Highland Chieftan

[Butts]

Is the above powered all the way up from London by a Diesel or is it Electric until the Electric Line expires - does it switch units somewhere along the line?

With regard to the Diesel Unit it it the most powerful on UK railways, and is it capable of cruising at over 100mph ?

Many thanks

 

[jopsuk]

the service uses one of East Coasts HSTs. Nothing special about the train itself. Diesel all the way.

 

[Butts]

the service uses one of East Coasts HSTs. Nothing special about the train itself. Diesel all the way.

Assuming a race was possible would the Diesel Unit beat the Electric Unit ?

 

[jopsuk]

No, the electrics would run out of power After the junction for the Bathgate line!

Dicounting that, pretty sure the Class 91+mark 4/Intercity 225/Electra electric trains can accelerate faster and have a theortetically faster top speed than the HST/Intercity 125/Class 43 + mark 3s/Class 254/call it what you want diesels, but both easily reach the maximum of 125mph on the ECML.

 

[Butts]

No, the electrics would run out of power After the junction for the Bathgate line!

Dicounting that, pretty sure the Class 91+mark 4/Intercity 225/Electra electric trains can accelerate faster and have a theortetically faster top speed than the HST/Intercity 125/Class 43 + mark 3s/Class 254/call it what you want diesels, but both easily reach the maximum of 125mph on the ECML.

Is there a diesel unit available anywhere that can out accelerate the Electric Model quoted and has a higher top speed?

 

[Yew]

I was udner the Impression that HST's could accelerate faster then IC225's? I imagine they coul definately go faster than a 67 hauled IC225.

 

[D365]

Would be a capacity waste if 2+9 HSTs/125s could outrun 225s... - 390 Pendos and 395s are definitely faster than both, being EMUs.

Are there any 9 coach diesels faster accelerating than an IC225? Possibly a 222 Meridian when they were formed that way.

 

[ainsworth74]

Are there any 9 coach diesels faster than an IC225? Possibly a 222 Meridian.

Are we talking about speed or acceleration?

 

[caliwag]

Bu++er all that...the HSTs are far more fun, and you can hang out the drop-lights of the doors for fresh air. Long live 'em. Damn it they're only 35 years old...plenty of life in them. Best trains ever.

 

[tbtc]

Are there any 9 coach diesels faster than an IC225? Possibly a 222 Meridian.

There are no nine coach Meridians. Many were built as nine coaches for the proposed London - Leeds service up the MML (the rest were four coaches when new, to replace 170s), but when this wasn't allowed, Midland Mainline reformed them as the current mix of five/ seven coaches (plus the four coach ex Hull Trains ones which later moved to EMT)

 

[yorkie]

I was udner the Impression that HST's could accelerate faster then IC225's?

How do you define 'accelerate faster'? They will reach Finsbury Park in less time, but will take longer to reach Peterborough. There is not a lot in it.

 

[dk1]

As said, not a lot in it. Also if a 225 is substituted with a 125 no loss of time is usually experienced. Only problem comes with the other way round if the service is booked beyond the wires.

 

[D365]

There's the answer, I suppose. I wouldn't want to send a 225 set beyond the wires unless I had a diesel on it!

 

[Butts]

Can I just clarify one of the facts I was trying to establish.

Are their any Diesel Units manufacured or previously made anywhere in the world that are capable of out accelerating and have a higher top speed than the Electric 225 Units used on the EC Main Line?

 

[captainbigun]

It's a bizarre question....but....

220/221/222, probably 180 too, would all accelarate quicker than a 91/Mk4 set (and an HST for that matter), but they have the same top speed.

Not sure about the ICE diesels in Germany, if they have a higher top speed then there's your answer.

 

[Butts]

It's a bizarre question....but....

220/221/222, probably 180 too, would all accelarate quicker than a 91/Mk4 set (and an HST for that matter), but they have the same top speed.

Not sure about the ICE diesels in Germany, if they have a higher top speed then there's your answer.

Are the Locomotives you quote capable of pulling the Chieftan if they were able to do so ?

With regard to the relative costs over a long distance is Diesel or Electric cheaper in "pure fuel costs" ? on the units that can pull the HC

 

[ainsworth74]

Are the Locomotives you quote capable of pulling the Chieftan if they were able to do so ?

Those aren't locomotives they're multiple units. As in each carriage is powered individually by an engine under the floor rather than a locomotive at one end.

 

[captainbigun]

Electric is cheaper than diesel full stop.

 

[Butts]

Those aren't locomotives they're multiple units. As in each carriage is powered individually by an engine under the floor rather than a locomotive at one end.

Sorry for the "faux ......"

As you can imagine I know more about the spirits served on East Coast than the Units used
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Electric is cheaper than diesel full stop.

Who pays the "electric bill" ? - is it Network Rail or the TOC's using the tracks, and passed on in the form of access charges.

 

[captainbigun]

The operator pays NR who pays whoever their supplier is.

 

[Butts]

The operator pays NR who pays whoever their supplier is.

Thanks - they must be one of the biggest customers the Electricity Company has.

 

[D365]

Electricity comes from the National Grid, just like your average house or business, but dedicated substations step the voltage down to 25kV. I don't know exactly who Network Rail pays, but I assume it's National Grid. We're going to need a lot more juice in the system (I'm hoping for nuclear, that's the best 'clean' technology our world currently has) with new electrification and bi-mode IEPs. I'm sure someone will care to elaborate if you want to know more.

By the way, I don't think the Highland Chieftain, or any other named East Coast service, are booked with special sets, aside from electric 91101 with a Flying Scotsman livery. All East Coast trains are made up with with nine examples of Mk3 (and a 43 HST diesel loco at either end) or Mk4 (91 electric loco at country end, DVT at London end) coaches.

If you want to know any more, just ask. I am The ECML Guru after all

 

[Butts]

Electricity comes from the National Grid, just like your average house or business, but dedicated substations step the voltage down to 25kV. I don't know exactly who Network Rail pays, but I assume it's National Grid. We're going to need a lot more juice in the system (I'm hoping for nuclear, that's the best 'clean' technology our world currently has) with new electrification and bi-mode IEPs. I'm sure someone will care to elaborate if you want to know more.

By the way, I don't think the Highland Chieftain, or any other named East Coast service, are booked with special sets, aside from electric 91101 with a Flying Scotsman livery. All East Coast trains are made up with with nine examples of Mk3 (and a 43 HST diesel loco at either end) or Mk4 (91 electric loco at country end, DVT at London end) coaches.

If you want to know any more, just ask. I am The ECML Guru after all

Thanks.

 

[ainsworth74]

aside from electric 91101 with a Flying Scotsman livery.

Well in theory, I'm not sure how successful they are at keeping it on the Flying Scotsman service!

 

[D365]

About as much as Heathrow Express keep 360205 -HEx livery- on Central-T4 shuttle duties?

 

[sprinterguy]

About as much as Heathrow Express keep 360205 -HEx livery- on Central-T4 shuttle duties?

If the answer to that is "rarely", then that would be accurate.