High Wycombe to Bexhill

[RussWWFC]

I've pretty much done all the work myself, but have a couple of slight queries.

I've found that I can do this journey for £27.20 on my Network Railcard. Splitting at Sevenoaks.

Times as follows


Buy split ticket
High Wycombe to Sevenoaks (£17.20)
Sevenoaks to Bexhill (£10.00)
£27.20

Leave High Wycombe: 0925
Arrive Marylebone: 09:53

Underground to Charing Cross

Charing Cross 10:45
Hastings 12:23

Hastings 12:23
Bexhill 12:34

After: Leave Bexhill 17:15
Hastings 17:27

Stop in Hastings

Hastings 18:31
London Bridge 19:53

Marylebone 20:44 & 21:00
Wycombe 21:14 & 21:23

I just have a couple of queries - I understand I'll be OK to break my journey at Hastings, unless anyone can advise me otherwise

Also, the Trainpal app, it's got some rotten reviews for customer service, but all I really want is to buy and pick up tickets from the machine. I can save a little bit more using this, but is it worth the risk of paying and not being able to collect tickets. Or is it better to do the work myself using a more reliable operator / ticket machine.

Thanks in advance

 

[Watershed]

I've pretty much done all the work myself, but have a couple of slight queries.

I've found that I can do this journey for £27.20 on my Network Railcard. Splitting at Sevenoaks.

Times as follows


Buy split ticket
High Wycombe to Sevenoaks (£17.20)
Sevenoaks to Bexhill (£10.00)
£27.20

Leave High Wycombe: 0925
Arrive Marylebone: 09:53

Underground to Charing Cross

Charing Cross 10:45
Hastings 12:23

Hastings 12:23
Bexhill 12:34

After: Leave Bexhill 17:15
Hastings 17:27

Stop in Hastings

Hastings 18:31
London Bridge 19:53

Marylebone 20:44 & 21:00
Wycombe 21:14 & 21:23

I just have a couple of queries - I understand I'll be OK to break my journey at Hastings, unless anyone can advise me otherwise

Also, the Trainpal app, it's got some rotten reviews for customer service, but all I really want is to buy and pick up tickets from the machine. I can save a little bit more using this, but is it worth the risk of paying and not being able to collect tickets. Or is it better to do the work myself using a more reliable operator / ticket machine.

Thanks in advance

Splitting at Sevenoaks does look like the cheapest option, although High Wycombe to Sevenoaks is actually £16.20.

Personally, I wouldn't touch TrainPal with a bargepole - I've simply heard too many horror stories. But I appreciate that they often offer enticing vouchers and discount codes!

I think you'll find you will be able to make much quicker connections across London than the official connection time allows for. The Bakerloo Line takes you directly from Marylebone to Charing Cross, taking 9 minutes and running every 3 minutes.

 

[MikeWh]

I understand I'll be OK to break my journey at Hastings, unless anyone can advise me otherwise

Yes, break of journey is allowed on either direction of the Sevenoaks to Bexhill ticket.

Also, the Trainpal app, it's got some rotten reviews for customer service, but all I really want is to buy and pick up tickets from the machine. I can save a little bit more using this, but is it worth the risk of paying and not being able to collect tickets. Or is it better to do the work myself using a more reliable operator / ticket machine.

I can't comment on Trainpal. My personal preference is to use trainsplit.com. They suggest the same split above (although strangely the first ticket is quoted as £16.20). They'll charge 82p as a share of the saving over the single through ticket. You pick the tickets up at the machine at High Wycombe. If you get any issues then the people behind trainsplit are on this site and will assist.

 

[stevetay3]

Why is it £10 to Bexhill when it is £15.10 to Hastings , in my reckoning a shorter distance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I have an Off Peak day single from Sevenoaks to Bexhill as being £15.10, so £9.95 after Network Railcard discount.

 

[stevetay3]

I have an Off Peak day single from Sevenoaks to Bexhill as being £15.10, so £9.95 after Network Railcard discount.

Sevenoaks to Hastings 15.10. Off peak day return with railcard discount Fare Setter South Eastern
Sevenoaks to Bexhill. 10.00. Off peak day return. with discount. Fare Setter Southern

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Sevenoaks to Hastings 15.10. Off peak day return with railcard discount Fare Setter South Eastern
Sevenoaks to Bexhill. 10.00. Off peak day return. with discount. Fare Setter Southern

So the difference in the fare setters obviously must have something to do with it?

 

[Watershed]

Why is it £10 to Bexhill when it is £15.10 to Hastings , in my reckoning a shorter distance.

The fare to Hastings is set by Southeastern, who increased all their fares by significantly more than inflation for several years, due to HS1 (not that journeys such as these benefitted in any way!). They also abolished many cheaper fares.

Whereas the fare to Bexhill is set by Southern, who firstly did not institute such a policy, and who furthermore have long priced their Off-Peak and longer distance fares at very reasonable rates. In some cases they actually cut their fares.

At privatisation, the Off-Peak Day Single to Bexhill was £9.70, whilst it was £9.50 to Hastings. Today it's £15.10 vs £22.60!

 

[Haywain]

Why is it £10 to Bexhill when it is £15.10 to Hastings , in my reckoning a shorter distance.

It's called an anomaly, and it's a curious one as the Bexhill fare is probably valid via Hastings as it adds under 2 miles to the shortest journey.

 

[stevetay3]

So the difference in the fare setters must have something to do with it?

Yes but why, if I were going to Hastings I would buy the Bexhill Ticket.

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Can you even get a Southern Service from Sevenoaks to Hastings

 

[Watershed]

Yes but why, if I were going to Hastings I would buy the Bexhill Ticket.

And you would save quite a lot if you did.

Can you even get a Southern Service from Sevenoaks to Hastings

You can get one between St Leonard's Warrior Square and Hastings

 

[stevetay3]

It's called an anomaly, and it's a curious one as the Bexhill fare is probably valid via Hastings as it adds under 2 miles to the shortest journey.

I think this is another reason for a complete overhaul of the fairs system but I have said all I have to say about that in a previous thread. What other way would you go to Bexhill from Sevenoaks other than via Hastings.

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And you would save quite a lot if you did.


You can get one between St Leonard's Warrior Square and Hastings

Yes but not to Sevenoaks.

 

[Haywain]

Can you even get a Southern Service from Sevenoaks to Hastings

That's got no relevance - Many flows are priced by companies who don't operate the majority of trains.

What other way would you go to Bexhill from Sevenoaks other than via Hastings.

The obvious would be changing at St Leonards Warrior Square (even though that is part of the Hastings routing point group)

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I think this is another reason for a complete overhaul of the fairs system

I don't think anyone would argue that this situation is ridiculous. But be careful what you wish for, the Bexhill fare could increase to set things straight.

 

[stevetay3]

I think this is another reason for a complete overhaul of the fairs system but I have said all I have to say about that in a previous thread. What other way would you go to Bexhill from Sevenoaks other than via Hastings.

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Yes but not to Sevenoaks.

If I went to Sevenoaks office and asked for a CDR to Hastings they would tell me to buy the Bexhill ticket would they.

 

[Watershed]

If I went to Sevenoaks office and asked for a CDR to Hastings they would tell me to buy the Bexhill ticket would they.

No, they probably wouldn't even know that the fare to Bexhill is cheaper.

They would sell you exactly what you had asked for - a ticket to Hastings.

 

[Haywain]

If I went to Sevenoaks office and asked for a CDR to Hastings they would tell me to buy the Bexhill ticket would they.

No. Ticket offices should sell the cheapest ticket for the specific journey requested - so if you request to Hastings you get the Hastings fare, and if you request to Bexhill you get the Bexhill fare. This is called impartial retailing and to do otherwise would be a breach of their obligations under their franchise agreement.

 

[stevetay3]

No, they probably wouldn't even know that the fare to Bexhill is cheaper.

They would sell you exactly what you had asked for - a ticket to Hastings.

But are they not supposed to sell you the cheapest available ticket at the time, or did that go out of the window when BR ended.

 

[Watershed]

But are they not supposed to sell you the cheapest available ticket at the time, or did that go out of the window when BR ended.

Yes, they are supposed to sell you the cheapest ticket to the station you have asked for. In this case they would be offering you a ticket to a different station, which they are not required to do.

Impartial retailing obligations didn't even exist in BR days (although this anomaly has arisen post-BR).

 

[stevetay3]

Yes, they are supposed to sell you the cheapest ticket to the station you have asked for. In this case they would be offering you a ticket to a different station, which they are not required to do.

Impartial retailing obligations didn't even exist in BR days (although this anomaly has arisen post-BR).

Sorry I stand corrected I assumed it was the cheapest for the journey being made

 

[Watershed]

Sorry I stand corrected I assumed it was the cheapest for the journey being made

No; it would be a near impossible task to check whether there is a cheaper fare for a different 'flow' which would be valid.

 

[stevetay3]

No; it would be a near impossible task to check whether there is a cheaper fare for a different 'flow' which would be valid.

Yes this advances my previous remarks about the absurdity of the current situation, if the rail staff themselves can’t work it all out, what chance has Joe Public got ?

 

[JonathanH]

Yes this advances my previous remarks about the absurdity of the current situation, if the rail staff themselves can’t work it all out, what chance has Joe Public got ?

It may be absurd but it could only ever be resolved (and may well indeed be resolved) by making the fare to Bexhill more expensive.

Why does Joe Public need to know that it is cheaper to go to Bexhill than Hastings? They decide whether or not to accept the fare offered.

 

[stevetay3]

It may be absurd but it could only ever be resolved (and may well indeed be resolved) by making the fare to Bexhill more expensive.

Why does Joe Public need to know that it is cheaper to go to Bexhill than Hastings? They decide whether or not to accept the fare offered.

It’s not just Bexhill to Hastings, I am just using that as an example, it is happening all over the place and needs a total overhaul, if some fares need to go up so be it, but they would dam well need to explain why.

 

[Watershed]

It may be absurd but it could only ever be resolved (and may well indeed be resolved) by making the fare to Bexhill more expensive.

Why does Joe Public need to know that it is cheaper to go to Bexhill than Hastings? They decide whether or not to accept the fare offered.

Exactly. If the quoted fare to Hastings is more than they are willing to pay, they will simply not travel by train.

I am reminded of people who complain when they find out that a sale/discount started just after they bought an expensive item. If they were happy to pay the original price when they bought it, what's the problem?

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It’s not just Bexhill to Hastings, I am just using that as an example, it is happening all over the place and needs a total overhaul, if some fares need to go up so be it, but they would dam well need to explain why.

I would have thought the reason is obvious? The government isn't going to be willing to increase rail subsidies to eliminate anomalies.

So if the anomalies are to be eliminated, the only real option is that the anomalous fares must increase to match the "normal" fare.

 

[Haywain]

A problem with the removal of anomalies is that it would remove opportunities to have fares which reflect different standards of service - by which I mean cheaper fares where slow and infrequent services are provided in more remote areas.

 

[stevetay3]

Exactly. If the quoted fare to Hastings is more than they are willing to pay, they will simply not travel by train.

I am reminded of people who complain when they find out that a sale/discount started just after they bought an expensive item. If they were happy to pay the original price when they bought it, what's the problem?

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I would have thought the reason is obvious? The government isn't going to be willing to increase rail subsidies to eliminate anomalies.

So if the anomalies are to be eliminated, the only real option is that the anomalous fares must increase to match the "normal" fare.

Surely this will end with GBR on the horizon, why do they need tax payer subsidy when they are making massive profits. The privatisation of the railway was supposed to bring better service more choice and cheaper fares due to all the competition. The only competition is on the East coast line all the others were rejected and the East Coast is run by the government at the moment and just look what happened to the stranded Lumo passengers yesterday. Cheaper fairer better, on what planet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2021 ==

Exactly. If the quoted fare to Hastings is more than they are willing to pay, they will simply not travel by train.

I am reminded of people who complain when they find out that a sale/discount started just after they bought an expensive item. If they were happy to pay the original price when they bought it, what's the problem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2021 ==


I would have thought the reason is obvious? The government isn't going to be willing to increase rail subsidies to eliminate anomalies.

So if the anomalies are to be eliminated, the only real option is that the anomalous fares must increase to match the "normal" fare.

Then they should be refunded down to the sale price.

 

[Haywain]

why do they need tax payer subsidy when they are making massive profits.

Profits? Only a couple of train operators were making profits before the pandemic and that was after their subsidies had Ben taken into account. Since then break even is but a distant dream.

what happened to the stranded Lumo passengers yesterday.

Lumo is an open access operator and lies outside of all this. But many of their ‘stranded’ passengers were carried by LNER.

 

[Watershed]

Surely this will end with GBR on the horizon, why do they need tax payer subsidy when they are making massive profits.

The railway already ran at a substantial loss before Covid. It now runs at a much larger loss.

The only ones making a profit are the ROSCOs (and even there, increased competition in recent years has reduced margins) and construction companies. The TOCs had a period of arguably excessive profits but those days are now long gone.

The railway will continue to need large subsidies unless the network is trimmed down to a small number of profitable lines (see the Serpell Report for some idea of how small a railway that might mean).

The privatisation of the railway was supposed to bring better service more choice and cheaper fares due to all the competition.

Yes, and Brexit was supposed to give us £150m a week to spend on the NHS

The only competition is on the East coast line all the others were rejected

There's competition on a few other lines, and freight is a highly competitive market. But yes, by and large it's become clear that on-rail competition is a nonsense.

and the East Coast is run by the government at the moment

Almost the entire railway is ran by the government, even if only indirectly.

just look what happened to the stranded Lumo passengers yesterday. Cheaper fairer better, on what planet.

Allegedly there was ticket acceptance. There seem to be mixed accounts of what happened.

Then they should be refunded down to the sale price.

On what basis? If businesses always just did what's "fair" (to some people) they would never make a profit.

 

[stevetay3]

Profits? Only. Couple of train operators were making profits before the pandemic and that was after their subsidies had Ben taken into account. Since then break even is but a distant dream.

Lumo is an open access operator and lies outside of all this. But many of their ‘stranded’ passengers were carried by LNER.

Some were not, some were charged over £100 pounds according to other threads on here.

One day using the pandemic as an excuse will have to stop, Profits were massive before covid19

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Some were not, some were charged over £100 pounds according to other threads on here.

One day using the pandemic as an excuse will have to stop, Profits were massive before covid19

The railway is a service for the public not a magic money tree for foreign train profiteers to subsidise there own systems.

 

[Haywain]

Yes, and Brexit was supposed to give us £150m a week to spend on the NHS

350 million that’s what they put on the bus.

Profits were massive before covid19

They really weren’t.