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Hitachi AT-100

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159220

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A very brief post. I have noticed Hitachi are advertising there new EMU concept for future UK rail orders in various rail magazines. Its a picture of what i think is a good looking sleek train in the NE (County Durham) factory they are building (Next to a SET) and at Liverpool Street station.

There is no information about this train anywhere on Hitachi website or a search on google. Are any forum members aware of this product and able to share some more information? I am ever so curious to know more about the AT-100, looks like it could be a good contender for future rolling stock contracts, built in the UK!

Thanks in advance.
 
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mallard

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I didn't realise Hitachi had designed a "conventional EMU" variant of the A-train. It look's quite sleek, but is the yellow warning panel (shown blue and green in some of the images) big enough? It almost looks like the panel is illuminated in some of the renderings...
 

159220

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A very interesting .PDF thank you. I have had time to take a photo of the UK version of the communter "A" train...the AT100. I am pretty sure it looks different from the orginal Japanese design and im sure its at liverpool street...a good 315, 317 etc replacement? I think...YES!

I love Japanese trains, anyone who has yet to travel there, you must go! Its like the future we might one day have here.

Now given they would be built in County Durham, I hope people agree with me they are an ideal new EMU for our rails.
 

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T163R

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Saw the ad in Modern Railways. It just looks like a normal train ad, nothing to get excited about (for now).
 

cj_1985

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A very interesting .PDF thank you. I have had time to take a photo of the UK version of the communter "A" train...the AT100. I am pretty sure it looks different from the orginal Japanese design and im sure its at liverpool street...a good 315, 317 etc replacement? I think...YES!

I love Japanese trains, anyone who has yet to travel there, you must go! Its like the future we might one day have here.

Now given they would be built in County Durham, I hope people agree with me they are an ideal new EMU for our rails.

im curious... but what makes them "ideal"...
so far its just a CG image of a proposed product...
 

WatcherZero

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Good to see Hitachi are sticking to their word that while half the work on the first order would be done abroad they would use the County Durham plant they set up as a primary manufactury and stepping stone for future UK and Continental orders.
 

RichmondCommu

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Good to see Hitachi are sticking to their word that while half the work on the first order would be done abroad they would use the County Durham plant they set up as a primary manufactury and stepping stone for future UK and Continental orders.

All pigs fed and ready to fly.
 

159220

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I am pleased to hear there is an over all positive reaction to the AT100. There has been so much negative comments on the forum about Bombarider in Derby. I thought Hitachi could not of had better timing in advertising there communter EMU which will be manafactured in the UK. Thus train building will not be "dead" in the UK, instead we have been blessed by the outstandingly brilliant Japanese. No need now to panic and think of uttering mad words again about this Chinese CRSE nonsence!

I say the AT100 is ideal in a few sences. Notably because they will be manafactured in the UK with British jobs and skills under Japanese design technology. The Japanese are light years ahead of us and we have a good history with us developing ideas, in this case Rail, then the Japanese developing it to amazing effect. My favouritest example is Operation Judgement on the 11th November 1940 where us British did a "mini" Pearl Harbour on the Italians at Taranto. The Japanese observed this, thought highly of our idea and then went away and created the Pearl Harbour attack. Having travelled on the Japanese rail network they truly have taken everything we love about rail travel and worked on it like a art masterpiece. I mean theres even markings on platforms where you have to que to board the train, which stops at the exact point to the second hand on your watch!

I also believe the AT100 shall be ideal as it is to be built in the UK, thus safe guarding skill manafacturing jobs that everyone is up in arms about currently over at Bombardier,

This leads on to my other reason i say "ideal". They shall be built well, under great technology and by employees who actually will go the extra mile as that is the Japanese ethos. I read too often Derby staff are very much "set in their ways" and hence it is why after nearly 10 years the Electrostars look, well frankly, old and tired and "cheap" whereas the Desiros look still newish and strong.

Lastly what i utterly LOVE about Japanese trains (mainly the bullet trains) are the window arrangements. All of the seats line up to the windows as you have individual window per seat isle. All seats are uni directional, thus always airline, and swing around once the train goes in the reverse direction. It leads to higher loading as all seats are airline and all passengers can enjoy the view out of their window.

So, though these trains shall not be ordered anytime soon, it is great to see a future where we still have trains manafactured in the UK, with proven excellent technology and what well, look rather good i think!

We should all stand behind Hitachi and welcome them with there plans, celebrate none of us for much longer will have to bare another Bombardier train, excusing it as it was built here in the UK, missing out how rubbish it is!

And no i do not see pigs flying regarding there Country Durham plant. I would believe as it is a Japanese company they have planned this to every last detail. So when Hitachi say they are building it to attract further UK and European orders they mean it. After all the plant is close to sea docks where trains can easily be shipped over to continental Europe. Rather than being in Derby, surrounded by land and restricted by British Loading Guage.

Bring on future contracts being given to the At100 (and its DMU sister unit that i bet they are planning) including: Merseyrail, Anglian, Welsh Valleys and Great Western (when the 319s need to go). (Please note i did not say Crossrail as Crossrail would be mad not to order the Desiro City, anyother unit would not be compatiable with the Thameslink stock)
 

jon0844

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A very good interpretation. Why would the plant need to concentrate on trains only for the UK? Wouldn't it be great to see trains built there to be exported to mainland Europe, giving British workers the jobs?

Of course, the German equivalent of the Daily Mail (if there is one; there must be) will no doubt be up in arms about it!

Luckily for Hitachi, there's no link to Germany so we won't have a 'problem' with it being a foreign owner. We like the Japanese now!
 

fgwrich

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Lastly what i utterly LOVE about Japanese trains (mainly the bullet trains) are the window arrangements. All of the seats line up to the windows as you have individual window per seat isle. All seats are uni directional, thus always airline, and swing around once the train goes in the reverse direction. It leads to higher loading as all seats are airline and all passengers can enjoy the view out of their window.

We shall see...Im not totally convinced by the 395s interior - It dosent feel as spacious as the CAF built products, nor the Desiros - Better than Bombardiers, but the interior ceiling has that lower feeling, bright lights and really rather high seats don't help either!...Nor does the constantly annoying rattling of the plastic panels - finnished in a Mock Metal finnish (Examples include the window destination panels) rattling and buzzing all the way from Ashford to St Pancras :roll:

As for the seats / window arrangement...Although its partly down to TOC specification, I wouldnt go as far to say that the japanese build all trains with seats that have window views...The interior of the 395s arnt the greatest for seat window views...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Class_395_MSO_Interior.JPG

Better than some producers (Bombardier)...Bust still improvement needed!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jelltecks/4224962842/sizes/l/in/photostream/
And no i do not see pigs flying regarding there Country Durham plant. I would believe as it is a Japanese company they have planned this to every last detail. So when Hitachi say they are building it to attract further UK and European orders they mean it. After all the plant is close to sea docks where trains can easily be shipped over to continental Europe. Rather than being in Derby, surrounded by land and restricted by British Loading Guage.

True...But on the other hand...Havent we been through all of this before with a certain company called Thrall Europe?

I Think again, its a case of We Shall See with this one...Are they prepared to fully put there money where there mouth is? As Thrall said they were...then pulled the plug when the orders started drying up...Hopefully they will also aim for the European market, but its a tougher market compared to us with the likes of Bombardier (When they work), Siemens, Almost, CAF etc..

In 1997, rail manufacturing made a shock return to the Holgate Road site with the arrival of US rail giant Thrall Europa.

But it was short-lived and in June 2002, the company announced it was to close with the loss of 260 jobs

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/917865.yet_more_railway_jobs_axed_in_york/

http://www.lococarriage.org.uk/thrail.htm
 

the sniper

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I say the AT100 is ideal in a few sences.

I still don't see how you can call a train 'ideal' when you don't know it's specification, the factory it might be built in hasn't itself been built yet and the vast majority of the people who you believe will build it probably haven't even heard of Hitachi yet!

After all the plant is close to sea docks where trains can easily be shipped over to continental Europe. Rather than being in Derby, surrounded by land and restricted by British Loading Guage.

Aren't the main parts of the Hitachi HST replacement being made in Japan and then boated over here for final assembly? Being close to a decent dock would very much help that process...

We shall see...Im not totally convinced by the 395s interior.

I'm not sure that 159220 has ever been on a 395, Hitachi's only UK unit to date. Are they still literally rocking and rolling their way up HS1, or like the massively chastised Bombardier, did they take a good while to dial out the units issues?

It's funny really, how you don't hear so much about the faults of trains that don't have a Bombardier badge on them nowadays... :roll:
 

jon0844

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The 395s I've been on have certainly rocked about, even after the supposed modification.

The interior lighting looks like a carbon copy of the 365, and the brightness of the lighting could easily be adjusted at the design stages. It's clearly a modular design, so the customer (TOC or ROSCO) could specify all that sort of stuff.

Bombardier perhaps takes a lot of flak because they've built so many new trains recently, which have had silly little problems. For a totally brand new design, you can expect teething problems but when it's a tried and tested design that has been used for years in most cases, you can quite rightly (in my opinion) question other things, like the quality control processes.

What annoys/disappoints me is how the problems with the Bombardier trains seem so simple and avoidable. I mean, how can you put seals between two panels and allow it to hang down because a fitter didn't put it together right? Where's the sense in pride in the workforce?

I do believe that Japanese firms make sure to get that right - and you only need to look at the car production here to see how successful they are, and the impressive reliability figures.

British workers can easily be as good as foreign workers; but they need guidance and training and to get away from a society that seems to reward people for only doing 'just enough'. I'm surprised Bombardier doesn't try and do the same at Derby, but I still think they're looking to get out anyway.
 

fgwrich

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The 395s I've been on have certainly rocked about, even after the supposed modification.

The interior lighting looks like a carbon copy of the 365, and the brightness of the lighting could easily be adjusted at the design stages. It's clearly a modular design, so the customer (TOC or ROSCO) could specify all that sort of stuff.

Bombardier perhaps takes a lot of flak because they've built so many new trains recently, which have had silly little problems. For a totally brand new design, you can expect teething problems but when it's a tried and tested design that has been used for years in most cases, you can quite rightly (in my opinion) question other things, like the quality control processes.

What annoys/disappoints me is how the problems with the Bombardier trains seem so simple and avoidable. I mean, how can you put seals between two panels and allow it to hang down because a fitter didn't put it together right? Where's the sense in pride in the workforce?

I do believe that Japanese firms make sure to get that right - and you only need to look at the car production here to see how successful they are, and the impressive reliability figures.

British workers can easily be as good as foreign workers; but they need guidance and training and to get away from a society that seems to reward people for only doing 'just enough'. I'm surprised Bombardier doesn't try and do the same at Derby, but I still think they're looking to get out anyway.

It's interesting that you mention workers attitudes - as this afternoon, im now working on Lean Manufacturing & it's effectiveness & quality control processes - Something that seems to be not very well noted & associated within Bombardier :roll:

I still don't see how you can call a train 'ideal' when you don't know it's specification, the factory it might be built in hasn't itself been built yet and the vast majority of the people who you believe will build it probably haven't even heard of Hitachi yet!



Aren't the main parts of the Hitachi HST replacement being made in Japan and then boated over here for final assembly? Being close to a decent dock would very much help that process...



I'm not sure that 159220 has ever been on a 395, Hitachi's only UK unit to date. Are they still literally rocking and rolling their way up HS1, or like the massively chastised Bombardier, did they take a good while to dial out the units issues?

It's funny really, how you don't hear so much about the faults of trains that don't have a Bombardier badge on them nowadays... :roll:

Have to agree with you - the 395 i was on last month did still rock and roll up HS1 - Ride quality was average - though of course, nearly all of it was on HS1 so im not aware of what its like on more traditional track, but even on HS1 & through its tunnels, they do still roll :|
 

Wyvern

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My favouritest example is Operation Judgement on the 11th November 1940 where us British did a "mini" Pearl Harbour on the Italians at Taranto. The Japanese observed this, thought highly of our idea and then went away and created the Pearl Harbour attack.

THe reputation of the Japanese before the war and until the fifties was as copyists, taking western products copying them and selling them cheaper, much as the Chinese have done more recently.

The first sign of change was when the Honda and Yamaha motorcycles swept the western models off the market, not so much of their performance but because of the datedness of Western manufacturing methods. Then they reinvented the television and electronics manufacturing industry.

From this they became innovators in their own right and the Chinese will be following them.

As for Derby, Toyota cars have their factory there. Perhaps the Derby train makers could learn some lessons from them. I remember even back in the 'seventies, Derby Works complaining that the APT was too complicated to build. Perhaps the APT=P was cheapened down so BREL could handle it. <(
 

fgwrich

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Looks a lot more attractive than the hideous-looking Desiro City that they're building for the Thameslink
Hopefully this will be Class 345 (the type designated for Crossrail stock)

Have to admit - im the other way around - the Hitachi job dosent look too bad, apart from the strange door layout and that bulbous plastic looking front end - especially the one piece area stretching from around the sole, down and around the coupling and up to the other side - how easily would that become damaged?
 

RichW1

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Be great to have some more design thought like that of the 395's (which I think for a regional/commuter train look awesome!) Design really isn't given any thought on UK suburban/regional stock. Look at ELL, Desiro's, Even the new Glasgow commuters. The best in looks apart from the 395's are the older southestern 3rd rail trains because at least they had sleek sides and the boxed in undercarriage to make it look low towards the tracks. I do wonder what rolling stock companies are thinking with designs out now for the UK.
 

RichmondCommu

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Be great to have some more design thought like that of the 395's (which I think for a regional/commuter train look awesome!) Design really isn't given any thought on UK suburban/regional stock. Look at ELL, Desiro's, Even the new Glasgow commuters. The best in looks apart from the 395's are the older southestern 3rd rail trains because at least they had sleek sides and the boxed in undercarriage to make it look low towards the tracks. I do wonder what rolling stock companies are thinking with designs out now for the UK.

In all fairness commuters couldn't give a monkey's what the train looks like, they are only interested in reliability and comfort (if you can get a seat). In my view making the thing "look good" is a waste of money.
 

the sniper

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Looks a lot more attractive than the hideous-looking Desiro City that they're building for the Thameslink

Personally I really like the look of the Desiro City, much better then the Aventra that Bombardier were pushing, which looked like a bland version of a Class 222!

Can't say that I'm particularly enamoured with the look of this 'AT-100', though it's such an early image of the design that you can't really tell what it'd look like when built. It basically looks more like a concept train than a finished product.
 
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