Highest temp train air con can cope with

[RollingStock19]

This 80x is pleasant enough temperature wise. 34 outside.

Edit: seems the normally pretty good 350s are struggling. 80x definitely the hero of the day!

Have you tried working on it?

 

[Mikey C]

From memory, the GWR 800 I got on at Paddington last Thursday wasn't especially cool, whereas the Southern 377/6 I got on at London Bridge on Saturday (so two days with similar temperatures outside) was much cooler.

 

[MrB]

Been on a handful of 375s during this and, luckily, all have been like ice boxes.

 

[supervc-10]

Having whined about the 159s- I stood from Tisbury to Salisbury (3-cars and full) and then got into one of the units which came straight from the depot. That unit was warm, but not unbearably warm. The train home from Waterloo to Salisbury was positively cold, which was lovely! I was very surprised, having had far too many trips on the 159s and ending up feeling like I've been in a sauna.

 

[py_megapixel]

Have you tried working on it?

Not sure why it would be any different, after all the same AC system is cooling everybody. Don't forget that what constitutes a comfortable temperature is a matter of opinion.

 

[Jamesrob637]

You might say that your Skoda's AC is superb!
(sorry)
I'd add as well that the system in my parent's Skoda Enyaq is even better than when they had a Superb- because with electric cars you can normally start the AC with an app before you get to the car.

I am heading up to London from Salisbury tomorrow- I'm not looking forward to it. It's going to be toasty on the 159. I might go for the 'stopper' which only goes as far as Basingstoke, and get on a Desiro from there! Definitely going to take a bottle of ice water with me from home!

I've not had any issues with most post-privatisation stock, I've never had an issue with the Pendos when I was living up in Manchester. The old 159s though....

Pendolino generally have good air-con, both here and in Europe.

 

[penguin8967]

166s are known for their unreliable original air con system - you're lucky to have a unit with it working in 1 carriage, let alone 3. On Monday 166203 wasn't coping well and it was only working in one coach, albeit very poorly.

In contrast, 165s were retrofitted with a different air cooling system and have some of the best of any train I've been on - some of the nicest units to be on in summer!

 

[Clarence Yard]

The class 166 units are on their second system (the original was made by Stones, Iberica), the second one being no better than the first and, it is alleged, with a bigger power draw. SPM have been getting some joy in getting it to work better but it’s not a perfect system, by any measure. Unfortunately the DfT (after some lobbying by Angel, who told them it only needed modifying) didn’t want it replaced by air-cooling when the DA3 bid requirements were set, despite FG having it on their list of possible mods.

Opportunity well and truly missed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The class 166 units are on their second system (the original was made by Stones, Iberica), the second one being no better than the first and, it is alleged, with a bigger power draw. SPM have been getting some joy in getting it to work better but it’s not a perfect system, by any measure. Unfortunately the DfT (after some lobbying by Angel, who told them it only needed modifying) didn’t want it replaced by air-cooling when the DA3 bid requirements were set, despite FG having it on their list of possible mods.

Opportunity well and truly missed.

Might as well just unlock the windows and be done with it.

Meanwhile the Chiltern system is excellent.

 

[Recessio]

Might as well just unlock the windows and be done with it.

Meanwhile the Chiltern system is excellent.

Part of the problem is leaky or even unsealed windows that cause the AC to run continuously, helping wear it out quicker.

 

[Flying Snail]

Part of the problem is leaky or even unsealed windows that cause the AC to run continuously, helping wear it out quicker.

This is an oft quoted fallacy. AC does not wear out through use, if anything long periods of non-use are significantly worse, nor does it break because the cold air gets vented out a window.

It is true that having windows open on a hot day will negate the benefit of a working system but it is not a cause of failed AC, it is however a very handy excuse to push the blame for faulty AC onto passengers or traincrew.

 

[TheEdge]

The 745/755s have made a wonderful show of themselves. Keeping on top of the high temperatures, I was travelling on Tuesday and the heat when I got off mid afternoon was oppressive compared to the lovely comfortable heat inside.

A friend was prepping one that registered 45 inside having been shut down but it got into service with the a/c working hard to get it under control. Back in the days of 170s they'd have never stood a chance of getting that under control.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 745/755s have made a wonderful show of themselves. Keeping on top of the high temperatures, I was travelling on Tuesday and the heat when I got off mid afternoon was oppressive compared to the lovely comfortable heat inside.

A friend was prepping one that registered 45 inside having been shut down but it got into service with the a/c working hard to get it under control. Back in the days of 170s they'd have never stood a chance of getting that under control.

That was what my 80x from Bodmin felt like. Getting off at Paddington it was like getting off a plane in South East Asia. Someone here said 80x can only do 10 degrees below outside, and I'm pretty sure it was doing far better than that.

I'd normally put 350s as "best of class" but they were having trouble, though not helped by a muppet sitting near me who kept opening the door to let a breeze in. He finally packed it in when I pointed out that he was just letting hot air in and that the aircon would work if he just gave it 2 minutes! I was surprised as when I got on it felt like a fridge.

I wonder if we should help it along a bit by painting train roofs white like London bus roofs are for that exact reason? The usual dark grey must act like a heat absorber.

 

[Bikeman78]

I'd normally put 350s as "best of class" but they were having trouble, though not helped by a muppet sitting near me who kept opening the door to let a breeze in.

It's amazing how many people cannot understand this concept. Same with opening the windows at home "to let in the fresh air." If it's 23 degrees inside and 30 degrees outside, that isn't going to end well.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd normally put 350s as "best of class" but they were having trouble, though not helped by a muppet sitting near me who kept opening the door to let a breeze in. He finally packed it in when I pointed out that he was just letting hot air in and that the aircon would work if he just gave it 2 minutes! I was surprised as when I got on it felt like a fridge.

I have found the 350's hit and miss recently. Don't know if it is the system or the settings or the /2 versions getting run down. The best train we had for air con was the Southern 377's. Like a fridge. Wonderful.

 

[TEW]

I have found the 350's hit and miss recently. Don't know if it is the system or the settings or the /2 versions getting run down. The best train we had for air con was the Southern 377's. Like a fridge. Wonderful.

The SWR Desiros are similar, definitely not as reliable as it used to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have found the 350's hit and miss recently. Don't know if it is the system or the settings or the /2 versions getting run down. The best train we had for air con was the Southern 377's. Like a fridge. Wonderful.

The downside of the old Adtranz/Bombardier products I found was that the distribution of cold air around the vehicle was a bit bitty, i.e. if you sat under or close to the two aircon units (above the vestibules if I recall) it'd be nice and cool, but in the middle of the middle section it could get quite warm. The newest Electrostars seemed not to suffer that too badly, though.

I remember 158s being like a fridge when new...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2022 ==

It's amazing how many people cannot understand this concept. Same with opening the windows at home "to let in the fresh air." If it's 23 degrees inside and 30 degrees outside, that isn't going to end well.

To be fair I did sit with all the windows open on Tuesday, but that's because I find moving air at 38 (or whatever it was) easier to cope with than still air at 30 - it was very windy here on Tuesday. Maybe I should buy a fan this winter in preparation!

With regard to train aircon that's why I (unlike many others) like the windowsill vents on Mk5s - I like the air to be moving, not still. Pendolinos are also good for this with the outlets being on the luggage rack. I'd love to see personal outlets on trains like aircraft and coaches - only place I've seen that is some Networkers.

 

[JohnB27]

On a recent trip with LNR, the guard on our pair of 350s went through the train locking open all the inter-connecting doors between the carriages. He said this was to improve airflow. No idea if this is a new policy or just the guard taking it upon himself as I've not seen this practice before. I wasn't sure to be honest whether it made things better or worse, as our coach was quite cool before he opened the doors and then it seemed to get warmer!

 

[Avidfan]

On a recent trip with LNR, the guard on our pair of 350s went through the train locking open all the inter-connecting doors between the carriages. He said this was to improve airflow. No idea if this is a new policy or just the guard taking it upon himself as I've not seen this practice before. I wasn't sure to be honest whether it made things better or worse, as our coach was quite cool before he opened the doors and then it seemed to get warmer!

Makes you wonder how this squares with the spread of smoke/flames in the event of a fire.......

 

[Bletchleyite]

Makes you wonder how this squares with the spread of smoke/flames in the event of a fire.......

The risk of fire in a modern EMU is incredibly, incredlbly low, to be fair.

 

[Avidfan]

As regards HVAC on rail vehicles, it's not usual practice to design the system to maintain the same interior temperature set point regardless of outside temperature, as the HVAC equipment would be huge and be inefficient at ambient temperatures that are close to the interior set point say in spring and autumn. It's usual for the interior set point to track upwards once the ambient reaches a certain temperature and will maintain the interior X degC below ambient. This makes sense when you consider that on hot days people wear less or thinner clothing, so would not expect or want to sit in a cold draft that is trying to maintain 20 degC whilst it's 40 outside

 

[XAM2175]

This makes sense when you consider that on hot days people wear less or thinner clothing, so would not expect or want to sit in a cold draft that is trying to maintain 20 degC whilst it's 40 outside

It's a shame they can't apply this philosophy in winter too!

 

[Bikeman78]

Makes you wonder how this squares with the spread of smoke/flames in the event of a fire.......

Many modern EMUs don't have any doors between vehicles at all. Also not uncommon to find doors missing on older EMUs or 150s for that matter. I cannot think of any serious train fire in my lifetime, other than those resulting from major collisions involving diesel trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2022 ==

As regards HVAC on rail vehicles, it's not usual practice to design the system to maintain the same interior temperature set point regardless of outside temperature, as the HVAC equipment would be huge and be inefficient at ambient temperatures that are close to the interior set point say in spring and autumn. It's usual for the interior set point to track upwards once the ambient reaches a certain temperature and will maintain the interior X degC below ambient. This makes sense when you consider that on hot days people wear less or thinner clothing, so would not expect or want to sit in a cold draft that is trying to maintain 20 degC whilst it's 40 outside

Agreed. 25 degrees will feel very pleasant compared with 40 degrees outside. Recently I found a 345 far too cold. I was glad to get off after 10 minutes.

 

[Avidfan]

Many modern EMUs don't have any doors between vehicles at all. Also not uncommon to find doors missing on older EMUs or 150s for that matter. I cannot think of any serious train fire in my lifetime, other than those resulting from major collisions involving diesel trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2022 ==


Agreed. 25 degrees will feel very pleasant compared with 40 degrees outside. Recently I found a 345 far too cold. I was glad to get off after 10 minutes.

You're right that newer trains and tube stock have open gangways. These trains have been designed to meet latest requirements for spread of flame and products of combustion. Further, in the event of fire / smoke their HVAC systems are designed to operate in a way which minimises the spread. Gangway doors on older stock do this, hence the intumescent seals on the door leaves and around the door aperture. Hinged gangway doors on even older stock have spring loaded bomber hinges which should shut the door to provide a similar, but less well designed solution, which can often be found to not be working due to vandalism or lack of maintenance.
Lack of fires on trains is due to it being an integral and mandated requirement of the design phase, including active additional mitigations should one actually occur.

 

[Mikey C]

On a Southern 377 (a 377/6 I think) today, I was surprised that each carriage of the 4 car unit had a window open, especially as inside the carriage I was in (well away from the open window) the temperature felt nice and cool, so I couldn't see why they would need to open the windows. It's not as if it was especially hot today.

 

[43096]

On a Southern 377 (a 377/6 I think) today, I was surprised that each carriage of the 4 car unit had a window open, especially as inside the carriage I was in (well away from the open window) the temperature felt nice and cool, so I couldn't see why they would need to open the windows. It's not as if it was especially hot today.

If it was a 377/6 it would have been a 5 car unit.

 

[michael74]

The best air conditioning is opening a window. Tech is fantastic until it breaks, which in the UK it often does.

I assume you don't have to work a 150 in the heat, cause if the heat doesn't get to you the absolute racket will....