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Hitachi to win IEP bid on Tuesday??

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clagmonster

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I presume the idea is that for services such as Kings Cross-Harrogate, where the bulk of the journey is under the wires, the train is formed of a 5 car electric unit, and a 4 car diesel unit, which divides where the wires end. This would only work, however, on journeys where the loading is lower on the non-wired end than the wired end. What are the loadings like north of Edinburgh on the Aberdeen and Inverness services?
 
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Chafford1

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Hmm, I wonder if the bi-mode ones will be a DEMU/EMU mix.

Also 4 coaches isn't very long!

The bi-mode' will essentially be an EMU with an additional diesel powertrain feeding through motored axles. Unlike an HST, the IEP diesel powertrain won't be able to operate independently. The short IEPs will be separate 5 coach (electric) or 4 coach + diesel (bi-mode) trains.

The short IEPs will be capable of running with another unit in the rush hour.

The coaches themselves will be 26m long, compared with 20m for a Mk2 or 23m for a Mk3.

If you're looking for a bit of bedtime reading!

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/iep/iepinvitationtotender/ieptraintechnicalspecifi.pdf

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/iep/iepinvitationtotender/ittappendixc.pdf

DfT's invitation to bid for a 155mph version on page 11 is interesting! We'll see on Tuesday!
 

me123

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What are the loadings like north of Edinburgh on the Aberdeen and Inverness services?

Quite heavy up to Dundee, and light north of that. Dundee-Aberdeen is half hourly + NXEC and XC services, so that deals with the traffic quite well. But Glasgow-Dundee is only hourly at the moment, and the trains can get quite busy, especially with Perth and Stirling passengers. Edinburgh services were worse still, but there's now a half-hourly to Dundee which takes a lot of the strain off the turbostars.

Aberdeen passengers do, however, want "intercity class stock". They believe that the 170s are unsuitable for the journey. I disagree, because I think they're simply comparing FSR to NXEC, and NXEC's service should be superior as it goes on to London usually (let's not go there, though!).

That said, I think there would be demand for this. More people are travelling up that way and choosing this over their cars. I would say that, in 10-15 years time, there would be demand for a full intercity service, with a proper buffet and perhaps restaurant service on some peak time trains. The allows the 170s to be put on the interurban routes, which they will do a good job running.

Of course, this is a very long way into the future! I definitely do not see an urgent need to replace the 170s at the moment, and the proposed hourly Glasgow-Arbroath service, if it comes to fruition, should deal with passenger rises from Perth.

EDIT: I was thinking about Transport Scotland's possible order. NXEC north of Edinburgh could certainly cope with 4-5 cars; for the moment, anyway.
 

WillPS

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What concept GC one?

The only image I can find is from this BBC News article:
_41244950_grand_central203.jpg
 

Phoenix

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You'd have thought that by now they'd realised the Voyagers were a mistake!

The voyagers were indeed a mistake due to their stupid body profile which most companies insist on when tilting is involved and such made both APT prototypes less attractive.
But the concept of the DEMU is still one which is high up in the books of most TOC's as with the voyager because of having so many engines it was alot hard for the voyager family unit's to fail which will be added to this IEP if it is to sustain any worth while reliability.
 

Failed Unit

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That said, I think there would be demand for this. More people are travelling up that way and choosing this over their cars. I would say that, in 10-15 years time, there would be demand for a full intercity service, with a proper buffet and perhaps restaurant service on some peak time trains. The allows the 170s to be put on the interurban routes, which they will do a good job running.

I remember it when it was just a single 158 in the early 90's

Anyway in 10-15 years time I suspect that the route will be electric after Transport Scotland have dealt with the Central Belt. Then we will have another area the IEP will not require deisel traction at all! Oh well at least it will be useful for the London - Inverness service, I can't see Perth - Inverness ever justifying electric working but I could be wrong.
 

me123

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Aberdeen will probably have wires in about 20-30 years, although there's no plans set in stone at the moment.

Inverness; I'd say no for now. They're hardly going to wire up the Kyle or Far North lines in a hurry. So that means that there's still diesel operation up there. However, if Aberdeen-Inverness is done, Perth-Inverness may not be far behind. Dunno if it's cost effective, but there is an increased demand for the Aberdeen-Inverness trains and it would be better if they had more than one electrified route from Inverness.

This is all very far in the future, of course!
 

tbtc

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I'm not too bothered who wins the tender to build these, as long as we build enough of them and build them soon - we can't keep the HSTs going indefinately!

Oh !

The country is in the worst financial mess for ages and it probably take a generation to sort it out. Our children will still be paying taxes for the foolishness of the last few years.

Britain invented the railway. Surely we should be able to build our next generation of trains ourselves.

If nobody cares, then there is no point in complaining about our economy.
Nobody else is going to get Britain out this mess. We have to help ourselves out. If we don't then the recession will go on and on .... and on.

I don't want that. I can't believe that anyone else on this forum wants that too.

I didn't say I wasn't bothered about where they were built, I just said that I wasn't bothered which of the international companies won the tender. It's likely that at least a token amount of work will be in the UK for political reasons. I don't want a fudged political compromise though
 

robvulpes

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Announcement apparently delayed for 48 hrs, according to this blog:

<http://groups.google.com/group/uk.railway/browse_thread/thread/9a03dc306258a4a8/1457c68d001ef5e1?lnk=raot#1457c68d001ef5e1>

(sorry - on office pc and the hyperlink creation icon doesn't want to work)

Rob
 
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