High Wycombe (HWY) - Stirling (STG) : Route & Ticket query.

[General Zod]

Greetings !
I'm planning the above journey in the coming weeks and would like to take in the Settle - Carlisle line en route. I've a choice of purchasing a "via London " ticket or one via Banbury / Birmingham New Street. After delving into the routing guide if I travel via Banbury then I'm given though following permissible routes :

Banbury Group - Stirling Maps

MW+BS+SG
MW+CG+SG
MW+NE

Correct me if I'm wrong but does this allow me to travel High Wycombe -Banbury - Leeds - Newcastle - Stirling but NOT High Wycombe - Banbury - Leeds - Carlisle - Stirling ? None of the maps show the Leeds - Carlisle route.
In order to travel between Leeds (LDS) and Carlisle (CAR) would I have to purchase the "via London" ( any permitted route ticket ) ? I haven't checked but I think this ticket would be valid for the LDS-CAR leg.

The Trainline offers, amongst others, these three types of ticket :

A. Off Peak Return ( not London)
B. Off Peak Return ( via London)
C. Super Off Peak Return ( via both routes ?)

Ticket A allows me to travel via Banbury leaving HWY during the morning peak.
Ticket B allows me to travel via London with certain peak restrictions
Ticket C allows me to travel via London but ONLY during off peak hours but does it allow me to travel via Banbury during morning peak ?

So could I use the HWY - STG Super Off Peak Return departing HWY during the morning peak, travelling via Banbury, Leeds, Carlisle and then onto Stirling via Glasgow ? I fear the restriction code on this ticket only allows me to use trains scheduled to depart Birmingham New St after 0930 i.e restriction code 2V

Thanks,
Z

 

[OwlMan]

The tickets availalble are:

NOT LONDON SVR £112-30 restriction code 8X (not before 0500)

+ANY PERMITTED SVR £203-80 restriction code 1X (any train outbound)

+ANY PERMITTED SSR £119-90 restriction code 9F (various restrictions see below)

Code 9F oubound restrictions (Mon -Fri)
via Euston Dep Euston after 0905
via St Pancras Dep St Pancras 1026 - 1515 & after 1859
Via Kings Cross Dep Kings X 0929 - 1457 & after 1859 (1815 Fridays)
Via Birmingham XC Not Before 0930.

The only route which includes Leeds - Carlisle (settle & Carlisle) is going via London you are able to travel to Leeds from either St Pancras or Kings Cross directly (as well as from Euston, Paddington & Liverpool Street but not Marylebone as you will be doubling back - see attached diagram
diagram in post below

Peter

 

[cuccir]

In a less-thorough-than-collybs-will-offer-you search, the East Coast website throws up two trains for HWY>STG via Settle, both via London. Interestingly it sends you via Ed Haymarket on the way out, though most returns are via Glasgow
--
Full details of outward travel for the earliest and fastest train:

High Wycombe 08:31
London Marylebone09:13

London Underground from London Marylebone to London Kings Cross

London Kings Cross 10:10
Leeds12:36

Leeds 12:49
Carlisle15:32

Carlisle 16:11
Haymarket17:30

Haymarket 17:37
Stirling18:26
--

 

[OwlMan]

image attached

 

[General Zod]

Thank you very much gents.
The Any Permitted + SSR ticket has a code 9F restriction

"Via Birmingham XC Not Before 0930"

1. Could I still use the SSR on the 0720 Chiltern train from HWY - Birmingham Moor St ( arr 0859 ). As I won't be travelling to BMO on XC trains I assume the 9F restriction won't be valid ?

The only route which includes Leeds - Carlisle (settle & Carlisle) is going via London

Why cannot I travel on an SSR via Birmingham, considering it is an any permitted ticket , then up to Leeds on XC ( after 0930), finally changing at Leeds for the Carlisle train ? I would have to change at Leeds anyway if I were travelling from KGX.

Would a gripper on the LDS-CAR train see that my ticket was gripped with a XC mark and penalise me for getting to Leeds via XC and not EC ?



Thanks
Z

 

[b0b]

From what I can tell, High Wycombe is also associates with routeing point Oxford, and seems to pass the fares check for a SOR on NFM05 (needs checking on NFM06)

Oxford to Stirling allows CS+MM+FD which seems to allow going via Derby then the Midland Mainline and then the Settle-Carlisle line

Or did I make a mistake?

 

[OwlMan]

Thank you very much gents.
The Any Permitted + SSR ticket has a code 9F restriction

"Via Birmingham XC Not Before 0930"

1. Could I still use the SSR on the 0720 Chiltern train from HWY - Birmingham Moor St ( arr 0859 ). As I won't be travelling to BMO on XC trains I assume the 9F restriction won't be valid ?



Why cannot I travel on an SSR via Birmingham, considering it is an any permitted ticket , then up to Leeds on XC ( after 0930), finally changing at Leeds for the Carlisle train ? I would have to change at Leeds anyway if I were travelling from KGX.

Would a gripper on the LDS-CAR train see that my ticket was gripped with a XC mark and penalise me for getting to Leeds via XC and not EC ?



Thanks
Z

No the ticket is not valid for any travel before 0930 if travelling via Birmingham New Street. You can not leave High Wycombe until after 0930 if using that route.
.............
You could travel that route but technically it is not valid in the routeing guide, but as you say nobody would know which way you had travelled (as it is valid from Paddington via Banbury)

Peter
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From what I can tell, High Wycombe is also associates with routeing point Oxford, and seems to pass the fares check for a SOR on NFM05 (needs checking on NFM06)

Oxford to Stirling allows CS+MM+FD which seems to allow going via Derby then the Midland Mainline and then the Settle-Carlisle line

Or did I make a mistake?

Yes, you would have to travel the shortest route to Oxford and then go to Stirling
How are you going to get to Oxford?
You would have to walk between the two Bicester stations.
The shortest route by rail without walking is via Kings Sutton (or Banbury) but you can not go this way as you would double back from Oxford - Banbury

Peter

 

[b0b]

The shortest route by rail without walking is via Kings Sutton (or Banbury) but you can not go this way as you would double back from Oxford - Banbury

Ah good call, I didn't realize you had to travel via the routeing point and not double back.

The Addlestone example in the NRG clarifies this. Thanks again

 

[General Zod]

No the ticket is not valid for any travel before 0930 if travelling via Birmingham New Street. You can not leave High Wycombe until after 0930 if using that route.

Peter

Thanks Peter. The Trainline shows that I can use a SSR ( on Chiltern) for the 0750 dep. from HWY arr. Birm Moor St. 0932, so I think the 0930 restriction may only apply if I use XC from Banbury to Birmingham New Street. It looks as if I can use the SSR on any morning Chiltern train from HWY - BMO, but I can only catch a 0930+ train from BHM for my journey onwards.

 

[John @ home]

No the ticket is not valid for any travel before 0930 if travelling via Birmingham New Street. You can not leave High Wycombe until after 0930 if using that route.
.............
You could travel that route but technically it is not valid in the routeing guide, but as you say nobody would know which way you had travelled (as it is valid from Paddington via Banbury)

How about buying a £112-30 HIGH WYCOMBE - STIRLING route NOT LONDON SVR and using this from High Wycombe to Leeds. This is valid because you are obeying the restriction "By any train except those scheduled to depart before 0500."

On arrival at Leeds, go to the Travel Centre and excess both outward and return parts of the ticket to become a £119-90 HIGH WYCOMBE - STIRLING route + ANY PERMITTED SSR. This should cost you £7.60. If asked why you want to do this, say you want to travel via Settle and you have discovered that the route NOT LONDON ticket is not valid via Settle, but the route + ANY PERMITTED ticket is valid.

The original ticket, plus the excess fare ticket, now takes the conditions of the route + ANY PERMITTED SSR and appears to meet your needs for the remainder of the outward leg and the whole of the return leg.

 

[tony_mac]

From what I can tell, High Wycombe is also associates with routeing point Oxford, and seems to pass the fares check for a SOR on NFM05 (needs checking on NFM06)

Oxford to Stirling allows CS+MM+FD which seems to allow going via Derby then the Midland Mainline and then the Settle-Carlisle line

Or did I make a mistake?

There is also a bit in the routeing guide which suggests that if a routeing point fails the fares check rule, then you should actually avoid that routeing point.

so Shrewsbury is not an appropriate routeing point
....
When tracing these routes on the maps you must avoid Shrewsbury because it is not an appropriate routeing point for this journey

 

[John @ home]

There is also a bit in the routeing guide which suggests that if a routeing point fails the fares check rule, then you should actually avoid that routeing point.

I don't quite see what point you're making here, Tony.

For this High Wycombe - Stirling journey, both Banbury and Oxford pass the fares check rule for route Not London fares. Both London Group and Greenford Und pass the fares check rule for route + Any Permitted fares.

 

[tony_mac]

I don't quite see what point you're making here, Tony.

no, neither do I!
I obviously hadn't understood the thread, sorry.

(For future reference, the point would have been that if Banbury failed the fares check rule, and Oxford passed it - you still couldn't travel via Oxford and then through Banbury. Maybe! As I think that's what this bit is trying to say, but it's actually quite unclear, and not mentioned anywhere else that I can see.)

 

[b0b]

There is also a bit in the routeing guide which suggests that if a routeing point fails the fares check rule, then you should actually avoid that routeing point.

The fact that Oxford does pass the fare check rule means the OP can simply buy the Oxford to Stirling SAVER ticket at the same price and start at Banbury assuming the ticket is good for break of journey, if he wants to take the route that's valid from Oxford, right?

I checked, Oxford to Stirling is good for a Break of Journey on the OUT ticket, the Saver has code 8X which is the only Mon-Fri not before 0500 restriction and appears to be valid via route CS+MM+FD. Thus it seems to allow High Wycombe - Banbury - Leeds - Carlisle - Stirling like you asked, via Derby.

So I say start short at Banbury on this ticket.

crap. you wanted to start at High Wycombe. Never mind

 

[tony_mac]

So I say start short at Banbury on this ticket.

and also buy a ticket from High Wycombe to Banbury?

crap. you wanted to start at High Wycombe. Never mind

crap. that wasn't there when I wrote my post! Never mind