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Hope Valley Route This Summer

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RichmondCommu

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G'day everyone.

Can anyone tell me whether there will be anotified hourly weekday service this summer. I thought I'd read that Northern were looking to improve service frequency along the route.

Many thanks.

Richmond Commuter!
 
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Dr Hoo

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Wasn't the proposed hourly Northern service subject to the upgrades at Dore and Grindleford?

Precisely. Needs Bamford eastbound loop, Dore South Curve 'lengthening' and Dore North Curve re-doubling to allow current and expected levels of freight alongside hourly weekday stopping passenger service.

Local word is that the planning enquiry conclusions have been delayed so all bets off as to when it actually happens.
 

furnessvale

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Precisely. Needs Bamford eastbound loop, Dore South Curve 'lengthening' and Dore North Curve re-doubling to allow current and expected levels of freight alongside hourly weekday stopping passenger service.

Local word is that the planning enquiry conclusions have been delayed so all bets off as to when it actually happens.

Didn't CPRE object to the rail works saying that it would increase the number of trains passing through the Peak District?

Far better that the traffic stops on road through that same Peak District?
 

CaptainHaddock

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Didn't CPRE object to the rail works saying that it would increase the number of trains passing through the Peak District?

Far better that the traffic stops on road through that same Peak District?

Indeed they did.

http://bailey.persona-pi.com/Public...he Peak District and CPRE South Yorkshire.pdf

The most recent document suggests it's the Bamford Loop that CPRE object to.

http://bailey.persona-pi.com/Public...E-documentsduringinquiry/OP-INQ/OP-INQ-45.pdf
 
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Frothy

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Excitingly, in a similar planning enquiry on the M67/Manc-Sheff road, I think CPRE objected on the grounds that efforts should be focused on providing additional rail capacity instead...

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Ediswan

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Are the same people also campainging for the closure of the hulking great cement factory and restoration of the natural landscape? It doesn't bother me. But if you were truly concernced about blots on the landscape, that factory is far more conspicuous than the railway.
 

RichmondCommu

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Are the same people also campainging for the closure of the hulking great cement factory and restoration of the natural landscape? It doesn't bother me. But if you were truly concernced about blots on the landscape, that factory is far more conspicuous than the railway.

Hmm. Take away the cement works and you might not need the loop. Its worth mentioning here that the cement works generates a lot of freight traffic for the railway running through the Hope Valley.
 

johnnychips

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I always wonder why a passing loop isn't possible at the Hope cement works sidings. They never seem to be all in use.

At the M67 extension (Mottram, Hollingsworth and Tintwistle bypass) public enquiry a few years back, someone - don't know if it was the CPRE - seriously suggested reopening the Woodhead line and making lorries do a Channel Tunnel style operation, loading them at the old Mottram Yard and unloading them somewhere near Stocksbridge.
 

furnessvale

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I always wonder why a passing loop isn't possible at the Hope cement works sidings. They never seem to be all in use.

At the M67 extension (Mottram, Hollingsworth and Tintwistle bypass) public enquiry a few years back, someone - don't know if it was the CPRE - seriously suggested reopening the Woodhead line and making lorries do a Channel Tunnel style operation, loading them at the old Mottram Yard and unloading them somewhere near Stocksbridge.

That would simply divert all the HGVs onto the M62.

If rail is to be used in such a situation, it is most viable when the traffic is put on rail at the first opportunity and kept on rail as far as possible. Trans-shipment costs are not cheap and need to be offset by as long a rail leg as possible.
 

Dr Hoo

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There is a Westbound freight looping facility at Earle's Sidings for 'non-Hope' trains, which is quite often used to hold empties returning to the Peak Forest line. Heeley Loop, south of Sheffield, is also often used.

The problem is that there is no corresponding Eastbound facility and moves in this direction are generally heavier, slower, loaded trains. Dore South Curve (and the loop at Earle's Sidings for that matter) are relatively short and restrict the length of some freights. Other enhancements (under the Strategic Freight Network programme) have improved capability for longer freights on the Chinley curves, Manton Junction and Sundon Loop between the Peak District and London. Longer trains will mean that fewer will be needed in future, giving a further capacity benefit.

In a recent interview in RAIL Magazine Martin Frobisher of Network Rail was reported as saying that the Hope Valley capacity scheme had slipped from Control Period 5 to Control Period 6 so we may well be looking at a date well into the 2020s for the full fruits of passenger and freight service improvement.
 

Mugby

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How does the Hope Valley stopper manage to operate hourly on Saturdays but only two hourly on weekdays?

Is there more freight Mondays to Fridays?
 

northwichcat

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It's worth noting on weekdays some of the stations get peak time extra calls on the TPE and EMT services, while at the weekend they are only served by the all-stops Northern services.
 

Class 170101

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How does the Hope Valley stopper manage to operate hourly on Saturdays but only two hourly on weekdays?

Is there more freight Mondays to Fridays?

Less Freight on Saturdays. On Monday to Friday The hourly slot is shared between freight and the Northern passenger service off peak.
 

furnessvale

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. Longer trains will mean that fewer will be needed in future, giving a further capacity benefit.
.

Given that Tunstead quarry alone has aspirations to double output, and has stated all of that increase will move by rail, there is no guarantee that longer trains will mean fewer trains.
 

RichmondCommu

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There is a Westbound freight looping facility at Earle's Sidings for 'non-Hope' trains, which is quite often used to hold empties returning to the Peak Forest line. Heeley Loop, south of Sheffield, is also often used.

The problem is that there is no corresponding Eastbound facility and moves in this direction are generally heavier, slower, loaded trains. Dore South Curve (and the loop at Earle's Sidings for that matter) are relatively short and restrict the length of some freights. Other enhancements (under the Strategic Freight Network programme) have improved capability for longer freights on the Chinley curves, Manton Junction and Sundon Loop between the Peak District and London. Longer trains will mean that fewer will be needed in future, giving a further capacity benefit.

Thanks for sharing this. Just out of interest where abouts is Sundon Loop?
 

Dr Hoo

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Sundon Up Loop is just south of Harlington station on the Midland Main Line. It is over a kilometre long and is intended to provide an opportunity for long, heavy Class 6, 60mph freights to recess between frequent Thameslink EMU services.
 
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Bevan Price

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Well you say that but I suspect Earles Sidings are much busier at night judging by the number of class 66s parked up during the day.
They are used in daytime, but arriving trains are taken to the factory by the cement company's own locomotives.

Freightliner also stables some locos here that are used on other Peak District freight duties (Dowlow, Tunstead, Peak Forest areas, etc.)
 

RichmondCommu

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Yes they do.
1R50 (0655 to Liverpool)
1L20 (2301 to Nottingham)
Both of which are East Midland Trains services.
Sam

Okay fair enough but that's of no use to me if I'm planning a day on Kinder Scout with my family and want to head up mid week when things are a bit quieter.
 

RichmondCommu

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They are used in daytime, but arriving trains are taken to the factory by the cement company's own locomotives.

Freightliner also stables some locos here that are used on other Peak District freight duties (Dowlow, Tunstead, Peak Forest areas, etc.)

Do they still hire in a class 20? When I was a spotter in the early 1980s it was a class 08 from Tinsley doing the job. I've always assumed that the viaduct at Hope is not strong enough to take a heavy mainline loco.
 

Dr Hoo

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They still have a Class 20. 'Large'/heavy wagons are commonly moved in rafts of six. The fact that the DB HTA coal sets have conventional couplings between every sixth wagon but the rest autocouplers is a give-away.
 
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