How are you going to deal with Climate Change?

[najaB]

Is it not the case that China has now relaxed its "one child per family" edict?

Even while it was in place it wasn't uncommon for families to have more than one child, even in cities. I have a good friend whose family had a second child 20 years ago.

 

[Bobdogs]

By ignoring it.

 

[The Ham]

By ignoring it.

And in return it's likely to mostly ignore you (although that's more to do the fact that for most in the West - so UK, USA, Europe - they live in a temperate climate and so it's likely to have a limited impact on them and they are rich enough that fluctuations in prices would be of limited impact and we can afford to engineer our way out of the impacts).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And in return it's likely to mostly ignore you (although that's more to do the fact that for most in the West - so UK, USA, Europe - they live in a temperate climate and so it's likely to have a limited impact on them and they are rich enough that fluctuations in prices would be of limited impact and we can afford to engineer our way out of the impacts).

It is worrying, nonetheless, that the recent very high unusual temperatures experienced in the Pacific coastal areas of Canada and the North-West USA states are definitely a warning of times to come. The melting of glaciers in Greenland are currently much more pronounced than in recorded time tranches in the past. The flooding in the last few days in Germany and neighbouring states is not just "an Act of God".

I am thankful that being 76, I should not be around to see the worse of what is to come.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I think it’s about time more action was taken by Governments, what we’ve seen in Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium this week are going to continue happening on an ever worsening scale.

Granted it will take a while (will it?), so there’s still time. But right now I really don’t have faith in anything being done.

 

[Dai Corner]

I think it’s about time more action was taken by Governments, what we’ve seen in Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium this week are going to continue happening on an ever worsening scale.

Granted it will take a while (will it?), so there’s still time. But right now I really don’t have faith in anything being done.

I wonder if the Germans will link the adverse weather with their decision to switch from nuclear to coal for their electricity generation?

 

[Techniquest]

A burning question that I wanted to raise is how people are going to be dealing with climate change, which is a very real risk as seen by the horrendous heatwave across America and Canada.

How are you going to adapt your lifestyle and way of life to suit the changing climate, it's inevitable that storms are going to get worse and that it'll get hotter etc.

How are you going to handle it?

I've finally finished reading all 7 pages of a thread which I have a lot of interest in, climate change is a huge thing to me.

I've been doing what I can for years now, it is mostly just little steps but it all helps. My most recent change is to not throw bread packets and similar in the general rubbish, and keep them ready to be taken to be recycled with carrier bags as per the recommendation on the packaging. Non-recyclable packaging annoys me something fierce, although not as much as people whose attitude to recycling goes along the lines of 'it doesn't matter if you recycle or not.

When I'm away from the house, if there isn't a recycling point available then I'll take it with me and put it in the green bin on my return. Last week I had to chuck a Lucozade bottle in a black bin, as my small backpack was too small to squeeze it in with everything else I had with me. If I'd had faith in the weather, I'd have had room as I wouldn't have taken my waterproofs, coat or bag cover. Still, if I hadn't taken them...I was mortified at putting that bottle in general waste! I had no faith in the hotel actually recycling the plastics (I won't explain why here), so I took them with me.

Generally speaking, I'm hugely into recycling as much as possible. Even takeaway coffee cups, I tend to take them with me and re-use them once, just for the takeaway coffee feeling while sat on the armchair. That probably makes no sense to most people, but it works for me. I could go on for ages about recycling, but I'll summarise by saying I've done it for years, recently increased my efforts and I'm even trying to only buy things that come in recyclable packaging now.

Reduce and reuse, already hard at work on that too. This week, for example, I've been on a mission to vastly reduce my screen time, and I've had two full days so far with no TV on whatsoever. It's not even plugged in! Granted, I've been using both my smartphone and my Fitbit quite a lot lately, but that is primarily from vastly increased outdoor exercise. It just has to be done when the weather is as good as this! So my overall power use is probably not much lower anyway, but I'm trying. Everything not in use gets switched off and unplugged, when possible.

I turned vegetarian in the autumn of 2020, and I've been trying to go full vegan since. I've finally achieved my goal there, I've now been fully vegan for the last 10 days, and that's how it is going to stay. I didn't think I'd enjoy it, but I actually do, which is helped by so many vegan options out there now. The amount of fats and sugars, not to mention salt, in a lot of vegan food is a concern though. Still, now I've achieved the goal of going fully vegan, I can start work on reducing my intake of food that's rich in fats and sugars. Basically, I'm aiming for as healthy as I can, while also allowing for some decadent foods.

I can't drive, for multiple reasons, so I can't change that. My rail journeys are already fairly limited, and when world exploring options open up again I'll be going by rail when possible, with a personal ban on domestic flights and those within a reasonable travel time by rail. Ultra-long-haul flights will still be needed on rare occasions, so I'm doing what I can there.

I've even gone to washing clothes on a 30C wash rather than 40. Primarily though, that is because my cycling clothing requires more careful washing, so the machine normally goes on a cooler wash. Bedding and towels, I still do on a 90C wash but without any detergents. A tiny bit of plant-based fabric conditioner, and I mean tiny, gets used on those washes but even then that's once a week at its most frequent.

In my opinion, I cannot do much else. I'm already committed to not creating more people, that is primarily due to wanting to end the line of genetics more than to slow population growth down though. My food waste is pretty much zero anyway, so I can't even change that really, as it's only not zero from things like bread that's well past its use by date and going off.

In terms of how I'll handle the changing world, I don't know. If enough of us do our bit to reduce emissions, we might well be OK and we could potentially have a nicer world to live in. We will see. I don't necessarily care too much about doing my bit to improve the world for my sake, although I do more these days given my life expectancy has increased because of quitting unhealthy habits. No, I'm making sure I do my bit for the next generation. Hopefully they'll have a more pleasant world to grow up into!

 

[Gathursty]

I'll wait for China, Russia and India to lead the world in improving the environment.

I'll continue to watch all sorts of vehicles treat roads as Santa Pod from one junction to the next instead of being easier on the accelerator and brake.

I'll continue to observe the growing noise of the right of the individual making poor contributions to that of the common good of society.

I'm not advocating a socialist utopia. There will always be selfish people unwilling to put litter in a bin/buy more than what they actually need. Equally I'm not fully signed up to stripping Earth of rare materials for huge batteries and solar panels etc...

I think at all levels of society, the environment is still seen as the thing that doesn't affect me... yet.

 

[The Ham]

I'll wait for China, Russia and India to lead the world in improving the environment.

I'll continue to watch all sorts of vehicles treat roads as Santa Pod from one junction to the next instead of being easier on the accelerator and brake.

I'll continue to observe the growing noise of the right of the individual making poor contributions to that of the common good of society.

I'm not advocating a socialist utopia. There will always be selfish people unwilling to put litter in a bin/buy more than what they actually need. Equally I'm not fully signed up to stripping Earth of rare materials for huge batteries and solar panels etc...

I think at all levels of society, the environment is still seen as the thing that doesn't affect me... yet.

The problem with waiting for [insert location] is that those in those locations look at other locations and say, why should we do something when [insert place with higher per capita emissions] isn't doing something.

By taking a lead it then means that others can't use this argument and have to do something about it.

Now whilst China (7 tonnes) has a higher per capita emissions level to the UK (5 tonnes) where India is less than 2 tonnes we've still got a long way to go to get even to close to that even if they increase their emissions by 50% (likewise we could say that we shouldn't do anything until the US, 15 tonnes/capita, reduce their emissions).

However, if the West are doing something then everyone else follows. For instance if there's no market for plastic straws in the West then it's likely that they'll not be elsewhere.

In the same way, if we stop using coal then the market for it will reduce, meaning is not as viable (as we'll be able to pay over the odds to ensure supply over others). If there's less being produced (to try and increase margins or as sources become unviable to extract the coal) then fewer will use coal to create electricity and therefore reduce overall emissions.

 

[WAB]

By ignoring it.

Great! I'm glad you don't have any offspring, because they would have to live with the consequences.

And in return it's likely to mostly ignore you (although that's more to do the fact that for most in the West - so UK, USA, Europe - they live in a temperate climate and so it's likely to have a limited impact on them and they are rich enough that fluctuations in prices would be of limited impact and we can afford to engineer our way out of the impacts).

We can afford it. It may be quite sh** but it's probably more feasible than expecting people to live with a lower life-quality. I'm not sure we'll feel so good about the high rates of death from famine/drought/extreme weather events in other countries.

I think it’s about time more action was taken by Governments, what we’ve seen in Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium this week are going to continue happening on an ever worsening scale.

Granted it will take a while (will it?), so there’s still time. But right now I really don’t have faith in anything being done.

Exactly. As seen with Covid, long term individual commitment to make lifestyle changes is unlikely, even if the danger is staring us in the eyes.

I'll wait for China, Russia and India to lead the world in improving the environment.

I'll continue to watch all sorts of vehicles treat roads as Santa Pod from one junction to the next instead of being easier on the accelerator and brake.

I'll continue to observe the growing noise of the right of the individual making poor contributions to that of the common good of society.

I'm not advocating a socialist utopia. There will always be selfish people unwilling to put litter in a bin/buy more than what they actually need. Equally I'm not fully signed up to stripping Earth of rare materials for huge batteries and solar panels etc...

I think at all levels of society, the environment is still seen as the thing that doesn't affect me... yet.

It doesn't impact us until it does, and the slowly worsening situation is a bit like "boiling frogs" - you don't notice it until it's too late.

And we mustn't forget that the production output of China and India end up with us and other developed countries.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Great! I'm glad you don't have any offspring, because they would have to live with the consequences.


We can afford it. It may be quite sh** but it's probably more feasible than expecting people to live with a lower life-quality. I'm not sure we'll feel so good about the high rates of death from famine/drought/extreme weather events in other countries.


Exactly. As seen with Covid, long term individual commitment to make lifestyle changes is unlikely, even if the danger is staring us in the eyes.


It doesn't impact us until it does, and the slowly worsening situation is a bit like "boiling frogs" - you don't notice it until it's too late.

And we mustn't forget that the production output of China and India end up with us and other developed countries.

To make matters worse, it is absolutely boiling here right now. Just a sign...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2021 ==

I wonder if this heatwave is associated with climate change, or is it just an abnormally hot summer.

I’ve overheard some people speaking about how they’ve never seen it this hot at all.

 

[Dai Corner]

To make matters worse, it is absolutely boiling here right now. Just a sign...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2021 ==

I wonder if this heatwave is associated with climate change, or is it just an abnormally hot summer.

I’ve overheard some people speaking about how they’ve never seen it this hot at all.

I'd guess they were under about 50, as we had a whole summer like this in 1976.

 

[birchesgreen]

Didn't we have a heat wave a couple of years ago that lasted so long it turned Britain from green to brown in satellite maps?

 

[najaB]

I'd guess they were under about 50, as we had a whole summer like this in 1976.

But, before anyone uses this to say that climate change isn't a thing: weather is not climate.

 

[brad465]

I think at all levels of society, the environment is still seen as the thing that doesn't affect me... yet.

We've recently seen record heat in the NW US and Canada, deadly floods in Germany, Belgium and to a lesser extent nearby areas, and now China is having its own problems with flooding. Many developed areas with high emissions and/or lack of interest in doing enough about the environment have just been given a huge reality check. If all this doesn't cause further action then we've no real hope.

 

[Dai Corner]

But, before anyone uses this to say that climate change isn't a thing: weather is not climate.

Or indeed claim that the current temperatures are evidence of climate change.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Or indeed claim that the current temperatures are evidence of climate change.

The current temperatures aren't, but the increasing frequency at which we get such temperatures is.
What used to be an event that happened every now and again is now happening fairly often.
And that applies to other extreme weather events too. It isn't the weather itself that is evidence of climate change, more the pattern of increasing frequency of that weather.

 

[najaB]

Or indeed claim that the current temperatures are evidence of climate change.

Depends on what is meant by "current temperatures". If it means "July 21st 2021" then yes, I agree completely. If it means "average July temperatures from 2011 to 2021" then that's a different story.

 

[Dai Corner]

Depends on what is meant by "current temperatures". If it means "July 21st 2021" then yes, I agree completely. If it means "average July temperatures from 2011 to 2021" then that's a different story.

How about 'average July temperatures from a million years ago to today, plotted on a scale starting at 0K? That would probably be near enough a horizontal straight line.

Not arguing from any particular point of view, just pointing out that using selected data can lead to,er, interesting conclusions.

 

[najaB]

Not arguing from any particular point of view, just pointing out that using selected data can lead to,er, interesting conclusions.

I agree. Which is why 10 years is a good baseline. Long enough to reduce the effect of outliers, but short enough to give a decent trendline.

 

[The Ham]

How about 'average July temperatures from a million years ago to today, plotted on a scale starting at 0K? That would probably be near enough a horizontal straight line.

Not arguing from any particular point of view, just pointing out that using selected data can lead to,er, interesting conclusions.

Depends on what figures you'd accept in the data, there could be a fairly short fairly flat line (little more than a dot) at the top right hand corner of the graph if you only accepted actually recorded figures.

 

[Dai Corner]

I agree. Which is why 10 years is a good baseline. Long enough to reduce the effect of outliers, but short enough to give a decent trendline.

Depends on what figures you'd accept in the data, there could be a fairly short fairly flat line (little more than a dot) at the top right hand corner of the graph if you only accepted actually recorded figures.

Exactly.

If you ignore, or don't have, the data any conclusions you draw are likely to be unreliable.

 

[WAB]

Or indeed claim that the current temperatures are evidence of climate change.

It's not just intensity, it's frequency too. 1 in 100 year events are starting to occur more frequently.

We can cope one prolonged heatwave every couple of decades, but if it is multiple times every year, then we start getting into drought territory, with the need to use standpipes and crop-failures ensuing.

 

[MattRat]

Is it not the case that China has now relaxed its "one child per family" edict?

If we are going to talk about China, let's talk about how they are the biggest contributor to carbon emissions, but don't have to do anything about it becuase apparently they aren't a first world country despite having the economy to be classed as such....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If we are going to talk about China, let's talk about how they are the biggest contributor to carbon emissions, but don't have to do anything about it becuase apparently they aren't a first world country despite having the economy to be classed as such....

I am amazed at how many different items we have at home that say "made in China". I think they now must be a first class world country as their technology has allowed them to enter "the space race".

 

[najaB]

If we are going to talk about China, let's talk about how they are the biggest contributor to carbon emissions, but don't have to do anything about it...

Citation?

 

[WAB]

If we are going to talk about China, let's talk about how they are the biggest contributor to carbon emissions, but don't have to do anything about it becuase apparently they aren't a first world country despite having the economy to be classed as such....

We've effectively exported our carbon emissions to them by exporting our manufacturing there, so we do hold some responsibility.

 

[brad465]

OMG the desperation here from Johnson with this remark:

Boris Johnson faces backlash over Thatcher coal mines comment

The PM said closing "so many" coal mines gave the UK an "early start" in climate fight.

www.bbc.co.uk

Margaret Thatcher gave the UK "a big early start" in the move away from coal-fired power by closing "so many coal mines", Boris Johnson has said.
"We're now down to less than 2%, I think it's I% of our energy comes from coal," the prime minister added.
He was speaking on a visit to an offshore wind farm in the Moray Firth.
The SNP said he had shown he was "completely out of touch with Scotland by making unbelievably crass jokes at the expense of our mining communities".
Labour said he should apologise for the "shameful" comments.
Mr Johnson was being quizzed about preparations for the COP26 climate summit in Glasgow, in November, during a two-day visit to Scotland.

She might have closed the mines, but I believe we ended up importing more coal for a while, and she certainly didn't replace the coal mines with renewable energy, both in terms of jobs and energy capacity.

 

[najaB]

She might have closed the mines, but I believe we ended up importing more coal for a while, and she certainly didn't replace the coal mines with renewable energy, both in terms of jobs and energy capacity.

For "a while" substitute 30 years, which actually increased net CO2 emissions rather than reduce them.

 

[GusB]

It seems rather gloomy on the climate change front today:

Climate crisis: Scientists spot warning signs of Gulf Stream collapse

A shutdown would have devastating global impacts and must not be allowed to happen, researchers say

www.theguardian.com

Climate scientists have detected warning signs of the collapse of the Gulf Stream, one of the planet’s main potential tipping points.
The research found “an almost complete loss of stability over the last century” of the currents that researchers call the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC). The currents are already at their slowest point in at least 1,600 years, but the new analysis shows they may be nearing a shutdown.
Such an event would have catastrophic consequences around the world, severely disrupting the rains that billions of people depend on for food in India, South America and West Africa; increasing storms and lowering temperatures in Europe; and pushing up the sea level in the eastern US. It would also further endanger the Amazon rainforest and Antarctic ice sheets.
The complexity of the AMOC system and uncertainty over levels of future global heating make it impossible to forecast the date of any collapse for now. It could be within a decade or two, or several centuries away. But the colossal impact it would have means it must never be allowed to happen, the scientists said.
“The signs of destabilisation being visible already is something that I wouldn’t have expected and that I find scary,” said Niklas Boers, from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany, who did the research. “It’s something you just can’t [allow to] happen.”
It is not known what level of CO2 would trigger an AMOC collapse, he said. “So the only thing to do is keep emissions as low as possible. The likelihood of this extremely high-impact event happening increases with every gram of CO2 that we put into the atmosphere”.
Scientists are increasingly concerned about tipping points – large, fast and irreversible changes to the climate. Boers and his colleagues reported in May that a significant part of the Greenland ice sheet is on the brink, threatening a big rise in global sea level. Others have shown recently that the Amazon rainforest is now emitting more CO2 than it absorbs, and that the 2020 Siberian heatwave led to worrying releases of methane.