Holborn escalator speed

[Mikey C]

Using Holborn today, the escalators up to the street (the bank of 4) seemed incredibly slow, way slower than ones elsewhere on the network.

Can LU change the speed of escalators to temporarily save energy or wear and tear, or are they always that slow?

 

[Mawkie]

Using Holborn today, the escalators up to the street (the bank of 4) seemed incredibly slow, way slower than ones elsewhere on the network.

Can LU change the speed of escalators to temporarily save energy or wear and tear, or are they always that slow?

How slow was it? The second part of this MQT talks about reducing escalator speeds. Not sure if Holborn is included in the first 12 machines.

TfL Engineering and London Underground are also rolling out permanent speed reduction on escalators, from 0.75 metres/second to 0.65 m/s. At present TfL has funding for 12 machines to expand its original trial. The power saving is around 12 to 13 per cent. Figures from a trial at Wanstead showed this would result in a cost saving of £2,000 per annum per escalator.

 

[Pegpilot]

But surely cost savings are just one factor in the Cost Benefit Analysis. Wanstead is one thing, but Holborn handles over 60 million pax p.a. and they're travelling deep. A quick fag packet calc suggests that the slower speed would cost 13 seconds per pax or about 240,000 pax hours a year. At £10 per hour value of time, pax disbenefit would be over £2 million p.a. But then it's been a generation since I prepared an LUL investment case, so what do I know ? Just seems a bit odd.

 

[Mawkie]

They did have that trial at Holborn regarding standing on the right and left! As far as I remember that increased passenger flow rates, but ultimately wasn't deemed to be successful.

 

[Watershed]

How slow was it? The second part of this MQT talks about reducing escalator speeds. Not sure if Holborn is included in the first 12 machines.

Isn't that grand - as long as it saves a bit of money who cares whether it makes journeys longer!

It's farcical how TfL will spend millions elsewhere to speed up journeys and yet here they are engaging in the most ridiculous penny pinching.

 

[Mawkie]

Isn't that grand - as long as it saves a bit of money who cares whether it makes journeys longer!

It's farcical how TfL will spend millions elsewhere to speed up journeys and yet here they are engaging in the most ridiculous penny pinching.

Just repeating that I don't know if Holborn is included in this speed reduction the OP noted.

However, whilst I acknowledge (and agree with) your point on the cost savings of reducing escalator speeds, 80% of accidents on TfL property are trips, slips, and falls, with the majority being on stairs and escalators. There is soon to be a concerted effort to reduce these kinds of accidents across the network - and this reduction in speed aligns quite well with this.

A further accident reduction scheme will be 30 escalators fitted with "escalator annunciators" giving safety information to passengers - apparently by the end of the year. I personally find them annoying at my local Tesco, but if they reduce accidents, then ok.

 

[Mikey C]

Just repeating that I don't know if Holborn is included in this speed reduction the OP noted.

However, whilst I acknowledge (and agree with) your point on the cost savings of reducing escalator speeds, 80% of accidents on TfL property are trips, slips, and falls, with the majority being on stairs and escalators. There is soon to be a concerted effort to reduce these kinds of accidents across the network - and this reduction in speed aligns quite well with this.

A further accident reduction scheme will be 30 escalators fitted with "escalator annunciators" giving safety information to passengers - apparently by the end of the year. I personally find them annoying at my local Tesco, but if they reduce accidents, then ok.

A slower escalator going up won't decrease falls, which are surely more of an issue going down?

How slow was it? The second part of this MQT talks about reducing escalator speeds. Not sure if Holborn is included in the first 12 machines.

I didn't measure the speed, but it made for a tedious journey. It was definitely slower than the one from the Piccadilly Line up to the middle level.

And surely a permanent reduction in escalator speed reduces capacity, as it will take longer to get passengers into and out of the station. After all, if you slowed down the Victoria Line by 15%, it would reduce energy consumption, but also the capacity of the line.

 

[jon0844]

A further accident reduction scheme will be 30 escalators fitted with "escalator annunciators" giving safety information to passengers - apparently by the end of the year. I personally find them annoying at my local Tesco, but if they reduce accidents, then ok.

I sometimes jump over the 'please prepare to move your trolley off the end of the travelator' sensor to stop this message playing, when I don't have a trolley of course.

Not sure that would be a good idea on an escalator though!

 

[Ken X]

Slips, trips and falls on escalators have caused concern ever since they were invented. A reduction in speed was postulated many years ago to help mitigate this.

It was found that, below a certain speed, users started to walk up or down the machine thereby increasing the accident rate. As a result the speed was left as per the standard.

 

[Recessio]

Do all escalators normally move at the same standard speed, or does it depend on length, steepness, make etc?

(excluding any that have a "quiet" mode that speeds up when a passengers steps onto it - Gatwick Airport railway station for example)

 

[CharlieSpotted]

(excluding any that have a "quiet" mode that speeds up when a passengers steps onto it - Gatwick Airport railway station for example)

On this, I wonder why they don't simply stop when there haven't been passengers for a while, instead of slowing down.

You'd need to make sure that when they restarted it was smooth and didn't "jerk", and that might be a challenge, and because it's novel you'd probably need some signage to tell people what to expect but surely the power saving there would be massive? It surely wouldn't be impossible to engineer.

 

[Recessio]

On this, I wonder why they don't simply stop when there haven't been passengers for a while, instead of slowing down.

You'd need to make sure that when they restarted it was smooth and didn't "jerk", and that might be a challenge, and because it's novel you'd probably need some signage to tell people what to expect but surely the power saving there would be massive? It surely wouldn't be impossible to engineer.

I wonder if a stop would make people think the escalator is broken? We already know how many customers can miss signage...

Personally even the speed up on e.g. Gatwick escalators caught me off-guard the first time I used it and I nearly lost my balance. Speculation on my part, but I also wonder if maybe stopping and starting is worse for wear and tear than slowing down and speeding up?

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you were going to trial slowing escalators down it would make sense to trial it at a busy station to see whether it does actually make journeys longer. A slower escalator may reduce a bottleneck at the ticket barrier, for instance, in the same way lower speed limits can improve throughput on a congested motorway.

On this, I wonder why they don't simply stop when there haven't been passengers for a while, instead of slowing down.

Certainly in Germany, eco-mode used to be a complete stop. It caught me off guard when the escalator started moving. It seems that eco-mode now isn't a complete stop in Germany, presumably for that reason.

Slow may also be more energy-efficient overall than a complete stop, as quite a bit of any energy expenditure is overcoming any initial inertia.

 

[WideRanger]

If you find TFL escalators insufficiently exhilarating, try Tbilisi metro.

 

[geoffk]

A further accident reduction scheme will be 30 escalators fitted with "escalator annunciators" giving safety information to passengers - apparently by the end of the year. I personally find them annoying at my local Tesco, but if they reduce accidents, then ok.

Sounds like an escalation of the "please hold the handrail" announcement which pervades major GWR stations.

 

[Tester]

Speeds definitely vary - Hong Kong MTR escalators seem faster than average.

 

[Egg Centric]

But surely cost savings are just one factor in the Cost Benefit Analysis. Wanstead is one thing, but Holborn handles over 60 million pax p.a. and they're travelling deep. A quick fag packet calc suggests that the slower speed would cost 13 seconds per pax or about 240,000 pax hours a year. At £10 per hour value of time, pax disbenefit would be over £2 million p.a. But then it's been a generation since I prepared an LUL investment case, so what do I know ? Just seems a bit odd.

Interesting- maybe we should speed them up HK MTR style then. Are the ones we have adjustable like that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 14:36 ==

If you find TFL escalators insufficiently exhilarating, try Tbilisi metro.

Yeah it's quite a thing in the old Soviet places for some reason, perhaps precisely cause they did this cost/benefit analysis on entire economy basis. Much better imo.

 

[Ken X]

The escalators at Gatwick were fitted with energy saving software which slowed the machine to half speed if not used for a set time and to stop after a further duration without use.

If the machine was approached from the on end the machine would start in half speed and smoothly ramp up to full speed. If the stationary machine is approached from the off end it immediately ramps up to full speed before a user could try to use it.

There were roughly 150 escalators and moving walks at Gatwick, some of which would be very infrequently used so the power saving must have been considerable.

There were many call outs for inoperative machines before the staff got the hang of how they worked.

 

[NCT]

I'm pretty sure tube escalators are faster than your standard shopping centre escalators. The speed can be a bit of a shock to someone new to London.

 

[Ken X]

I'm pretty sure tube escalators are faster than your standard shopping centre escalators. The speed can be a bit of a shock to someone new to London.

It may be due to it being a steeper angle than shop escalators.

Sadly I have just rolled out of my local pub so not best placed to recall the figures. That and having retired several years ago.

I will see if I can lay my hands on some paperwork tomorrow. It's been a long time since I played with a TfL machine.

 

[Taunton]

The escalator at Waterloo from the Jubilee ticket hall up to the main station concourse has always been desperately slow; I wonder why.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Speeds definitely vary - Hong Kong MTR escalators seem faster than average.

0.8 m/s according to this article:

The delicate balance between escalator speed, capacity, & safety (CityMonitor)

If we want to increase escalator capacity, why don’t we just run them faster? Well, here's why. On long escalators, the vast majority of people don’t want to walk. Thus, huge queues build up at the bottom of the escalator as large numbers of people try to

londonreconnections.com

Looking further afield, city transport networks across the world run their escalators at all sorts of different speeds. New York City’s are considered slow, running at about 0.45m per second, while Prague, Stockholm, Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou settle around 0.6m per second. Sydney, Singapore, and Seoul’s systems square up to London’s standard speed in the 0.75m per second region, with Seoul pushing ahead slightly at 0.78m per second. The trailblazer, though, is Hong Kong, whose escalators breeze along at 0.8m per second.

The Singapore MRT - another high density metro - uses two speeds. A higher speed for peak and lower speed for off peak.

Metro escalator refurbishment matches speed to the time of day

SINGAPORE: Otis has completed a six-year project to refurbish 231 escalators at 42 stations on the North-South and East-West metro lines, installing additional safety features, improving efficiency and enabling operation at different speeds depending on the time of day. The escalators are...

www.railwaygazette.com

The escalators are programmed to move at a slower speed at 0.5 m/sec during off-peak hours to be safer for the elderly and young children, while during peak hours they move at the standard 0.75 m/sec to increase throughput.

 

[Snow1964]

Do all escalators normally move at the same standard speed,

Yes most are 0.75m/s, some lower use ones are 0.65m/s

or does it depend on length, steepness, make etc?

All modern escalators are built with 30 degree slope, some early ones were built to 1 in 7 (about 28.5 degrees), and a few early escalator shafts are built to this

(excluding any that have a "quiet" mode that speeds up when a passengers steps onto it - Gatwick Airport railway station for example)

Decades ago London Underground trialled the slow down when empty, they called it speedray, only applied to up escalators (because passengers used them after getting off a train, gap between trains no users), down escalators saw more of continuous flow. At the time was deemed extra cost of the equipment didn't justify it over just running them, but of course electronics and motors are much better nowadays.

On this, I wonder why they don't simply stop when there haven't been passengers for a while, instead of slowing down.

Generally some people think it is turned off, even if there is a red light, rather than on standby, and will walk on it even if in wrong direction, so a slow move prevents them for entering at wrong end.

Where there are dedicated direction passageways this isn't a problem because no one should approach from wrong end

 

[jumble]

I wonder if a stop would make people think the escalator is broken? We already know how many customers can miss signage...

Personally even the speed up on e.g. Gatwick escalators caught me off-guard the first time I used it and I nearly lost my balance. Speculation on my part, but I also wonder if maybe stopping and starting is worse for wear and tear than slowing down and speeding up?

The good burghers of Zurich have no such problem in stopping escalators when no one is on them and them starting when someone gets on
Mind you the Swiss would be most unlikely to leave a non working escalator without a sign

 

[Jaydubya]

It’s already very time consuming getting to the platforms at Holborn station. And going up either the bank of four escalators, the depth and/or steepness gives me vertigo problems from the Central Line to ticket hall. So the thought of having to stand on the escalators for even longer is another turn off. Already I will get off at another station and walk rather than use this station. Most other stations are absolutely fine. Not sure how common vertigo problems are. Going down which you would think would be worse is absolutely no problem!

 

[Mojo]

Generally some people think it is turned off, even if there is a red light, rather than on standby, and will walk on it even if in wrong direction, so a slow move prevents them for entering at wrong end.

Yes, I think it’s quite dangerous to have them just switched off. I was on a flight into Zurich airport a few months ago and there were two escalators from the jetbridge level heading up. One escalator was in service running up and the other was stopped. As a whole plane load of people had arrived there was quite a long queue for the ‘up’ escalator so a number of people started walking up the one that was stopped, which duly started running backward as the first people got to the top. I ended up operating the emergency stop handle to avoid an incident.

 

[Tester]

Yes, I think it’s quite dangerous to have them just switched off. I was on a flight into Zurich airport a few months ago and there were two escalators from the jetbridge level heading up. One escalator was in service running up and the other was stopped. As a whole plane load of people had arrived there was quite a long queue for the ‘up’ escalator so a number of people started walking up the one that was stopped, which duly started running backward as the first people got to the top. I ended up operating the emergency stop handle to avoid an incident.

The Japanese have that covered.

I once observed someone inadvertently head to go down a stopped up escalator.

The banks of flashing red lights and sirens, as well as the escalator starting up before they got near it, was something to behold!

 

[Snow1964]

The Japanese have that covered.

I once observed someone inadvertently head to go down a stopped up escalator.

The banks of flashing red lights and sirens, as well as the escalator starting up before they got near it, was something to behold!

These days with modern sensors and electronic control, it is quite possible to detect someone approaching wrong end of an escalator.

Although installing it would be seen as capital investment in UK, which comes out of a different budget pot to ongoing electricity costs and wear and tear.

Going back to Holborn, have to understand how the 3.5 platform Piccadilly station was bodged to fit in the escalators in 1930s and build new platforms around the running tunnels on central line (replacing nearby British museum), and provide at ticket hall easy connection to north south tram subway, resulted in rather strange escalator layout.

 

[mike57]

If there is more than one escalator in a given direction then surely shutting one down completely during quiet spells would be more efficent. Have an automatic barrier at the top and bottom to stop people using it when stopped.

 

[artemic]

The escalators into St. Pancras concourse by the southern exit are refreshingly/annoyingly (take your pick) much slower than the ones down to the tunnel from the Tube ticket hall - presumably an NR/TfL thing? I always feel compelled to walk up or down as they are only short.

If there is more than one escalator in a given direction then surely shutting one down completely during quiet spells would be more efficent. Have an automatic barrier at the top and bottom to stop people using it when stopped.

They always seem to be trialling not running one of the three escalators to/from the Tube ticket hall whenever I'm at Euston... "broken"