Historical Pay Grades - Drivers / Firemen / Guards

[Roger1973]

Just out of curiosity - and referring to the era when BR was still BR (and before)

One or two things I've read about signalmen refer to different 'classes' of signal box, and the implication that signalmen would (when vacancies came up, and if they were so inclined and were passed as competent) move up through the classes of signal box, and this would be reflected by a higher pay rate.

How did this work for other railway jobs?

Presumably a porter was a porter whether they were at a major or minor station, but I would have thought that (for example) the station-master at Paddington would have been on a higher pay grade than the station master at a rural station - did station jobs have a class as well?

And how did it work for (what would now be called) train crew, as in drivers, firemen, guards? I understand there was a system of 'links' with a 'top link' doing wholly or mostly longer distance express trains, but were there separate pay grades for the respective links, or was it more of a job satisfaction / prestige thing?

I've seen references to an element of pay being mileage related, which would have been higher for longer distance express services - would this have made a significant difference in pay compared to (for example) working in a link that mostly did suburban or branch line trains?

 

[whoosh]

Basic pay for Drivers was the same for all of them, but the 'links' (rotas) were constructed to give progressively more mileage.
I'll give you the figures for 1990, but the principle applied back in steam days too, albeit likely to start at a lower mileage as 125mph HSTs weren't around then, with their ability to cover just over 2 miles a minute.

In 1990 mileage payments started at 200 miles, and the mileage payment for any duty between 200 and 214 miles was 1h23 worth of pay. 215 - 229 miles paid 1h53. 230 to 244 miles paid 2h23, and so on - every block of 15 more miles paid an extra 30 minutes worth of pay. A Kings Cross to Doncaster and back would've paid an extra 5h23.

Once Driver Only Operation came in, there was a daily payment for that. In 1990 this was £7.88.
The basic hourly rate of pay for reference was £4.73.
Other factors that enhanced the pay, were unsocial hours between 2100 and 0600, and all day Saturdays, as well as an 'Irregular and Unsocial hours Payment' and 'Variable Roster Payment'. I think these worked on percentages. The Variable Roster Payment I think came in after 1982 for train staff, as their fixed 8 hour shifts had been done away with and replaced with shifts between 7 and 9 hours.
Sundays were all overtime at an enhanced rate.


Some high mileage suburban duties were placed in higher links, as they paid a reasonable amount in mileage and got DOO payment if in DOO areas.

I'm pretty sure that Firemen got mileage, and Guards I believe did at one point, but this was done away with a long time ago - maybe early BR days?




Signallers still have their unsocial hours enhancements and still have different grades for busier/more difficult signalboxes.

My very first railway job - I was a 'Clerical Officer'. At some point in the past, grade one and grade two had been merged, and so was written as CO1/2, but was frequently referred to as "See-oh half!" That just sounded worse to me! CO3 was a Supervisor.

Platform staff were Railman, then I think Leading Railman.

If you look at old railway pay grades (and uniforms), you'll see the influence of the army. Even the word 'duty' to describe a work day.

 

[Roger1973]

@whoosh

Thanks for that. I think one or two train operators still use the CO grades for jobs - South Western use them for ticket office (whatever the job title is this week) posts

 

[Gloster]

Again I can only speak about BR days. Most jobs had different grades for which the pay increased, though not by much, for each grade and each grade had a bit more responsibility.

The titles Railman, Leading Railman and Senior Railman were brought into use around 1969 to replace the rather more specific titles, such as Porter, Parcels Porter, etc. However, many were given a suffix indicating duties: my first job was Railman (Lampman*) and my second Leading Railman (Numbertaker). A large station might have a variety of grades and jobs, while a small one might just have a Leading or Senior Railman. Above the Senior Railman was the Chargeman and then the supervisory grades, which (I think)had several grades depending on the breadth of the responsibilities. Station Master also had several grades, each getting more money, depending on the number of staff they managed and the extent of their responsibilities.

Signalman in the 1980s had grades from A to F, with the boxes being graded on a complicated system based on the amount of traffic, amount of equipment, responsibilities particular to that box (regulation, reporting, etc.), etc. A signalman would have the grade of the box (+) he worked and the Relief Signalman would be in same step, but paid slightly more. I understand that when the system came in it only went up to E and that was to be for the new Panel Signal Boxes, but they later had to add F for the really massive Panels; supposedly the old Westbury North was the only Class E with a lever frame due to its workload. If you applied for a box in a higher grade the choice would be made on seniority in the step, but you wouldn’t get the new seniority until you had been passed as fit to work the new box.

As think drivers were all on the same basic rate, whether you were at Liskeard shuttling up and down the Looe line or Old Oak and driving HSTs to Cardiff and Exeter. However, at many depots you moved up the links on seniority and the higher links got the best turns: best being a combination of signing on times and mileage. The lowest links got the bad hours with little mileage: at Paddington the guards links, on roughly the same system, had (I think) Link 3 as the best payer due to it mileage turns, but these were mostly late night and early morning signing on times. I am fairly sure that mileage was still in use for guards in 1987, although possibly only on the basis of one just one payment for anything over a certain distance, no stepping up for longer ones.

* - This was actually a repository for a lot of odd jobs and doing the lamps (all five of them) only took up a couple of hours a week.
+ - Unless he was a retained rate man made redundant from a higher grade box: he kept his seniority and pay if they couldn’t find him a new job in the old step.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I'm pretty sure that Firemen got mileage, and Guards I believe did at one point, but this was done away with a long time ago - maybe early BR days?

Guards were certainly still getting mileage in the late '70s, also based on 15 mile increments.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Guards were certainly still getting mileage in the late '70s, also based on 15 mile increments.

I think it finally disappeared in 1988.

 

[frankmoh]

Guards were certainly still getting mileage in the late '70s, also based on 15 mile increments.

My local line, the Hayes Line is 14.4 miles from Charing Cross. I wonder how many Southern Region guards got less pay running on it.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

My local line, the Hayes Line is 14.4 miles from Charing Cross. I wonder how many Southern Region guards got less pay running on it.

The 15 mile increments kicked in after 200 miles, so about 7 round trips on that line and then mileage payment for the 8th and subsequent round trips in the same shift!

 

[30907]

The 15 mile increments kicked in after 200 miles, so about 7 round trips on that line and then mileage payment for the 8th and subsequent round trips in the same shift!

...which would take you comfortably over a 12hr day so the overtime would be worth much more than the mileage

 

[45Fox]

I think it finally disappeared in 1988.

October, 3rd. 1988 with the implementation of the Traincrew Concept.
Mileage payments ended for Guards and Drivers Assistants [Secondmen] when they become Senior Conductors/Conductors/Trainmen (G) and Trainmen (D) respectively.
Interestingly though a Trainman (D) who was passed to drive, Relief Driver, still got paid mileage if driving and did the required miles (at Driver's rate of pay).