Historic Routeing Selby-Doncaster and LNER query

[mikeg]

I recently made a request to LNER as fare setter of the flow for the Selby to Doncaster 'any permitted' ticket, as to when the validity via Leeds was withdrawn. I do seem to remember via Leeds being permitted many years ago. Does anybody know when this was?

I say this as this was the response to my email:

Thank you for contacting London North Eastern Railway regarding Routing.



I have looked into your enquiry for you.



I'm unable to give you an answer to this enquiry, due to not having access to this information.



Pleas make sure to enquire about routing with Network rail. You can contact them on 03457 11 41 41, which is open 24/7. They shall be able to assist you.



Thanks again for contacting London North Eastern Railway.

Yours sincerely,

Stephan

Customer Services Team

London North Eastern Railway

And Network Rail? For a fares related query? Seriously? I have to say that's a new low for competence on the railway.

Here is my proposed response:

Dear Stephan,

Thankyou for taking the time to respond. It may have been removed by a previous franchisee of the InterCity East Coast route.

For your information, Network Rail have nothing to do with permitted routes, the National Routeing Guide (data.atoc.org/routeing-guide) being maintained by the Rail Delivery Group.

Is it possible for this to be escalated to somebody with more specialist knowledge?

Is there anything else I should put?

I originally asked when and why it was withdrawn, if Transport Focus was consulted and if so, what was their response, etc.

For those who think I'm just an 'NRG-watcher', this is of particular salience right now, given that the rail replacement buses haven't been put into the system and the journey planner TVMs at Selby won't sell tickets to Doncaster, or at least wouldn't as of a couple of days ago. Just how is one meant to travel to Doncaster when the ticket office is closed?

 

[TUC]

the journey planner TVMs at Selby won't sell tickets to Doncaster, or at least wouldn't as of a couple of days ago. Just how is one meant to travel to Doncaster when the ticket office is closed?

If the tickets are genuinely not available at the TVM then surely it is legitimate to buy them on the train (or online)?

 

[Haywain]

Wouldn't you be wanting the tickets routed 'not via Leeds or York' though, which are priced by Northern, and dependent on Northern providing the replacement bus times to the timetable database?

 

[mikeg]

Wouldn't you be wanting the tickets routed 'not via Leeds or York' though, which are priced by Northern, and dependent on Northern providing the replacement bus times to the timetable database?

Yes. Although travelling via Leeds would offer more frequency. I suspect a lot of people would just want a way to get to Doncaster

 

[Haywain]

Yes. Although travelling via Leeds would offer more frequency. I suspect a lot of people would just want a way to get to Doncaster

Right, my point being that the 'Any Permitted' fare is significantly higher and therefore wouldn't help much anyway. So contacting Northern would seem more appropriate.

 

[mikeg]

Yes. I'll contact both then. But northern don't operate the majority of the service. That'd be Hull Trains. And TPE operate the ticket office. Either way passengers should still have the ability to go via Leeds, especially given that they're paying a premium.

 

[Haywain]

Either way passengers should still have the ability to go via Leeds, especially given that they're paying a premium.

Off the top of my head, I don't believe they've had that option for a very long time, if ever. As things stand that does seem to make the 'Any Permitted' fares completely redundant.

 

[mikeg]

So what way did people go before hull trains was a thing?

 

[TUC]

So what way did people go before hull trains was a thing?

I was wondering something similar in terms of the direct Selby-Doncaster services. Did Northern's predecessors provide a direct service on a similar frequency prior to Hull Trains operating?

 

[IanXC]

Off the top of my head, I don't believe they've had that option for a very long time, if ever. As things stand that does seem to make the 'Any Permitted' fares completely redundant.

I seem to recall the "Not via Leeds or York" was once a "Direct", at which point the "Any Permitted" at least gave the benefit of allowing via Gilberdyke or Brough, but since "Not via Leeds or York" opens that option up the Any Permitted does seem rather redundant.

 

[mikeg]

Thanks @IanXC ... Let's not give them ideas though.