain points. Apart from all the ones that are guesses.
• Accurately be aware of precise delays to an extent maybe.
• Accurately be aware of freight and ECS workings Not every train that runs is shown on RTT, and not every train shown on RTT runs.
• Accurately be aware of the difference between booked and publicised times They are the same thing.
• Accurately know the service's booked top speed. It tells you the timing speed, not the top permissible speed.
• Accurately be aware of exceptional services. These sorts of services dont often show.

In advance:

• View a consolidated WTT, which is of especial benefit at large junctions where multiple WTTs converge. It is the only reliable and easy way to see a consolidated working timetable 'on the go'.

Please see my bold for all the inaccuracies in the above post.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Real Time Trains helps you:

As a passenger:

On the day, ideally close to your train time:

• Know your platform before it's announced.
• Know your arrival times precisely
• Understand what type of train is operating your service
• Know if there is a guard or not
• Know if there is a buffet/catering trolley or not.

In advance:

• Consult a consolidated timetable merging multiple TOCs

As a rail enthusiast/industry professional:

On the day, approaching the time or within the following 7 days:

• Accurately know precise times trains are due to pass certain points.
• Accurately be aware of precise delays
• Accurately be aware of freight and ECS workings
• Accurately be aware of the difference between booked and publicised times
• Accurately know the service's booked top speed.
• Accurately be aware of exceptional services.

In advance:

• View a consolidated WTT, which is of especial benefit at large junctions where multiple WTTs converge. It is the only reliable and easy way to see a consolidated working timetable 'on the go'.

Please see my bold for all the inaccuracies in the above post.

That's how it's supposed to work. Certainly in far greater detail than otherwise.

 

[yorkie]

That's how it's supposed to work. .

Says who?

Sorry but I have to agree with @221129 that your post contains several inaccuracies.

If you read this post about timing loads by @D6700 you will understand that the 'top speeds' and 'what type of train is operating the service' are not necessarily the same as the timing load displayed on open data websites, such as Open Train Times, RealTimeTrains, etc.

Yes it purports to say which trains are booked to be 'driver only operated' but this doesn't mean much: an SWT inner-suburban Guard wont be able to sell you a ticket, while a DOO train may well have an OBM, OBS or TTI who can.

Also Chiltern services are DOO south of Banbury (except for loco hauled trains) but if you relied on RealTimeTrains you'd think they had a Guard throughout (as well as thinking they were operated by a Class 158!)

As for catering... last time I got an HST, open data sites said it had catering, an announcement even said refreshments will be served at your seat. Yet I knew it wouldn't as JourneyCheck said due to staff shortages there would be no trolley beyond Birmingham.

The relevant accurate data often does exist but is not always available in open data format.

 

[221129]

That's how it's supposed to work. Certainly in far greater detail than otherwise.

Its really not how it's supposed to work at all.