Hove & Brighton Group

[EAD]

Hello all,

Hopefully a quick one to clear up. I regularly head to Brighton and need to again tomorrow. I need to visit a relative in Hove near the station and then a friend in Brighton itself (just off Lewes Rd). Therefore travelling direct from Clapham Junction to Hove and returning from Brighton would be best for me (with a bus or two in between using Plusbus).

My simple question is if I buy a RTN Ticket CLJ - HOV (I have an NGC discount), can I come back from BTN?

I have played about in the routing guide and while HOV and BTN are Routing Group Stations, they do not appear to be Group Stations or on the inter-available list for passengers so it would imply that while I can validly travel via BTN to HOV (interchange), I cannot do as I had hoped and start my return leg at BTN rather than HOV.

All the more frustrating if that is the case as a CDR with NGC discount is £16.75 for HOV and BTN (no doubt owing to the Routing Group).

Many thanks in advance!

 

[John @ home]

if I buy a RTN Ticket CLJ - HOV (I have an NGC discount), can I come back from BTN?

Yes. Hove - Clapham Jn via Brighton is a Permitted Route.

 

[EAD]

Yes. Hove - Clapham Jn via Brighton is a Permitted Route.

Thanks, but to be clear I want to start the return leg from Brighton and don't want hassle at the barriers with a ticket marked HOV. I had understood permitted route means interchange only (subject to break of journey of course).

 

[AlterEgo]

You’re breaking your journey. That’s fine to do on that ticket.

 

[JB_B]

Going via Brighton you're well within 3 miles of the shortest route so it's fine.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks, but to be clear I want to start the return leg from Brighton and don't want hassle at the barriers with a ticket marked HOV. I had understood permitted route means interchange only (subject to break of journey of course).

Permitted routes are the routes you can take with a ticket. On most tickets you can start late and/or stop short at any point on any permitted route, as long as, for each given leg of the ticket (i.e. outbound and return), you remain on one permitted route. Of course, on season tickets, as they are valid for an unlimited number of journeys, switching permitted routes mid-journey is allowed.

In general, there are only 2 scenarios in which you are not allowed to start late and/or stop short:

Firstly, if your ticket has a restriction on break of journey - like all Advance tickets do, and as some Off-Peak tickets do (e.g. Lancaster to London).

Secondly, if (and this is arguable both ways) the permitted route you are following is only a permitted route by virtue of being a through train - such as going from Ebbsfleet to Gravesend via Ashford and Dover on the nearly 3-hour-long circuitous through train rather than the 3-minute direct through train! You couldn't just start at Dover and continue to Gravesend.

In either of the above scenarios you must, where break of journey restrictions apply, complete the whole ticketed journey, and, not get on or off where the journey you would be actually be making is not on a mapped or shortest (+ ≤3 miles) route.

So, in short, what you are proposing is perfectly legitimate, as there are no break of journey restrictions on your ticket (as with most tickets in the South-east) and you are following a permitted route throughout.

 

[EAD]

Many thanks everyone. Am quite well up on the rules compared to your average traveler, but did not think of the obvious break of journey or rather start return short in this case as I wast thinking surely they are grouped. Indeed, I regularly make use of the break of journey provisions in the South East (though entry/exit at the same station on the way).

 

[Hadders]

It’s valid but you might encounter rogue staff from GTR who might try to claim it isn’t...

 

[EAD]

That was at the back of my mind Hadders, but I am happy to assert my position politely if needed as it chimes with my day job.

 

[bb21]

It’s valid but you might encounter rogue staff from GTR who might try to claim it isn’t...

Unlikely, as in practice Brighton and Hove tickets are considered interchangeable except for very local flows. There was a staff notice I came across once but can't remember where now.

 

[EAD]

Just some quick feedback for anyone heading this way soon. Absolutely no issues given the availability of the ticket/boj rules. Also note the barriers at BTN accepted without fuss which made a welcome change to often badly or defensively coded barriers.

Lots of fun on the packed morning down journey mind as on-board PIS not working and poor OBS having to explain seemingly to every non-regular in person where they needed to be for the split at HHE.