High Speeed 2-6 set up

[Metroland]

MINISTERS have quietly set up four more high-speed rail companies similar to the one created last week to develop a new link to Heathrow.

The uncovering of the companies underlines the extent of planning towards TGV-style services. Geoff Hoon, transport secretary, last week announced the formation of the first, High Speed 2, when he approved a third runway at Heathrow.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article5537004.ece

Politicians yesterday called for the Government's proposed new high-speed rail line to split in the Midlands and carry on up to Yorkshire.

Leeds North West MP Greg Mulholland has put down a Parliamentary motion calling for the new line to be built in a Y shape, splitting at Birmingham with branches to Manchester and to Leeds via Sheffield.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Splitline-plea-for-highspeed-rail.4887125.jp

Whether it will happen or not is another matter, meanwhile:

This spring, Railteam launches a 30-million ticket distribution system, which should make it easier for international travellers to secure the lowest price for a through ticket from any distributor of European rail in a single transaction. Rail Europe can now sell tickets to 5,000 destinations across Europe. "The aim of Railteam is to improve waiting times, signage and make it easier for people to buy through tickets and cheaper tickets," said a spokesperson for Eurostar.

Rail companies hope that this greater integration of pan-European services will entice travellers off aircraft. Railteam studies suggest that business travellers are willing to travel up to four hours on rail, while leisure travellers are prepared to enjoy longer

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...e-age-of-the-train-not-the-plane-1418561.html

 

[Waverley125]

be much more sensible to split at Rugby for Birmingham, and have the main line go north to Sheffield & Leeds via Leicester, with the Manchester/Liverpool branch splitting at Sheffield.

 

[me123]

May as well get that link started; better to invest in this now than to close the line for development works later on. If these cities were to have the High Speed Rail Link, it would work very well indeed. Linking the biggest cities in this way is crucial to further development.

It would, however, need a future link to Glasgow and Edinburgh at each end if it were to be a success. I say build to these locations and then gradually expand Northwards. Linking as far as Edinburgh and Glasgow with this network would be a fantastic outcome for all cities involved.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

I've read a few things suggesting a Trans-Pennine section to the core route. Surely that would be far to slow due to the sheer mileage needed? The MP's suggestion sounds on the right lines - a core route to the Midlands then:
1. a western leg with spurs to access Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Preston.
2. An eastern leg via the East Midlands and Yorkshire. Virgin suggested a series of bypasses of twisty bits of the East Coast using the existing line where arrow straight - makes sense.

Will we ever build high speed to Scotland? Neither coast suggests easy construction of a high speed alignment.

 

[j0hn0]

I concur, but I also think that a trans pennine route would be well used.

eg if you take the eastern branch at Leeds, branch off over the pennines and join up with the western section and into Manchester and Liverpool.

t north has been crying out for a faster trans pennine link for years

 

[Mintona]

Once again, Bristol is forgotten.

 

[Waverley125]

HS2a: London-MK-Rugby-Coventry-Birmingham

HS2b: Rugby-Leicester-Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool-Douglas-Belfast

HS2c: Sheffield-Leeds-York-Newcastle

HS2d: Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull

HS2e: Leeds-Carlisle-Glasgow

HS2f: Carlisle-Edinburgh-Dundee-Aberdeen

HS3: Manchester-Leeds-Hull

HS4a: London-Heathrow-Reading-Swindon-Bristol-Cardiff-Swansea

HS4b: Reading-Taunton-Exeter-Plymouth-Truro-Penzance

HS4c: Reading-Winchester-Southampton

HS5a: Southampton-Portsmouth--Brighton-Ashford

HS5b: Southampton-Exeter

HS6a: Taunton-Bristol-Gloucester-Birmingham-Stoke-Manchester

HS7: Ebbsfleet-Milton Keynes

This gives the south west & the north direct trains to london, to the continent avoiding london and between each other. Ideally these should be built for 200mph and eurostar length trains-if, as should be possible, Sheffield, Manchester & Leeds are within 90 mins of London, passenger numbers will be huge.

A percentage should also be taken from HS fares to keep standard rail fares down and make them more affordable for the working family. A national company needs setting up to run domestic trains, while Eurostar needs fully integrating with Thalys to provide services elsewhere in europe-Madrid, Amsterdam, Berlin & Munich would be good places to start serving.

Also, destinations need scaling down the further out a train is coming from e.g. Aberdeen-Paris calls Dundee, Edinburgh, Carlisle, Leeds, Sheffield, Calais, Lille & Paris. The aim should be to kill of all domestic air travel, and take the lions portion of european air travel as well.

Also, it must be rememberd that while business passengers will use them, for the most part, these are not commuter trains. First class should be opulent, and full on-train dining provided. Sleeper trains should be looked into on longer-distance e.g. Aberdeen-Rome services.

 

[D841]

HS2a: London-MK-Rugby-Coventry-Birmingham


Also, destinations need scaling down the further out a train is coming from e.g. Aberdeen-Paris calls Dundee, Edinburgh, Carlisle, Leeds, Sheffield, Calais, Lille & Paris. The aim should be to kill of all domestic air travel, and take the lions portion of european air travel as well.

Also, it must be rememberd that while business passengers will use them, for the most part, these are not commuter trains. First class should be opulent, and full on-train dining provided. Sleeper trains should be looked into on longer-distance e.g. Aberdeen-Rome services.

What makes you think there's a market for international services? Cheap air fares killed off BRs original plans for sleeper services to Amsterdam and Frankfurt, and HM Immigration and Customs requirements will kill off any possible case you make unless you can find some way to make those requirements compatible with the trains being used for domestic journeys within the UK too.

 

[Metroland]

International rail passenger services are deregulated on 1st Jan 2010, which could make things interesting. Will the UK be in the Euro by then?

 

[D841]

International rail passenger services are deregulated on 1st Jan 2010, which could make things interesting. Will the UK be in the Euro by then?

I live in hope

 

[Techniquest]

We don't want the Euro! Well, my family and I don't! Let them keep their crazy money! We've already lost more than what's fair to the rest of Europe (around here if nowhere else, the Polish and co have been given the limited number of jobs with keeping maybe one or two British people in work in the factory up the road. British people should have work in British employment AHEAD of Europeans, especially when said British people have been employed at said location for years and even decades), let's not lose our currency too!

I'm proud of the pound, I dislike using the Euro on my rare trips abroad (not left British soil since August 2006) and would not like to have to use it all the time. Decades ago decimalisation sent prices of everything up, which is exactly what will happen if we go Euro. Indeed, it happened when ticket names changed for UK rail travel and they'll see no reason not to do so if the Euro arrives on these shores for internal use.

On the topic at hand, it is good news that these have been unveiled. Whether they actually go ahead is anyone's guess, but they are needed now and certainly will be within the next decade when the current environment fad changes to a mandatory change to non-domestic air travel. And when those people come off the planes, they'll expect to find seats on the trains. As far as I know, both VWC and NXEC have rather well loaded trains with passengers going from The Centre Of The Universe to Edinburgh and Glasgow already, so these ex-air passengers will find themselves standing and far from amused, potentially going back to air.

The lengthy point-to-point journey times (compared to air at least) will put air passengers off too. So until we get fast city-to-city journey times by rail that compare to air travel, domestic air travel will sadly reign supreme. I've considered it now and again for going to Scotland, but the airport festers get on my nerves and I could do Hereford to Glasgow by rail in the time it takes me to go from Hereford to Glasgow via rail to Birmingham International and Easyjet/Ryanair/whatever with onwards connection from Prestwick into Glasgow. Plus there's the fact I'm a rail enthusiast, not an aviation enthusiast!

I say bring on the high-speed railway, it'll be nice to storm up the country to Scotland at 186mph on a limited stop express.

 

[Pumbaa]

International rail passenger services are deregulated on 1st Jan 2010, which could make things interesting. Will the UK be in the Euro by then?

I'm counting down the weeks now...

 

[Waverley125]

true, but government plans should be to raise capital for the HS network by slapping another tax on cheap air fares. Basically we should bleed Ryanair, easyjet etc. dry and use the money to build HS2, 3, etc.

I will not be sorry to see Michael O'Leary signing on, and the day short-haul air travel dies will be a very good day for the world.

 

[Techniquest]

Too right! Finally, someone else feels that way!

I had a look at air fares from Birmingham to Edinburgh the other day in order to get up north for this Scottish tour next week. No luck, so looked from Bristol. With even 2 weeks notice, and flying to/from Glasgow with easyjet (Ryanair might as well have laughed and said "Scotland to Birmingham, never heard of them!", that's as useful as they are) from/to Bristol was a ridiculous £141.19. £12 of that was for baggage and £13 was for some express check-in. You couldn't actually remove that, which annoyed me. But to pay £25 extra for things you don't want/need, and on times which seemed absolutely mental (the other flights would have cost a LOT more) for the best part of £150, no bloody way.

Not that I can afford to do that tour otherwise I'd have spent a while looking up the rail fares and coach fares, but the above serves as an example as to why I refuse to touch air travel. Thankfully long-distance rail doesn't involve such nonsense as express check-in or for baggage (over-sized items and such like, yes, but not a suitcase or holdall!). And you can go directly from one city/town centre to another without the stupidly ridiculous need to trek through town for miles on end with major waits for the travel onwards (major incidents such as wires down for example not included, obviously), buy on the day and travel at comparatively reasonable levels of freedom (obviously I'm not taking peak times into/out of London into account).

All these unnecessary aircraft can queue up behind the 222s, 45s and 4472 for cutting up, quite happily for free, and selling (when the price improves) of the scrap metal. I might need a rather large yard to put all that metal in, mind, but where's that cutter's torch...

 

[Waverley125]

why'd you want to cut up 4472? lovely loco, especially when done up in apple green without those Garish smoke deflectors & double chimney.

 

[Techniquest]

Bloody thing has used up so much resources, it would make more sense to scrap her and donate the money to a worthy cause (reinstating a vitally needed line somewhere for example) than to pour more money into the cash cow.

 

[jas_sl]

be much more sensible to split at Rugby for Birmingham, and have the main line go north to Sheffield & Leeds via Leicester, with the Manchester/Liverpool branch splitting at Sheffield.

Sounds like the old Great Central main line could be used for alot of this route - has there been any consideration by the HS2 company to using this alignment vs Greenguage's suggested route along existing lines?

 

[Metroland]

Network Rail's chief engineer, Andrew McNaughton, will be seconded to the newly formed High Speed 2 company to lead investigations into new high speed lines from London to Heathrow and north.

The new company was announced on 15th January, to begin the investigation into new high speed lines.

Network Rail's chief executive Iain Coucher said: "Our Chief Engineer, Professor Andrew McNaughton, will be seconded to this new company for the next 12 months and will lead Network Rail's contribution to the development of this vital project.

"Other Network Rail staff will be seconded to HS2 as Andrew helps the Department for Transport with its plans for a new high speed line. Andrew's knowledge, experience and expertise, and that of those who join him, will be pivotal if the new company is to be able to make recommendations within the 12 month timeframe announced by the Secretary of State for Transport, Geoff Hoon.

"Andrew will lead the specification of infrastructure and train design, operation and maintenance for the new line, as well as helping to determine its likely route. This includes how the line will connect with, and become an integral part of, the expanding network.

http://www.nce.co.uk/news/2009/02/m...l;jsessionid=581D4C93F973A126EBC6314F6EFFC47E

 

[Guinness]

Promising.