Horsham - Glasgow Adv (Reservations)

[RUFJAN15]

A bit of a long shot, however someone may know a work-around.

My daughter has purchased a Horsham - Glasgow Advance (VTWC & Connections) for use in a few weeks time. She is taking a bike with her and intends to travel up to London by the valid route Horsham - Three Bridges - St Pancras. These local trains are not quota restricted and seat/train reservations cannot be issued.

Unfortunately, when she booked the ticket online she was offered a connection to London on a Portsmouth - Horsham - Victoria fast train and did not stop and ask advice. The result is that she has been issued with a mandatory reservation on this quota-controlled train with a 50min connection time in London; a bit tight if you have to cycle from Victoria to Euston (even before considering the issue of current GTR reliability).

If I try to book the same ticket specifying 'via Redhill' then I get the same price but no reservation for the Horsham - London leg (as the itinerary starts with a non-quota Horsham - London Bridge train).

My question is, are there any clear guidelines on whether you can use a non-quota 'reasonable' connection to get to London rather than the mandatory reservation that has been issued?

If it helps, she is booked on the 12.30 from Euston and the mandatory reservation is on the 10.49 Horsham - Victoria. Instead, she plans to catch the 10.00 Horsham - Three Bridges (continues to London Bridge) and 10.35 Three Bridges - St Pancras (a 11.33).

 

[Paul Kelly]

If the mandatory reservation is printed on a separate paper ticket (i.e. not one of the new-style ones where the reservations are printed on the ticket itself), she could just discard the reservation for the first part of the journey and nobody should be any the wiser. The Euston-Glasgow reservation is the most important one that inspectors will want to see.

Discarding the first reservation and travelling on an earlier non-reservable train (for the connecting leg only) would technically be a breach of the conditions that apply to advance fares, but as there is no attempt to avoid a higher price here train company policy is, as I understand it, generally not to enforce this sort of thing.

 

[cjp]

If she is a confident cyclist the ride to Euston from Victoria is only about 25 - 30 minutes.

 

[RUFJAN15]

If the mandatory reservation is printed on a separate paper ticket (i.e. not one of the new-style ones where the reservations are printed on the ticket itself), she could just discard the reservation for the first part of the journey and nobody should be any the wiser. The Euston-Glasgow reservation is the most important one that inspectors will want to see.

Discarding the first reservation and travelling on an earlier non-reservable train (for the connecting leg only) would technically be a breach of the conditions that apply to advance fares, but as there is no attempt to avoid a higher price here train company policy is, as I understand it, generally not to enforce this sort of thing.

That was my first thought too! It's an old-style ticket but has the legend 'three coupons' in small print in the top RH corner (i.e ticket + two reservation coupons).

If it was my own ticket I would probably chance it, however my daughter doesn't want a run-in with an unsympathetic RPI. I was hoping that there might be an industry guideline that validated what would appear to be a perfectly reasonable use of the ticket.
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If she is a confident cyclist the ride to Euston from Victoria is only about 25 - 30 minutes.

Agreed; it used to be an easy run when I was a student cycling around London.

The problem is that she's heading up to Glasgow Uni for the winter term, will be carrying too much luggage and doesn't know the route. Also her cycling experience is around Cambridge and Horsham, a poor preparation for London traffic.

If we can't find a work-around then Dad is going to have to stump up for a new ticket to St Pancras!

 

[clagmonster]

If we can't find a work-around then Dad is going to have to stump up for a new ticket to St Pancras!

Could Dad not save himself some pennies by paying the £10 admin fee to amend the existing ticket to the desired administration fee rather than the £14.50 for a railcard discounted Horsham - St Pancras single.

 

[gray1404]

Southern are allowing customers on advance tickets to catch Southern services up to one hour earlier then their booked train. Southern tickets are also being accepted on Thameslink services. Both these provisions are in place during the emergency timetable. She can therefore travel earlier and use TL as planned.

In future try entering St Pancras as a via point when booking the ticket. Also, a Route: VTWC&Connections ticket should include a + for cross London transfer. I believe bikes are permitted on the underground outside of the peak.

http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/revised-timetable

I have an Advance ticket, what shall I do?
For the duration of the revised timetable, we are allowing customers to catch Southern trains up to an hour earlier than their booked one to ensure they meet their booked connection. If you miss any connection because of service disruption, we have asked other operators to allow you to continue your journey on the next available train without penalty.
Will I be able to use my ticket on other train operators’ services, the London Underground or London buses?
Any tickets that are normally valid on other routes (such as Oyster on the Underground) will continue to be valid as usual.
London Underground
- Only tickets already valid on London Underground can be used on these services
Thameslink
- Southern tickets can be used on Thameslink services.

 

[RUFJAN15]

Southern are allowing customers on advance tickets to catch Southern services up to one hour earlier then their booked train. Southern tickets are also being accepted on Thameslink services. Both these provisions are in place during the emergency timetable. She can therefore travel earlier and use TL as planned.

In future try entering St Pancras as a via point when booking the ticket. Also, a Route: VTWC&Connections ticket should include a + for cross London transfer. I believe bikes are permitted on the underground outside of the peak.

Result! Thanks very much gray1404.

I will give my daughter instructions on buying a more flexible ticket in future. Unfortunately when I tried the 'via St Pancras' trick it didn't work as the TrainLine booking engine puts you on a quota controlled train from Horsham to Three Bridges (and issues a reservation). 'Via Redhill' works during the day when the fast trains run up the direct line and 'via Dorking' is a useful backup.

UPDATE: I just tried 'via Littlehaven' and that doesn't seem to throw up a reservation provided you don't opt to change at Gatwick.

I should add that I was only using the TrainLine to check what reservations would be issued with the ticket - I had no intention of paying their booking fee.

 

[yorkie]

I'm confident she can use any "appropriate" (as the conditions say) connecting train operated by GTR (irrespective of route branding) on any of the reasonable and sensible routes into London.

I agree it's better to go into St Pancras, the transfer to Euston would then be made on very quiet roads, via Brill Place/Phoenix Road (see map) by turning right at the gateline, then right again heading north on Midland Road very briefly before turning left into Brill Place. The route is signed.

 

[Hadders]

I don't think cycles are allowed on the deep level Underground lines at any time of day.

 

[yorkie]

I don't think cycles are allowed on the deep level Underground lines at any time of day.

That's correct, deep level tube lines are out!

The tube lines are fine when they are above ground in the suburbs, and the sub-surface lines are fine (outside peak times). Victoria-Euston Square would be fine, but it's so much easier (and quicker) to travel via Blackfriars.

 

[gray1404]

I didn't realise until I saw this map how restrictive it was in terms of which lines you cannot take your bike on via the tube.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/bicycles-on-public-transport.pdf