Historical UK White Elephant stations - How about Trent?

[70014IronDuke]

There is an ongoing thread about "White Elephant" stations which, while not precluding historical examples, has in practice focused on 'new' stations established in more recent years.

So, rather than mix that thread up even more, I thought to start another, focusing more on 'historical' stations - let's say in existence pre-1970 and long before, and kick off with the example that immediately jumps to my mind, viz Trent.

Yes, I know it was designed for express services running via the Erewash Valley to serve both Nottingham and Derby by changing trains, but why? That is to say, for anyone approaching from the south, the same service could have been provided by changing at Leicester, and for anyone coming from the north, by changing at Sheffield or - even better if you stopped the express there - Chesterfield.

True, this would have involved longer distances covered by the connecting services, but at least these trains would/could also have served eg Loughboro', Sawley Jcn (today's Long Eaton), Belper and Erewash Valley stations, and saved both building the station and stopping expresses at Trent, which - as best as I'm aware - didn't serve any of the local population at all.

Of course, had it remained open, it might have been spruced up and renamed Trent Parkway, and - ironically - saved the modern 'white elephant' of EMP being built 5-6 miles to the south. But Parkway stations were a thing of the future in 1966.

Anyway, that's my starter for 10. Thoughts?

 

[Taunton]

Trent was considerably used by staff going to the otherwise remote Toton loco depot and major yard. There was a BR bus linking the two.

On the onetime GWR, once they started building simple unstaffed Halts, a number were sited more sensibly for a settlement than the original station named after it. An example was Morebath, on the old Taunton to Barnstaple line, not only nowhere near the village but the line then passed adjacent to this. Morebath Junction Halt was thus later created to serve it. The original station, still open to the end, appeared to have been sited at a convenient halfway point between Venn Cross and Dulverton stations, without regard to actual passenger convenience.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the "connecting services" at Trent were mostly locals between Nottingham and Derby. Perhaps someone with knowledge of historic timetables could comment on this.

If it's correct, then they would have had to run to serve that purpose, even if Trent station didn't exist. And connecting services from Leicester or Chesterfield to Derby or Nottingham would have most likely been slow all-stations trains over much longer distances than that from Trent, resulting in much poorer journeys for those making the connections.

In the modern context, even though East Midlands Parkways is actually less than two miles from Trent, that distance includes the crossing of the Trent itself. EM Parkway has access off the main A453 a short distance from the convergence of the M1, A50 and A6, and is close to East Midlands Airport although bus connections have come and gone over the years. Road access to a hypothetical parkway on the Trent station site would have been through built-up areas from M1 junction 25, or via a totally new and costly road connection bypassing Long Eaton. Those built-up areas themselves are served by Long Eaton station (formerly Sawley Junction), with an hourly London service in recent years. So although EM Parkway hasn't been particularly successful, a parkway at Trent would have been far less so.

 

[Rescars]

It depends rather on how we are defining a "white elephant", but if we are talking about lavish facilities for a sparse service then Christ's Hospital may be worthy of a mention.

 

[30907]

It depends rather on how we are defining a "white elephant", but if we are talking about lavish facilities for a sparse service then Christ's Hospital may be worthy of a mention.

Horsted Keynes was (and is) laid out in similarly grand manner - I wonder which was the busier? Christ's Hospital was probably good PR though.

 

[Bevan Price]

Being over 60 years ago, I forget which way round I was doing my journey, but I think I did Leicester to Trent (train continuing to Nottingham), and connecting at Trent to Derby (on a Lincoln/Nottingham to Derby stopping service).

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Allhallows on Sea was a good one - opened 1932 closed 1961 - built for a proposed resort / residential development on the muddy Thames that never happened. Or the ruinously expensive SER line into Chatham, to be rendered immediately redundant with the merger with the LCDR.

 

[Rescars]

Considering termini, Bexhill West must be worthy of a mention too.

Are junction stations built primarily for the railways' convenience white elephants? If so, Riccarton Junction must be in with a shout.

 

[Mr. SW]

Singleton, between Midhurst and Chichester. Four platforms and a turntable, all for a few race meets.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There is an ongoing thread about "White Elephant" stations which, while not precluding historical examples, has in practice focused on 'new' stations established in more recent years.

So, rather than mix that thread up even more, I thought to start another, focusing more on 'historical' stations - let's say in existence pre-1970 and long before, and kick off with the example that immediately jumps to my mind, viz Trent.

Yes, I know it was designed for express services running via the Erewash Valley to serve both Nottingham and Derby by changing trains, but why? That is to say, for anyone approaching from the south, the same service could have been provided by changing at Leicester, and for anyone coming from the north, by changing at Sheffield or - even better if you stopped the express there - Chesterfield.

True, this would have involved longer distances covered by the connecting services, but at least these trains would/could also have served eg Loughboro', Sawley Jcn (today's Long Eaton), Belper and Erewash Valley stations, and saved both building the station and stopping expresses at Trent, which - as best as I'm aware - didn't serve any of the local population at all.

Of course, had it remained open, it might have been spruced up and renamed Trent Parkway, and - ironically - saved the modern 'white elephant' of EMP being built 5-6 miles to the south. But Parkway stations were a thing of the future in 1966.

Anyway, that's my starter for 10. Thoughts?

As it happened I changed at Trent on many of the journeys I made in the last year or so before its closure. The services from St Pancras to both Nottingham and Derby were sparse but there was a, by comparison, more frequent service connecting Nottingham, Trent and Derby which you haven't mentioned. This meant that the quicker way to Derby at some times of the day was to catch a Nottingham and change at Trent rather than wait for the next Derby train, and vice versa. Also, there were 6 stations between Leicester and Trent (although Loughborough was the only one of them served by expresses) for which the option of changing at Leicester obviously didn't apply. Have a look at the timetable of those days, the Midland Main Line had a very thin service.

It was also the case that there were expresses which did not call at either Derby or Nottingham but only Trent - for example the Bradford which left St Pancras about mid-day - but passengers for both destinations would each have a similar service by changing there.

 

[etr221]

Singleton, between Midhurst and Chichester. Four platforms and a turntable, all for a few race meets.

Race meets used to be big business for the railway.

 

[The exile]

It depends rather on how we are defining a "white elephant", but if we are talking about lavish facilities for a sparse service then Christ's Hospital may be worthy of a mention.

Indeed - it having been built in the expectation that more development would take place than just the school. It did - but not for a century and even now not to the scale imagined then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2024 ==

Are junction stations built primarily for the railways' convenience white elephants? If so, Riccarton Junction must be in with a shout.

Would suggest they fall outside the category as they are there for a purpose. The thing about a white elephant is that it is a) of no practical use and b) expensive to keep.

 

[edwin_m]

Would suggest they fall outside the category as they are there for a purpose. The thing about a white elephant is that it is a) of no practical use and b) expensive to keep.

I imagine the number of passengers changing trains at Riccarton would have been very few, and those starting/finishing journeys even fewer unless they were going to/from the railway facilities or workers' cottages which were only really necessary because there was a junction there. So I'd argue the station itself was probably a white elephant, they could have had a junction with a signal box and little else, and run the branch trains along the main line to the first place that had a enough (ish) population to justify a station.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

As mentioned in the original thread - Hainault loop, especially between Woodford and Hainault.

 

[Farigiraf]

Kind of an obvious one - Berney Arms, and the Reedham - Great Yarmouth branch. Why did it exist in the first place, and why wasn't it cut?

 

[The exile]

I imagine the number of passengers changing trains at Riccarton would have been very few, and those starting/finishing journeys even fewer unless they were going to/from the railway facilities or workers' cottages which were only really necessary because there was a junction there. So I'd argue the station itself was probably a white elephant, they could have had a junction with a signal

Kind of an obvious one - Berney Arms, and the Reedham - Great Yarmouth branch. Why did it exist in the first place, and why wasn't it cut?

This and others that were built as a sop to landowners are probably the best candidates. Clever wording in whatever agreement led to the line being built, together with the realisation that once unstaffed, keeping a station open doesn’t cost much until it falls down…
Much of today’s collection of white elephants will consist of protected (and expensive to maintain) station buildings at places where otherwise they’d make do with a bus shelter. Wemyss Bay, anyone?

 

[Rescars]

I imagine the number of passengers changing trains at Riccarton would have been very few, and those starting/finishing journeys even fewer unless they were going to/from the railway facilities or workers' cottages which were only really necessary because there was a junction there. So I'd argue the station itself was probably a white elephant, they could have had a junction with a signal box and little else, and run the branch trains along the main line to the first place that had a enough (ish) population to justify a station.

My thoughts too. Building a settlement without road access to support a station in the middle of nowhere does seem a back to front way of doing things. An interesting case study for a cost-benefit exercise perhaps! Or maybe white elephants are native to Kielder Forest?

 

[The exile]

I imagine the number of passengers changing trains at Riccarton would have been very few, and those starting/finishing journeys even fewer unless they were going to/from the railway facilities or workers' cottages which were only really necessary because there was a junction there. So I'd argue the station itself was probably a white elephant, they could have had a junction with a signal box and little else, and run the branch trains along the main line to the first place that had a enough (ish) population to justify a station.

When the lines were built they weren’t under the same ownership, so that wouldn’t have been as obvious a solution as it seems in retrospect. Add to that the fact that most people doing those sort of jobs wouldn’t have gone far even if there had been road access and a railway settlement growing up around a railway junction isn’t so strange. There would have been lots of them - (even Swindon!) - most flourished and outgrew their origins.

 

[gg1]

I imagine the number of passengers changing trains at Riccarton would have been very few, and those starting/finishing journeys even fewer unless they were going to/from the railway facilities or workers' cottages which were only really necessary because there was a junction there. So I'd argue the station itself was probably a white elephant, they could have had a junction with a signal box and little else, and run the branch trains along the main line to the first place that had a enough (ish) population to justify a station.

There would still need to be a staff halt of some description though, with facilities for parcels and limited freight handling for the village itself, so a more substantial enterprise than most staff halts. Maybe the additional costs in expanding this to a proper public station were considered to be minimal.

One interesting point about the station is the village pub, post office and shop were all located on the station platform.
https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/R/Riccarton_Junction/3.html#pagination

The article also mentions the population was as high as 150 at one point (somewhat higher than I expected), all of whom would be 100% reliable on the station as a link to the outside world.

 

[edwin_m]

There would still need to be a staff halt of some description though, with facilities for parcels and limited freight handling for the village itself, so a more substantial enterprise than most staff halts. Maybe the additional costs in expanding this to a proper public station were considered to be minimal.

One interesting point about the station is the village pub, post office and shop were all located on the station platform.
https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/R/Riccarton_Junction/3.html#pagination

But if there hadn't been a station and railway facilities the "village" wouldn't have been there! A simple junction with a signal box could have been managed by trains dropping off and picking up the signalman for each shift.

When the lines were built they weren’t under the same ownership, so that wouldn’t have been as obvious a solution as it seems in retrospect. Add to that the fact that most people doing those sort of jobs wouldn’t have gone far even if there had been road access and a railway settlement growing up around a railway junction isn’t so strange. There would have been lots of them - (even Swindon!) - most flourished and outgrew their origins.

Presumably whoever was there second had to bear the cost of building all the facilities, in the light of the minimal patronage it might have been more logical to come to some arrangement with the incumbent to share whatever they had reasonably nearby. But I imagine if they hadn't been incredibly over-optimistic about the patronage of their new line, they wouldn't have built it!

 

[Gloster]

Generally, the second company to arrive would foot the bill for all the extra railway facilities, even if the work was done by the original company in their own style, although the signal box at the junction might be an exception. Facilities like goods or loco depots might be built by the second company to its style on land it had acquired: the first company’s ownership would cease at the access points. There were plenty of opportunities for bones of contention, with company one trying to get company two to pay for something that it (one) was going to be the main gainer from, or two trying trying to avoid paying for something that one regarded as necessary, etc.

There were also cases where a complete rebuild was undertaken and the new station became a joint one.

 

[gg1]

But if there hadn't been a station and railway facilities the "village" wouldn't have been there! A simple junction with a signal box could have been managed by trains dropping off and picking up the signalman for each shift.

It wasn't just a junction & signal box though:

This was a large station, junction, locomotive shed, workshops, yard and railway owned village

https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/R/Riccarton_Junction/

Even if the station didn't exist, there would still be a need for a village/settlement to serve & accommodate the workforce.

 

[ThirteenArches]

Lead us not into Trent Station, but deliver us from Yeovil.

 

[Gloster]

There were plenty of similar locations to Riccarton Junction, even if most were not so remote. They made do with a couple of cottages for the signalmen and local grangers, possibly no more that four dwellings. A train would stop once a week to pick up wives so that they could go shopping in the local town and another would bring them back afterwards.

Remember that these lines were built when pay was pretty low and there was not a great deal to spend it on in country areas except the pub. If you were of the responsible character that the company wanted to work on their own, you could probably put up with the isolation (something that signalmen are used to). If you are happy with your house, your family, your allotment and possibly some simple hobby, it’s better than a town.

I think that Riccarton’s existence was primarily due to the need for snow-clearance at times, and to have somewhere to attach or detach and service locos used for assistance on the banks. It may also have been to reduce line occupancy on the steep climb from Hawick by reducing the number of Border Counties trains that needed to run through.

 

[Taunton]

Newbury

Race meets used to be big business for the railway.

Newbury Racecourse was built by the (old) GWR for race traffic alone, and only in quite recent times did it open up for general traffic instead of just for race days. It did nevertheless have more provision than the mainstream Newbury station - it had four through platforms where the latter only had two.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Kind of an obvious one - Berney Arms,

Been there since May 1844 and the station was built as a condition of sale by the then landowner when the line was first built. Not much of a station there, does it cost all that much to continue to keep it (Berney Arms) open?

 

[Magdalia]

Kind of an obvious one - Berney Arms, and the Reedham - Great Yarmouth branch. Why did it exist in the first place, and why wasn't it cut?

Have you ever been there?

I suggest that you read this:

Berney Arms: The hamlet that has all but disappeared

What does the future hold for an isolated hamlet surrounded by marshland in Norfolk?

www.bbc.co.uk

The Norfolk hamlet of Berney Arms was once home to a small but thriving community of 11 families. Today, it lies empty but for an unused pub, an RSPB centre, a closed marsh mill and a railway station. What was it like to live there and what does its future hold?

In particular:

The community's primary links with the outside world centred on the railway station.

From the trains that stopped at Berney Arms came the post, the newspapers and - twice a week - the groceries.

Few communities relied on their railway station more than Berney Arms, for the people who lived there it was the complete opposite of a white elephant.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2024 ==

As mentioned in the original thread - Hainault loop, especially between Woodford and Hainault.

Chigwell and Hainault both have populations of more than 10k.

The line was built by the Great Eastern Railway and only became part of the Central Line after World War 2 when the then London County Council built huge amounts of housing at Hainault.

The station at Hainault might possibly count, it was closed between 1908 and 1930.

 

[Rescars]

Newbury

Newbury Racecourse was built by the (old) GWR for race traffic alone, and only in quite recent times did it open up for general traffic instead of just for race days. It did nevertheless have more provision than the mainstream Newbury station - it had four through platforms where the latter only had two.

Gatwick originally opened for periodic race traffic only. Seems unimaginable now!

 

[edwin_m]

It wasn't just a junction & signal box though:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/R/Riccarton_Junction/

Even if the station didn't exist, there would still be a need for a village/settlement to serve & accommodate the workforce.

All these facilities might have been built somewhere else instead, where they could be combined with similar existing facilities and there was somewhere for the workforce to live - and a station already!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Gatwick originally opened for periodic race traffic only. Seems unimaginable now!

Were any race meetings ever held at Gatwick Racecourse after maybe April 1948 (i.e. before the station which had acquired that name was completely rebuilt/further renamed as Gatwick Airport in May 1958)?