Hot Weather TOC Uniforms

[dk1]

what is a tan? i have 2 colours: Milk and Red!

The latter sounds painful.

 

[Western Lord]

If I understand your comment correctly I disagree. If traincrew wear their own clothes and blend into the general public people won't know who to approach for queries and help, and more importantly, safety concerns. I can just imagine the uproar if we removed uniform requirements completely

That said, I'm not sure anyone would care what exactly the uniform is, as long as its distinguishable and presentable

French train drivers don't wear uniforms.

 

[Zomboid]

Drivers don't have to deal with the public. Though if the requirement were removed then I wonder how often 61016 would be bothered by people reporting someone in jeans and a t-shirt and indistinguishable from the general public getting into the drivers cab...

If it were removed then I imagine there would need to be some kind of union negotiation about the costs incurred by drivers who now have to supply their own clothing

 

[DarloRich]

French train drivers don't wear uniforms.

typical of your slap dash continentals

 

[LowLevel]

that is just someone being a smart arsenal to make a point - I usually side with that sort of approach but it is sometimes a bit trite.

The other issue with shorts is that companies also should be sending out sun cream. many of us find the sun to be an enemy!

When people who don't have to work in the conditions in question start being precious about their own personal standards vs practicality then pettiness on the part of the workforce should be expected.

Anyone who expects their workforce to for example get on with operating class 158s for up to 10 hours a day in the summer should have reasonable expectations about them being somewhat relaxed in terms of uniform standards.

I'll be honest - I've sat in the cab with my shirt unbuttoned effectively topless before working 15x units in an attempt to try not to pass out from heat exhaustion. No source of cold drinks, no effective cooling - they're bloody awful.

 

[DarloRich]

When people who don't have to work in the conditions in question start being precious about their own personal standards vs practicality then pettiness on the part of the workforce should be expected.

Anyone who expects their workforce to for example get on with operating class 158s for up to 10 hours a day in the summer should have reasonable expectations about somewhat relaxed in terms of uniform standards.

I agree with you 100% - see any of my comments on uniforms in the past! To reiterate uniforms need to be:

• Practical
• sensible
• easy care but hard wearing
• mitigate the effects of the season ( waterproof in winter/light in summer)
• Decent quality fabrics
• Easy to replace
• come in a sensible range of cuts/sizes
• incorporate the demands of front line users ( NOT one type fits all)
• modern
• sober colours

 

[TheManBehind]

typical of your slap dash continentals

It really threw me when I first spied a French driver getting out of his train in his jeans and pullover! One benefit of a uniform is that you do, at least, have a better idea that whoever is there is supposed to be there (ostensibly at least...)

 

[Qwerty133]

I agree with you 100% - see any of my comments on uniforms in the past! To reiterate uniforms need to be:

• Practical
• sensible
• easy care but hard wearing
• mitigate the effects of the season ( waterproof in winter/light in summer)
• Decent quality fabrics
• Easy to replace
• come in a sensible range of cuts/sizes
• incorporate the demands of front line users ( NOT one type fits all)
• modern
• sober colours

I would add the following two points but otherwise that's a good list;
- Recognisable
- Difficult to Copy / Fake

 

[DarloRich]

I would add the following two points but otherwise that's a good list;
- Recognisable
- Difficult to Copy / Fake

and, of course, they should be suitable for both sexes.

 

[thelongestroad]

There are some TOCs that have the aspiration of a Qatar Airways/Emirates style dress code but with the operational excellence of Maleth Aero.

I agree a smart and presentable uniform should be worn - but this doesn't have to mean looking like a public schoolboy. Likewise I think some TOCs, like Northern, go too far to the other side and often look a little scruffy..

 

[Towers]

It really threw me when I first spied a French driver getting out of his train in his jeans and pullover! One benefit of a uniform is that you do, at least, have a better idea that whoever is there is supposed to be there (ostensibly at least...)

Indeed; without wanting to sound alarmist, in this age of constant terrorism threat and relentless high security alert it makes a great deal of sense requiring staff to wear clearly identifiable uniforms, rather than just turning up in jeans and a t shirt. It’s by no means foolproof of course, but it’s a pretty basic starting point!

 

[saismee]

and, of course, they should be suitable for both sexes.

Ideally a gender neutral uniform should be included too, but the male uniform usually acts as that anyway.

I agree a smart and presentable uniform should be worn - but this doesn't have to mean looking like a public schoolboy. Likewise I think some TOCs, like Northern, go too far to the other side and often look a little scruffy..

While I don't necessarily care what the staff are wearing while I'm travelling, I do think smarter uniform makes the high fares feel a little less offensive. Either way I'm getting the same standard class service. I'd appreciate it more if I paid for first class, but I'm also not the one doing the work so my opinion is irrelevant!

 

[ModernRailways]

I agree a smart and presentable uniform should be worn - but this doesn't have to mean looking like a public schoolboy. Likewise I think some TOCs, like Northern, go too far to the other side and often look a little scruffy.

I feel like Northerns problem is the quality of the uniform is abysmal. Letters on jackets peeling/peeled off, uniform that is designed for all, so ends up not fitting anyone particularly well. The general look of the uniform is also poor, with the blue washing out and looking scruffy. The poor quality, understandably, also leads to staff wearing their own clothes. Northern does seem quite lenient in terms of uniform policy when compared to other TOCs though and I personally think that’s a good thing, providing staff remain identifiable and have a common top.

 

[rangersac]

that is just someone being a smart arsenal to make a point - I usually side with that sort of approach but it is sometimes a bit trite.

The other issue with shorts is that companies also should be sending out sun cream. many of us find the sun to be an enemy!

That's a choice though, you could choose to wear trousers for sun protection. And many roles might be outdoors but in the shade e.g. dispatching from under a station canopy so suncream wouldn't be necessary.

 

[43066]

That's a choice though, you could choose to wear trousers for sun protection. And many roles might be outdoors but in the shade e.g. dispatching from under a station canopy so suncream wouldn't be necessary.

Not really, if wearing trousers makes you too hot and uncomfortable to work safely.

 

[DarloRich]

That's a choice though, you could choose to wear trousers for sun protection. And many roles might be outdoors but in the shade e.g. dispatching from under a station canopy so suncream wouldn't be necessary.

Agreed - but the sensible employer should still be offering outdoors workers sun cream when the climate requires it. ( same as they give you a waterproof coat in the wet)

 

[Zomboid]

That's fraught with danger, some sun creams contain almond oil/ extract, which is obviously an allergen.

Easy to say "buy something else", but who's to say that won't have a different allergen? Best to make it the individual's responsibility to provide something suitable for themselves.

 

[DarloRich]

That's fraught with danger, some sun creams contain almond oil/ extract, which is obviously an allergen.

I get that but my employer manages to issue it as required so must have thought of this - they wouldn't risk any problems.

 

[DavyCrocket]

Employers should provide sun protection including clothing and hats and sunscreen. Though TfL claim they don’t have any risk assessment as services are in tunnels. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0395-2223

 

[Qwerty133]

Agreed - but the sensible employer should still be offering outdoors workers sun cream when the climate requires it. ( same as they give you a waterproof coat in the wet)

Should they also provide shower gel and deodorant so their employees don't stink or do you accept some degree of personal responsibility?

 

[DarloRich]

Should they also provide shower gel and deodorant so their employees don't stink or do you accept some degree of personal responsibility?

shall we get a grip of ourselves? That is not the same thing and you know that.

BTW - my employer puts soap and toilet roll in the toilets. Perhaps they should stop that...................

 

[greatkingrat]

There was a case which reached the Court of Appeal which decided employers do not have any obligation to provide suncreen.

Appeal Court judges block gardener's bid to sue council over failure to provide sun cream

Tracey Earl had sued Middlesbrough Council for £5,000 - claiming it was under a legal duty to provide her with cream and a hat at work

www.gazettelive.co.uk

Summing up the case and refusing permission to appeal the judge said: “Ms Earl developed a non-cancerous skin condition and in 2008 had an operation to remove a spot on her nose...
“She claimed her employer failed to take reasonable steps to provide protection (from the sun).”
The county court judge had been entitled to reject the claim after hearing expert evidence relating to the latency of Ms Earl’s condition, the effectiveness of sunscreen in prevention and the rate of incidence in outdoor workers.
Lord Justice Briggs concluded: “It is well known that the quality of the expert evidence is a matter for the judge.
“This is a hopeless appeal for a very modest amount.”

 

[Zomboid]

I think there's some false equivalence here...

It's probably fair enough to say "we'll give you clothes, you are responsible for your own skincare".

 

[Krokodil]

Should they also provide shower gel and deodorant so their employees don't stink or do you accept some degree of personal responsibility?

Sun cream is effectively PPE. When I worked at a major theme park all staff gates had dispensers.

 

[saismee]

I think there's some false equivalence here...

It's probably fair enough to say "we'll give you clothes, you are responsible for your own skincare".

I think the differentiating factor is that a raincoat (as @DarloRich mentioned) is likely a company-branded piece of the uniform. Unless they're giving you a stencil to apply the sunscreen in your company's logo, I wouldn't consider it part of the uniform. In my opinion, employers should be supplying and encouraging the use of sunscreen as a lot of people don't use it enough.

 

[43066]

I think the differentiating factor is that a raincoat (as @DarloRich mentioned) is likely a company-branded piece of the uniform. Unless they're giving you a stencil to apply the sunscreen in your company's logo, I wouldn't consider it part of the uniform. In my opinion, employers should be supplying and encouraging the use of sunscreen as a lot of people don't use it enough.

Not all uniform is company branded, and PPE isn’t either in many cases.

 

[Purple Train]

French train drivers don't wear uniforms.

I mean, I know it's been far too hot lately, but surely that's a bit far...?

Forbidding staff from wearing a hat is something I absolutely cannot understand. It's good protection, it helps prevent glare, and it really doesn't look unprofessional in the slightest (in fact it looks quite smart, depending on the type of hat*). If a driver is allowed to wear a cowboy hat of such magnificence as the one I encountered at Basingstoke recently, I can't see any reason why it would compromise the ability of a guard to perform their role.

*Apologies, must confess slight vested interest as someone who a) has had a weird obsession with the concept of guarding since forever and b) is extremely envious of one of the regular Slough dispatchers' GWR-branded baseball cap

 

[styles]

I think the differentiating factor is that a raincoat (as @DarloRich mentioned) is likely a company-branded piece of the uniform. Unless they're giving you a stencil to apply the sunscreen in your company's logo, I wouldn't consider it part of the uniform. In my opinion, employers should be supplying and encouraging the use of sunscreen as a lot of people don't use it enough.

PPE, or indeed uniform, doesn't need to be company-branded. Else every pair of gloves, wellies, steel toe-capped boots, trousers, skirts, hi-viz, etc would have to bear company branding. If Grand Central decided tomorrow that their uniform was going to be logo-less plain colour navy and orange shirts and trousers/skirts/shorts, they could legitimately provide that as uniform. When my employer gave me gloves, hard hat, boots, and hi-viz, they were considered PPE despite not having the company logo on.

If a company had staff working outside in the sun all day, I'm pretty sure they could give staff suncream as PPE and not be liable for tax. The HMRC tax manual isn't that prescriptive to list suncream specifically, but I can't see how it could be argued against (and I don't think even HMRC would want the bad PR of appearing to 'ban suncream' for staff working outside 8 hours a day). I would add though that to avoid personal use coming into play, an employer would be best off keeping the suncream on-site. We wouldn't consider hand sanitising gel a benefit-in-kind for tax purposes, so I'm not sure we should could suncream any differently.

 

[saismee]

To be honest, I forgot that not all uniform is branded, and I forgot that some PPE is! I think free sunscreen would be appreciated overall.

 

[dk1]

I’ve always got sun cream in my work bag during Summer. Not something I have ever considered my employer needs to provide.