Highest frequency of service

[Waddon]

I read that Crossrail could have up to 24 trains per hour capacity (I'm assuming this is in each direction, i.e. one train each way every 2.5mins) . Is there any other lines in the UK with a higher frequency of service?

 

[miikey]

Rush hour going into London on the Great Eastern is very frequent. I'm based at Romford and we get a train past every 3 or 4 mins for about an hour on the Mains. Crossrail will use this route too but on the Electrics (Slows). So it will be a train every 3ish mins on both lines. Mad!

 

[12CSVT]

London Underground's District / Circle Line from Gloucester Road - Tower Hill has trains every 2.5 min even off peak
ie every 10 min Wimbledon - Upminster
every 10 min Richmond - Upminster
every 10 min Ealing Broadway - Tower Hill
every 10 min Circle Line

 

[Lampshade]

Clapham Junction - Waterloo surely has it?

 

[Ivo]

Clapham Junction - Waterloo surely has it?

There are approximately 40 departures each hour off-peak from Waterloo with eight lines in use. Seems a safe bet!

The line immediately south of Blackfriars, i.e. between the bridge and the Elephant & Castle junction, will have 20-24 per hour courtesy of the Thameslink Programme upon completion. (Which could be a while.)

 

[Bedpan]

Clapham Junction - Waterloo surely has it?

Clapham Junction to Pouparts Junction as that section has traffic from Victoria as well.

 

[At_traction]

I read that Crossrail could have up to 24 trains per hour capacity (I'm assuming this is in each direction, i.e. one train each way every 2.5mins) . Is there any other lines in the UK with a higher frequency of service?

There are approximately 40 departures each hour off-peak from Waterloo with eight lines in use. Seems a safe bet!

I guess here we'd have to first determine what a "line" is. Is it a set of tracks, no matter how many that is, in principal, earmarked for a certain operator or simply lines/tracks available from a station (thus the eight tracks from WAT). Or, like I'd rather see it, a "line" is a set of double track for bidirectional traffic like at:

London Underground's District / Circle Line from Gloucester Road - Tower Hill has trains every 2.5 min even off peak

or two "lines" for two twin tracks at:

Rush hour going into London on the Great Eastern is very frequent. I'm based at Romford and we get a train past every 3 or 4 mins for about an hour on the Mains. Crossrail will use this route too but on the Electrics (Slows). So it will be a train every 3ish mins on both lines. Mad!

In that case, per track, the LU candidate wins hands down. The verdict cannot be appealed.

This must be also a question of safety measures; at the LU, it is possible for drivers to actually see the preceding train at times and they often have to be "feathered" to a station by a set of signals that will reduce their speed until the preceding train has left the station. Surely, with that sort of congestion at the ole' Metropolitan District's twin track, without surefire safety in place (and also when incorporating the possibility of disruption to an even flow of trains) frequencies cannot be much improved if considerable train speeds are to be maintained...?

 

[jopsuk]

Couple of the LU lines can hit 30tph in the peaks can't they? Becomes limited by station dwell time.

 

[Mojo]

Couple of the LU lines can hit 30tph in the peaks can't they? Becomes limited by station dwell time.

Picking what I have rather crudely assumed to be the busiest time of the day (8am-9am), for the Tube.

The busiest single line (as in one track going one way) is the Westbound Central which has 29 trains per hour.

One line - Euston to Camden Town would beat that, but that would be cheating as it includes the West End and the City branches!

Kings Cross to Euston on the Victoria and Northern City branch (Northbound Northern and Southbound Victoria) is 49 trains per hour.

So not as much as Clapham Junction into Waterloo.

 

[At_traction]

So not as much as Clapham Junction into Waterloo.

Ehh? Apples and oranges here. It's rather safe to assume that CLJ, being the station with most passengers through in a day (at least in Europe) is able to do that with its SIX double tracks through. Two LU lines with two double tracks is rather naturally due to carry less trains in an hour...

 

[Mojo]

Ehh? Apples and oranges here. It's rather safe to assume that CLJ, being the station with most passengers through in a day (at least in Europe) is able to do that with its SIX double tracks through. Two LU lines with two double tracks is rather naturally due to carry less trains in an hour...

And who said I wasn't doing that? I think you need to re-read. The question is highest frequency of service. Someone mentioned 40 trains per 30 minutes Clapham - Waterloo. I have given some figures that are substantially lower (because a commentator above asked by what criteria we were judging a line upon), and thus need to justify why I've done it.

I could be the type of person who ignores what everyone else above has posted, and then posting something the same as, or further away from the answer to the question posed in the OP. But I'd rather not do so without being able to justify it.

 

[At_traction]

And who said I wasn't doing that? I think you need to re-read. The question is highest frequency of service. Someone mentioned 40 trains per 30 minutes Clapham - Waterloo. I have given some figures that are substantially lower (because a commentator above asked by what criteria we were judging a line upon), and thus need to justify why I've done it.

I can see that, but certainly we're still comparing different capacities in terms of tracks available, with the at most four tracks for the LU and eight for the WAT services. But if the total bulk of traffic between stations was what was called for, then the discussion is on track.

 

[tbtc]

I know there are a dozen ways to measure this, but for me I'd only count services which stopped at both stations

 

[Ivo]

If you go in terms of per track, then ignoring LU the winner could be Barking to Fenchurch Street, which sees eight off-peak and roughly 20 at peak. Others include 13/14 at Piccadilly, and (formerly) 6 at London Bridge (reputedly the busiest platform in Europe, prior to the Thameslink diversions).

 

[MCR247]

If you go in terms of per track, then ignoring LU the winner could be Barking to Fenchurch Street, which sees eight off-peak and roughly 20 at peak. Others include 13/14 at Piccadilly, and (formerly) 6 at London Bridge (reputedly the busiest platform in Europe, prior to the Thameslink diversions).

I think that single line section of track that TL use in London wins?

 

[WatcherZero]

According to a Tfl press burble I saw, they consider Clapham Junction the busiest stretch but Crossrail will take its crown when it opens.

 

[b0b]

I always thought it was Partick station, if we're counting 2 track stations.

But yeah, I think the single track on Thameslink between Blackfriars and Metropolitan Junction is the absolute winner.

 

[swt_passenger]

According to a Tfl press burble I saw, they consider Clapham Junction the busiest stretch but Crossrail will take its crown when it opens.

I think it was a DfT press release regarding Farringdon once Thameslink and Crossrail were up and running, which will both be 24 tph each way, but as discussed fairly widely at the time it only exceeds Clapham Junction if you include the LU Met and H&C services as well, giving the 'whole station' an extra 32 tph each way, so 80 tph each way. In their usual way though the expected service is described as 'more than 140 trains per hour' - but this is only possible if you count both directions - ie a 24 tph service becomes a 48 thp service. It's magic isn't it...

This is it I think: http://nds.coi.gov.uk/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=414470&NewsAreaId=2
So if you start randomly including LU services, it may well be that the London Bridge complex post Thameslink will be far ahead of Farringdon anyway - and that then revolves around a debate as to whether or not it counts if there are separate gatelines. What about Waterloo if you count all the LU lines there?

 

[Ivo]

What of King's Cross then? If you allow for the Underground, as above, it and St Pancras become one complex, which could potentially have over 200 an hour...

 

[Waddon]

Well, when I started this thread I was really just kind of thinking of how many trains could you squeeze down a single piece of track in an hour... obviously big stations might have dozens of movements, but thats over dozens of tracks (for example Clapham Junction might well be the busiest overall but some platforms see only a couple of movements an hour).

On Crossrail thats how many trains will be passing down just one piece of track, I don't imagine many other single pieces of track have any more services than that...

 

[steamybrian]

I suggest London Bridge-Borough Market Jn- Metropolitan Junction as being the busiest section of line . Possibly the only section of line with colour light signals positioned less than a train apart (closing up signals).
Must be around 30 trains per hour in the peak period in each direction..

 

[b0b]

I suggest London Bridge-Borough Market Jn- Metropolitan Junction as being the busiest section of line . Possibly the only section of line with colour light signals positioned less than a train apart (closing up signals).
Must be around 30 trains per hour in the peak period in each direction..

true, but there are multiple tracks here until you get to the chord between Metropolitan Jcn and Blackfriars.

 

[Waddon]

true, but there are multiple tracks here until you get to the chord between Metropolitan Jcn and Blackfriars.

Yes but only one track in each direction over Borough Market (until the new bridge is finished) carrying all London Bridge to Charing Cross traffic plus all London Bridge to Blackfriars traffic. I imagine this is a good contender for busiest section of line

 

[WatcherZero]

If we go back to the original question however, which was whats the line with the most frequent service? not what stretch of track, junction or station.

 

[At_traction]

If we go back to the original question however, which was whats the line with the most frequent service? not what stretch of track, junction or station.

But as the OP himself elaborated, he indeed did mean a single track, ie. back-to-back trains, rather than a set of tracks... *Yesss!*

And what is a line? If there are different operators along a portion of trackwork, does that consist of a series of point-to-point timetabled "lines" that diverge from one another at one point, or is a single portion of side-by-side tracks (perhaps only a few stops in length) with several such services running a "line"?

Is the ECML as a whole a line? Is the volume counted as an average of portions like a higher-frequency Kings Cross to Hitchin and, say, less so Grantham to Doncaster?

 

[steamybrian]

Going back to the original question of a double track Crossrail line with 24 trains per hour each way. I have interpreted it to mean "what is the most frequent service over the same set of rails" then I still stick with the double track London Bridge- Metropolitan Junction having around 30 trains per hour each way particularly in the peak hours.
As said previously -work is already under construction to quadruple the tracks.
Between two stations using the same set of rails try Waterloo East- London Bridge (OK it is 4 tracks Waterloo East- Metropolitan Jn but then narrows to 2)
Thus it eliminates Clapham Jn- Waterloo as the service is spread over 4 tracks each way.