High Speed Two (HS2) discussion

[NotATrainspott]

Just a thought, but why don't we install Fibre-to-the-Home/Premises for those affected by HS2 construction work? There isn't an incredibly vast number of people who are affected so the cost wouldn't be too extravagant, and they could benefit from the HS2 works almost immediately. The cost of this would be cheaper than providing extra compensation and would provide a benefit which isn't solely monetary, but adds to the communities affected and makes their homes more valuable.

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure people just want actual money as compensation!

Most have acknowledged the fact that during construction their properties might lose value, but once done will probably return to normal (as in where they'd have been anyway).

As such, people are simply worried about the fact that they might be stuck where they are until HS2 is built - and therefore want financial compensation now. Perhaps they're already planning to retire in the south of France sooner than the completion date.

 

[edwin_m]

Just a thought, but why don't we install Fibre-to-the-Home/Premises for those affected by HS2 construction work? There isn't an incredibly vast number of people who are affected so the cost wouldn't be too extravagant, and they could benefit from the HS2 works almost immediately. The cost of this would be cheaper than providing extra compensation and would provide a benefit which isn't solely monetary, but adds to the communities affected and makes their homes more valuable.

HS2 also provides a good opportunity to lay a few more telecommunications cables up and down the country.

 

[Chris125]

Some interesting thoughts from Jim Steer on the 'High Speed Rail Industry Leaders Group' website -

The Chancellor’s Autumn Statement: Strengthening the case for HS2 even further?

Chris

 

[HowardGWR]

I'm sure people just want actual money as compensation!

Most have acknowledged the fact that during construction their properties might lose value, but once done will probably return to normal (as in where they'd have been anyway).

As such, people are simply worried about the fact that they might be stuck where they are until HS2 is built - and therefore want financial compensation now. Perhaps they're already planning to retire in the south of France sooner than the completion date.

One hopes they will take a profitable escape route as offered. That alone would reduce the legal expense of the possible petitions, if they cease to be made.

 

[jon0844]

HS2 also provides a good opportunity to lay a few more telecommunications cables up and down the country.

Absolutely. Not only to add more for when it opens, but to have a nice easy way to add-in more capacity in future years too.

 

[edwin_m]

Some interesting thoughts from Jim Steer on the 'High Speed Rail Industry Leaders Group' website -

The Chancellor’s Autumn Statement: Strengthening the case for HS2 even further?

Chris

Interesting idea for cross-country services to run via HS2 and Heathrow instead of Reading. Throws another worm into the can of the airport debate too.

 

[WatcherZero]

Commons Transport Committee's report on HS2 has come down in favour of it, they are also saying that the Government should do more to publicise its cost is £28bn not £50bn, give more thought to including Heathrow HS2 station in phase 1 and to investigate building phase 1 and phase 2 at the same time.

Good line in the report, while £50bn sounds large and people think that it would squeeze other national spending in the context of £1.2 trillion spent on infrastructure during the 15 years of construction its in reality only a small slice of wider spending (about 4%).

 

[Brystar35]

Hello everybody this is my own 2 cents for HS2 i think to me both phases should be build at once if its possible because it will allow it to be completed sooner then later, or they could build it all at once and open it in phases while phase one is completed phase two can be under construction.

I am really excited for this i know its going to happen i can tell the UK is really in support of the Railways including HS2 well the majority.

I am amazed that the things applied for HS1 will apply for HS2 which is a good thing anyways cheers i am hoping i get to ride HS2 when i come to the UK.

note: i am living in the USA but i do like the British Rail network

 

[YorkshireBear]

HS2 is not in majority. Most people do not understand the project and reject it based on cost only.

 

[jon0844]

Commons Transport Committee's report on HS2 has come down in favour of it, they are also saying that the Government should do more to publicise its cost is £28bn not £50bn, give more thought to including Heathrow HS2 station in phase 1 and to investigate building phase 1 and phase 2 at the same time.

Good line in the report, while £50bn sounds large and people think that it would squeeze other national spending in the context of £1.2 trillion spent on infrastructure during the 15 years of construction its in reality only a small slice of wider spending (about 4%).

Joe Public don't seem to realise the huge amount of money spent on things by a Government. Imagine how much the NHS costs every single day.

People think of the money in terms of what that money would mean to them, as you just can't scale it up to think beyond what you know. As such, once you start talking in hundreds of millions and billions - it sounds like you're talking about enough money to buy the world.

It's like when people moan that a director that got a payrise should give that money to all of their staff.. which might amount to a few pounds per person.

Fortunately, for the most part, a Government can see the bigger picture and see that the cost of HS2 isn't as significant as 'we' think, especially when considering the benefits gained from it in the long run - as in 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now.

 

[The Ham]

Joe Public don't seem to realise the huge amount of money spent on things by a Government. Imagine how much the NHS costs every single day.

People think of the money in terms of what that money would mean to them, as you just can't scale it up to think beyond what you know. As such, once you start talking in hundreds of millions and billions - it sounds like you're talking about enough money to buy the world.

It's like when people moan that a director that got a payrise should give that money to all of their staff.. which might amount to a few pounds per person.

Fortunately, for the most part, a Government can see the bigger picture and see that the cost of HS2 isn't as significant as 'we' think, especially when considering the benefits gained from it in the long run - as in 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now.

Agreed. Even in a small company of say 50 people if the one person at the top has a pay rise of £5,000 then that only equates to just less than £1.50 per week after tax, which some people would wonder why the company bothered.

Scale those figures up so it's 5,000 people with the top few are getting £500,000 or even 50,000 people with the top few are getting £5,000,000 and it equals the same amount per person.

 

[Geezertronic]

I just read the following posting on the RailNews blog which just about sums up the amount of "Astonishing Ignorance" surrounding HS2. The "Astonishing Ignorance" quote is made by Richard Houghton speaking for HS2AA who himself shows an astonishing amount of ignorance

REPORTS about HS2 are coming along with increasingly tight headways just at the moment.

If nothing else, they give anyone bored with the imminent festivities something different to read on Boxing Day, and today we have another one.

This is from the Commons Transport Committee, which is broadly confirming its support for the scheme, subject to one or two qualifications.

The suggestions from the Committee include the possibility of starting work in the north and building towards the south, which is apparently going to be considered.

As so often when these reports are published, various third parties have been making their own comments, including Labour’s shadow transport secretary Mary Creagh, who said: “Labour supports HS2 because we must address the capacity problems that mean thousands of commuters face cramped, miserable journeys into Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and London. However, three years of Government delays and mismanagement … [etc.]“.

The reference to commuters is the one which matters, because it has caused the mighty focus of opinion which is the HS2 Action Alliance (known to its friends as the rather more jaunty HS2AA) to roar defiance.

Somebody called Richard Houghton, speaking for HS2AA, offered these thoughts in response to the Labour Party statement:

“This shows astonishing ignorance about what HS2 is all about. HS2 is a high speed railway between London and Manchester; it will do nothing whatsoever to relieve commuting problems into these cities for the millions of commuters who live within only a few miles of one of these places and who travel in every day.

“The Labour Party should be supporting local people in their everyday commutes, not a Tory transport project that is not wanted by the British people. Why is the Labour Party propping up the Tory-led Coalition and this disastrously expensive and out-of-control project, against the wishes of the people?”

Well, Mr Houghton, there may be some astonishing ignorance being displayed here but not, perhaps, by the Labour Party.

HS2 will absorb most (not all) intercity traffic between London, Birmingham, Manchester and Yorkshire, leaving a lot of spare capacity on the West Coast Main Line (in particular).

What can we do with this capacity? Well, we can run more trains of a non-intercity type, including commuter trains as well as freight.

That’s the deal. More commuter trains. Fewer cramped, miserable journeys. Easy, really.

And if this explanation has done anything to combat astonishing ignorance, then so much the better.

Happy Christmas, one and all.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Very ironic there and shows what the battle is!

 

[gordonthemoron]

not building HS2 would solve the problem of cramped commuter trains on WCML though, there simply wouldn't be any as it would be a high speed only route.

 

[Brystar35]

Still i am excited to see this happening Britain should reclaim themselves their pride and to improve the economy sure it costs alot but thats all infrastructure projects but it pays off in the end.

I am in support of HS2, in the United States we are having plans and construction starting in California, the midwest, the pacific northwest, the northeast and middle atlantic states, but we have a long way to go before the majority of the public and government decides to go in favor with it.

But in Britain i see you have the Railways and the ridership to invest in HS2 your country is lucky, we are not so lucky to have public support not only that there is massive investment on your Railways.

for example, Great Western Main Line Electrification, the northern hub and electrification, Crossrail 1 and 2, HS2, Midland Mainline Electrification, Old Oak Common Railyards and new Station, and alot of projects i cannot put because the list is so long.

Anyways my point is that this is an exciting time for the British Railways i am seeing a renaissance of this new great era for the british Railway network. i am in support of HS2 i hope it gets it build its about time just like HS1 did.

 

[jon0844]

It will be built, have no fear. We just need to jump through about a gazillion hoops first.

 

[The Ham]

I just read the following posting on the RailNews blog which just about sums up the amount of "Astonishing Ignorance" surrounding HS2. The "Astonishing Ignorance" quote is made by Richard Houghton speaking for HS2AA who himself shows an astonishing amount of ignorance:

“The Labour Party should be supporting local people in their everyday commutes, not a Tory transport project that is not wanted by the British people. Why is the Labour Party propping up the Tory-led Coalition and this disastrously expensive and out-of-control project, against the wishes of the people?”

HS2 a Tory plan, well that's impressive work on their part as I thought it was Labour who first anounced it when they were in power!

 

[jon0844]

If you want something to be hated, imply it's a plan by the 'nasty party'. Job done. Every left wing website and blog will back you.

 

[RhysTheBeast]

Will HS2 be further extended to Glasgow and Edinburgh? I would imagine there would be a good case for this. Apologies if this has already been discussed, I am new here.

 

[HowardGWR]

Will HS2 be further extended to Glasgow and Edinburgh? I would imagine there would be a good case for this. Apologies if this has already been discussed, I am new here.

Don't worry and welcome. Big benefits are indeed likely to be gained when a Scottish connection is made. If you use the 'search thread' function on this thread with the cities you mentioned, you will find quite a lot on that. It's just up on the right.

 

[RhysTheBeast]

Don't worry and welcome. Big benefits are indeed likely to be gained when a Scottish connection is made. If you use the 'search thread' function on this thread with the cities you mentioned, you will find quite a lot on that. It's just up on the right.

Many thanks. Looking forwards to all the discussions on here. I have a real interest in the rail infrastructure around Manchester, and the potential plans and projects for the future.

 

[dggar]

To RhysTheBeast

The avavtar you have chosen is already in use

http://www.railforums.co.uk/member.php?u=9957

It might be confusing if you continue to use it.

 

[Nym]

To RhysTheBeast

The avavtar you have chosen is already in use

http://www.railforums.co.uk/member.php?u=9957

It might be confusing if you continue to use it.

There are many users with that avatar, although I can claim to have a unique one, many can't...

Eagle and Cryus Wuff can as well I beleive

 

[HowardGWR]

There are many users with that avatar, although I can claim to have a unique one, many can't...

Eagle and Cryus Wuff can as well I believe

Well, I would not notice it, as I suppressed all that rubbish. You can do that somewhere but I've forgotten where.

 

[RhysTheBeast]

To RhysTheBeast

The avavtar you have chosen is already in use

http://www.railforums.co.uk/member.php?u=9957

It might be confusing if you continue to use it.

Maybe, though there are other members with the same avatar. I could argue though that my username should one bother to read it, is unique!

 

[jones_bangor]

According to today's Telegraph:
"The scathing HS2 report ministers want to hide"......
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10518484/The-scathing-HS2-report-ministers-want-to-hide.html

Although I think a lot of it's been discussed, quotation from the above linked article;

"......even in the busiest hour of the morning peak, long-distance trains arriving at Euston were only 64.2 per cent full — and suburban and regional trains 77.3 per cent full, making Euston the least crowded London terminus. Across the evening peak, long-distance trains were 56.8 per cent full. "

 

[Nym]

According to today's Telegraph:
"The scathing HS2 report ministers want to hide"......
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10518484/The-scathing-HS2-report-ministers-want-to-hide.html

Although I think a lot of it's been discussed, quotation from the above linked article;

"......even in the busiest hour of the morning peak, long-distance trains arriving at Euston were only 64.2 per cent full — and suburban and regional trains 77.3 per cent full, making Euston the least crowded London terminus. Across the evening peak, long-distance trains were 56.8 per cent full. "

That would be the damand managment working well then, how about the 1857, 1900 and 1920 departures from Euston?

Also, do they mention the arrivals into Kings Cross and St Pancras in the AM Peak?

 

[GatwickDepress]

A lot of London Midland passengers do alight at Watford Junction for suburban services towards Clapham Junction via Kensington (Olympia) and London Overground services. Perhaps Euston isn't the best benchmark?

 

[jon0844]

According to today's Telegraph:
"The scathing HS2 report ministers want to hide"......
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10518484/The-scathing-HS2-report-ministers-want-to-hide.html

Although I think a lot of it's been discussed, quotation from the above linked article;

"......even in the busiest hour of the morning peak, long-distance trains arriving at Euston were only 64.2 per cent full — and suburban and regional trains 77.3 per cent full, making Euston the least crowded London terminus. Across the evening peak, long-distance trains were 56.8 per cent full. "

Besides, unsurprisingly, this being YET ANOTHER Andrew Gilligan story - what's the problem? HS2 isn't going to be open for a good few years, so are we meant to wait until every single train is at 100% capacity?

Do we then say 'Oh dear! Not one more person can get on a train. Perhaps now we ought to build a new line'?

I can't speak for Euston but know that at King's Cross, there was one a number of services included in the top 10 most crowded services table - and now, I believe, after a major overhaul of the timetable with certain train strengthened, stopping patterns adjusted and so on, there's no longer a single train in the top 10.

But that doesn't mean we can sit back and relax. We've merely bought a bit of spare capacity until passenger numbers increase beyond what we can then manage. I can't see FCC ever being able to run anything longer than 12-cars, and we all know that the first trains at the end of the evening peak are often rammed.