Highland Mainline: Capacity Increase?

[najaB]

If we were to disregard the current access rights of operators and recast the timetable from scratch I have seen a timetable constructed that makes it possible to run 15 services per day departing (and also arriving at) Inverness departing around 05:30 and finishing around 20:30 and conversely arriving 08:30 and 23:30 on the current infrastructure. Trains are at roughly hourly intervals BUT not to a standard hour.

Does this proposed timetable also include sufficient paths for freight?

 

[Altnabreac]

Does this proposed timetable also include sufficient paths for freight?

Almost certainly not if based on current infrastructure. The Ballinluig loop reinstatement was identified as essential to maintain current freight paths in the previous studies.

 

[najaB]

Almost certainly not if based on current infrastructure. The Ballinluig loop reinstatement was identified as essential to maintain current freight paths in the previous studies.

Every time I pass through this area I think it would be a perfect place for a dynamic loop. With a bridge over the Tay you could easily get three miles or more of double track as it's primarily flat, open farmland.

 

[Class 170101]

I believe it was early or late only

 

[najaB]

I believe it was early or late only

I wonder how that would work with the flows from Georgemas Junction to Sellafield - is there any scope for them to overnight in Inverness?

 

[clc]

It appears Abellio is considering funding some passing loops on the Highland Mainline over and above what Network Rail was planning. The NR work has a budget of £120m up to 2019 according to this:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...to-invest-millions-in-highland-rail-services/

 

[najaB]

It appears Abellio is considering funding some passing loops on the Highland Mainline over and above what Network Rail was planning. The NR work has a budget of £120m up to 2019 according to this:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...to-invest-millions-in-highland-rail-services/

Interesting. I wonder if they are proposing additional loops beyond NR's plan or if they are lengthening the proposed loops to allow higher passing speeds.

 

[backontrack]

I would also want to reopen Stanley Junction-Forfar with new build from there via Brechin to a point south of Stonehaven. This would allow a sub two hour Glasgow-Aberdeen journey time impossible via Dundee.

You'd miss out on a lot of local towns by continuing on the old route between Stanley and Forfar. I'd suggest rerouting via Alyth Town and Kirriemuir, with a new station positioned midway between Blairgowrie/Rattray and Coupar Angus to serve both. It's not too long before we're all told that it's a waste of money and that we're railway fantasists, however.

With regards to the HML, please don't touch the Culloden Viaduct either - another brilliant structure.

I don't really think much re-alignment is necessary - there's no point in being overly drastic. I'd advocate doubling between Daviot and Culloden Moor, and between Kingussie and Dalwhinnie as much as possible. Killiecrankie and Culloden do provide inconvenient bottlenecks, but there's not much that can be done without interfering with the structures themselves, so leave them be and only double on either side.
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Interesting. I wonder if they are proposing additional loops beyond NR's plan or if they are lengthening the proposed loops to allow higher passing speeds.

I hope so.
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Slightly off-topic I know, but back in the days of the Highland Railway, there were some bizarrely-scheduled trains on the line.

In 1915 the 9:30 Perth-Blair Atholl stopping service was extended to Inverness, with only one intermediate stop at Kingussie. The afternoon down train ran non-stop to Dalnaspidal, then calling at all stations to Inverness, running via Carrbridge. These services only omitted the same stop once, at Struan, until it was included subsequently on the afternoon service.

 

[oldman]

You'd miss out on a lot of local towns by continuing on the old route between Stanley and Forfar. I'd suggest rerouting via Alyth Town and Kirriemuir, with a new station positioned midway between Blairgowrie/Rattray and Coupar Angus to serve both. It's not too long before we're all told that it's a waste of money and that we're railway fantasists, however.

Consider yourself told .

I read the P and J article as a typical journalist's confusion between what Abellio are doing ('new' 'high-speed' trains) and what NR are doing on the infrastructure. If NR's £120m is enough for a reliable hourly timetable, I don't imagine Abellio wanting to spend more on it.

 

[Maxfly]

You'd miss out on a lot of local towns by continuing on the old route between Stanley and Forfar. I'd suggest rerouting via Alyth Town and Kirriemuir, with a new station positioned midway between Blairgowrie/Rattray and Coupar Angus to serve both. It's not too long before we're all told that it's a waste of money and that we're railway fantasists, however.

With regards to the HML, please don't touch the Culloden Viaduct either - another brilliant structure.

I don't really think much re-alignment is necessary - there's no point in being overly drastic. I'd advocate doubling between Daviot and Culloden Moor, and between Kingussie and Dalwhinnie as much as possible. Killiecrankie and Culloden do provide inconvenient bottlenecks, but there's not much that can be done without interfering with the structures themselves, so leave them be and only double on either side.
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Why would culloden be a bottleneck, line was originally double track Inverness to Daviot so track bed and structures (including culloden viaduct) are capable of redoubling without 'major' rebuilding as they previously had double track.

 

[backontrack]

Just a heads-up, you deleted the end of my quotes.

I really should have known that about Culloden Viaduct.

One thing to come out of both this and Virgin taking over East Coast is about the Highland Chieftain. Will it be switched to Abellio from Edinburgh or will it continue running from KGX operated by Virgin?

Or, will they consider moving it to Virgin West Coast operation instead, like the former Clansman up the west coast? I know they are different companies (Virgin has the minority share) but it could happen. Personally, I hope it doesn't.

 

[edwin_m]

One thing to come out of both this and Virgin taking over East Coast is about the Highland Chieftain. Will it be switched to Abellio from Edinburgh or will it continue running from KGX operated by Virgin?

Or, will they consider moving it to Virgin West Coast operation instead, like the former Clansman up the west coast? I know they are different companies (Virgin has the minority share) but it could happen. Personally, I hope it doesn't.

This is probably defined in the East Coast franchise spec somewhere, but I guess it will stay with East Coast for several reasons.

In particular East Coast through trains north of the Central Belt naturally serve Edinburgh, where they drop into a regular interval pattern southwards and no doubt a lot of passengers board and alight. A West Coast train going north of the Central Belt could not easily call at either Glasgow terminus so would have to justify its existence without serving largest market in western Scotland except by an inconvenient change of train at somewhere like Motherwell. A West Coast train could go into Edinburgh and reverse as the sleeper does, but would then be slower to London than the East Coast alternative.

Another reason is that East Coast is getting bi-mode SETs specifically for the through workings beyond Edinburgh. West Coast only has straight electric Pendolinos, and Voyagers which aren't really suited to the longest journeys and would have to run under the wires between Euston and Motherwell. While a SET could be cleared to run on the West Coast, the cost of doing so would be hard to justify on just a few trains per day and as the SET doesn't tilt it couldn't keep to Pendolino/Voyager timings so would be a pig to path as well as having a longer journey time. Finally, what would happen if Virgin lost the West Coast franchise?

 

[backontrack]

To answer my own question, no. Voyagers aren't cleared for the HML. However, with potential capacity increases on the line such as the ones mentioned in this thread, they will probably get cleared in the future.

If they were cleared already, Virgin might be considering that right now. The service could operate from Euston to Motherwell, then via Coatbridge and Cumbernauld to Falkirk. I still prefer the current setup (as I'm sure many people do as well) but it would make the journey to Inverness quicker (unless Edinburgh-Kinross-Perth were to reopen).

I do remember an Inverness-Carlisle-Manchester service being one of the more sensible routes in the New XC routes thread, although it seems more like a TPEx operation.
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Finally, what would happen if Virgin lost the West Coast franchise?

Probably a party

 

[Maxfly]

Just a heads-up, you deleted the end of my quotes.

I really should have known that about Culloden Viaduct.

One thing to come out of both this and Virgin taking over East Coast is about the Highland Chieftain. Will it be switched to Abellio from Edinburgh or will it continue running from KGX operated by Virgin?

Or, will they consider moving it to Virgin West Coast operation instead, like the former Clansman up the west coast? I know they are different companies (Virgin has the minority share) but it could happen. Personally, I hope it doesn't.

A bit chop happy, trying to remove some excess writing that wasn't needed and never kept end quote marks, sorry

 

[Class 170101]

By the time West Coast got The Clansman operating from London Euston again its more likely it could run under the wires as far as Dunblane rather than Coatbridge as it used to be.

 

[route:oxford]

By the time West Coast got The Clansman operating from London Euston again its more likely it could run under the wires as far as Dunblane rather than Coatbridge as it used to be.

The focus is too much on London. There is already one daytime train from Inverness down the East Coast to London, and soon there will be two daytime trains from Stirling to London.

I'd like to see a daily service from Perth/Inverness to Birmingham.

The only way to prove a business case is to operate a trial service. This could be undertaken via a reversal at Glasgow Queen Street routing via the Springburn Chord.

The only suitable stock would be a Voyager on loan from Virign. Sadly this would distress a considerable number of regulars on these forums.

Still, there may be a few people out there who'd appreciate a journey from Perth to Birmingham by train to be broadly similar timewise to doing the same journey by car.

 

[najaB]

This could be undertaken via a reversal at Glasgow Queen Street routing via the Springburn Chord.

Alternatively, reversal at Edinburgh.

The only suitable stock would be a Voyager on loan from Virign. Sadly this would distress a considerable number of regulars on these forums.

Or a HST set on loan from EC/EMT.

 

[dcsprior]

The focus is too much on London. There is already one daytime train from Inverness down the East Coast to London, and soon there will be two daytime trains from Stirling to London.

I'd like to see a daily service from Perth/Inverness to Birmingham.

The only way to prove a business case is to operate a trial service. This could be undertaken via a reversal at Glasgow Queen Street routing via the Springburn Chord.

The only suitable stock would be a Voyager on loan from Virign. Sadly this would distress a considerable number of regulars on these forums.

Still, there may be a few people out there who'd appreciate a journey from Perth to Birmingham by train to be broadly similar timewise to doing the same journey by car.

I get that there are destinations other than London which could be served from Scotland - however if the service you suggest existed, there would be those that would want it extending to London. Certainly if I lived somewhere between Glasgow and Stirling and was going to London, or anywhere north of Glasgow and was going to somewhere between Birmingham and London, I'd find it strange that this train only ran as far as Birmingham, for another one to then start there and head further south - I'd ask why the two services weren't combined.

Personally I'd say that the lack of any direct services from Scotland to Liverpool or anywhere in Wales, is a bigger gap in provision than the lack of direct services from places north of Glasgow / Edinburgh to cities on the WCML, given that the latter is mainly explained by the fact there aren't tracks between Glasgow Queen Street and Central.

 

[Class 170101]

The focus is too much on London. There is already one daytime train from Inverness down the East Coast to London, and soon there will be two daytime trains from Stirling to London.

I'd like to see a daily service from Perth/Inverness to Birmingham.

The only way to prove a business case is to operate a trial service. This could be undertaken via a reversal at Glasgow Queen Street routing via the Springburn Chord.

The only suitable stock would be a Voyager on loan from Virign. Sadly this would distress a considerable number of regulars on these forums.

Still, there may be a few people out there who'd appreciate a journey from Perth to Birmingham by train to be broadly similar timewise to doing the same journey by car.

It should be a Southwest to Inverness service but unfortunately Cross Country no longer run services between Birmingham and Scotland via the WCML. If they did the trains could be a pair of Voyagers as far as Motherwell splitting there. Half for Glasgow Central and half for Inverness running via Coatbridge, Cumbernauld and Greenhill Lower Jn.

 

[najaB]

Personally I'd say that the lack of any direct services from Scotland to Liverpool or anywhere in Wales, is a bigger gap in provision than the lack of direct services from places north of Glasgow / Edinburgh to cities on the WCML...

I'd agree with that. It is an pain travelling between Edinburgh and Cardiff.

Given that the latter is mainly explained by the fact there aren't tracks between Glasgow Queen Street and Central.

In the days of the Race to the North, what route was taken between the WCML and Stanley Junction?

 

[edwin_m]

I'd agree with that. It is an pain travelling between Edinburgh and Cardiff.In the days of the Race to the North, what route was taken between the WCML and Stanley Junction?

Pretty much the one used today I presume, except that there was a cutoff which avoided Motherwell.

Easiest way to try a train between Inverness and Birmingham would be to extend one of the London-Birmingham-Glasgow workings which is formed of a pair of Voyagers, possibly leaving one unit behind in Glasgow. This could then reverse out of Central and head north via Cumbernauld.

More capacity on the Highland line ought to mean a regular two-hourly service to Edinburgh. If this connects at Haymarket with the two-hourly London-Birmingham-Edinburgh then it would give a much easier journey than changing stations at Glasgow.

 

[me123]

Pretty much the one used today I presume, except that there was a cutoff which avoided Motherwell.

Easiest way to try a train between Inverness and Birmingham would be to extend one of the London-Birmingham-Glasgow workings which is formed of a pair of Voyagers, possibly leaving one unit behind in Glasgow. This could then reverse out of Central and head north via Cumbernauld.

Easier still I would argue would be to either extend the Cross Country services from Birmingham via the ECML, which would not require reversing anywhere, or to extend the WC services from Birmingham to Edinburgh by reversing at Edinburgh and continuing to Inverness. Running via GLC and Cumbernauld is unnecessarily complex and time-consuming.

Of course, if you could justify a North of Scotland-WCML service avoiding Glasgow and Edinburgh (perhaps joining onto another Voyager from Glasgow at Motherwell), then running a Voyager Inverness-Stirling-Cumbernauld-Motherwell would be an option, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.

 

[PaulLothian]

In the days of the Race to the North, what route was taken between the WCML and Stanley Junction?

Motherwell, Coatbridge Central, Cumbernauld, Larbert, Stirling, Perth, I believe.

 

[najaB]

Thanks to all who answered - so it seems that missing Glasgow wasn't an anathema in the past, no reason that it can't be done today.