High Speed Two (HS2) discussion

[HowardGWR]

That's a very bizarre article. It seems to hint at an EU plot, then wastes hundreds of words demolishing the theory, and then concludes that maybe it is.

Or isn't.

Perhaps.

Thanks for the link. I had not looked at this site previously but if this is the standard then the pros have little to fear. As a transport enthusiast, I am quite interested in the TEN-T developments but i cannot imagine that anyone they would wish to recruit to their cause would have the slightest interest.

 

[The Ham]

I have seen some drivel on the stop HS2 website before but this takes the biscuit! :roll:

http://stophs2.org/news/9772-so-hs2-driven-eu

Like the artical says it was added to the TEN-T maps in 2011, however HS2 was a labour policy whilst it was in power (i.e. before the 2010 general election). In other words TEN-T just saw that a faster route was proposed and added it the list. Rather than being pushed through by the EU.

Using the StopHS2 logic the Ordinace Survey push through road schemes as they are added to their mapping before they actually are under construction.

 

[tbtc]

They do like their anti EU rhetoric! I doubt many of them really believe it but they use it to appeal to UKIP.

Thats a fantastic bit of "whataboutery" - trying to tie HS2 into some "big bad EU" propaganda, despite the fact that if HS2 was all part of some "Eurocrat conspiracy" then the link from HS2 to HS1 would be a lot larger and HS2 would go to Ireland (to provide a Marseilles - Dublin link).

But we all know how it works - all you need to do is link two things in a headline and then cobble together an article that blathers on and on without proving a proper link between them - people will base their opinions from the headline.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I can do it too! It is really easy.

We have just culled loads of badgers and a typhoon hit the Philippines.

Headline,
UK Badger Cull causes Misery in Philippines as huge Typhoon sweeps across islands.

 

[tbtc]

I can do it too! It is really easy.

We have just culled loads of badgers and a typhoon hit the Philippines.

Headline,
UK Badger Cull causes Misery in Philippines as huge Typhoon sweeps across islands.

Sorry, I don't have time to read down to the last paragraph, where you admit that the two events are unrelated, but I'm going to come away with the two things linked together in my mind.

This is how journalism works, right?

 

[WessexEclectic]

That's a very bizarre article. It seems to hint at an EU plot, then wastes hundreds of words demolishing the theory, and then concludes that maybe it is.

Or isn't.

Perhaps.

It's called being hidden in plain sight.

What is new is that by extracting the Core routes from the rest of the Comprehensive network, and putting them under this new, separate governance instrument, the integration of HS2 with the rest of the classic network will be both more difficult and even lower priority than the current HS2 proposals for integration, which are weak enough.

What is new is that the role of the UK Government will be reduced to one of many stakeholders on the governance forum for Corridor 8.15

What is new is that changing UK governments will not be able to change their transport priorities in relation to Corridor 8. TEN-T policy has been “secured”.

What is new is that the Conservative Government, despite Cameron’s political wish to repatriate powers from the EC back to the UK will not be able to do this. His Government is next week signing up to a policy that will do the reverse – give more powers to the EU over transport.

In Europe, Democracy is an offer you can't refuse.

 

[The Ham]

Headline,
UK Badger Cull causes Misery in Philippines as huge Typhoon sweeps across islands.

That must be true as the UK government is sending so much aid there.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That must be true as the UK government is sending so much aid there.

And there you go, further evidence i sense the Daily Mail might see this and it will be on tommorrows papers.

 

[Snapper]

Last nights Hs2 Paving Bill debate was very interesting to listen to, although, sadly few people will have bothered. It demonstrated how much railway knowledge & experience there is in that House. 12 Lords spoke in favour and only 4 against.

The Hansard report is here; http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhansrd/text/131119-0002.htm#13111971000186

Needless to say, the Bill was passed & now goes for Royal Assent.

Meanwhile, the Hs2 Hybrid Bill will be introduced in Parliament on Monday.

The anti Hs2 mob are trying to organise a demonstration outside Parliament at the same time. It's going to be a bit of a Kamikaze event as it will expose how few people really support them (as opposed to grumbling about the cost of Hs2 in opinion polls). Unlike Twitter, which they pack with dozens of sock puppet accounts!

The numbers attending are likely to be pathetically small. Considering they claim 500k homes are 'blighted' by Hs2, all they've managed to arrange is 3 coaches! http://stophs2.org/news/9760-lobby-day-transport-details

 

[jon0844]

Three coaches? Haha!

This isn't going to be a repeat of the anti-Iraq marches in 2003 is it (and the Government totally ignored all of them).

A couple of hundred people spouting nonsense about business cases and pollution, or any other emotive argument, will probably not even be heard over the noise of passing buses, cars and taxis.

 

[Deerfold]

<please ignore>

 

[jon0844]

<please ignore>

Was that you wishing to remove something you'd written, or a reference to what people will be doing when 40 or 50 NIMBYs descend on London?

 

[Deerfold]

Was that you wishing to remove something you'd written, or a reference to what people will be doing when 40 or 50 NIMBYs descend on London?

Yes.

(Didn't think it had posted what I'd written as that was based on a misreading).

Btw I think it's 4 coaches and a handful of chums meeting up for a weekend commute.

 

[Geezertronic]

I don't see why the StopHS2 mob can't catch the train, surely they have missed a trick to prove that existing services are sufficient rather than causing more pollution by catching coaches

Here's hoping that the M6, M1 & M25 are it's usual slow self on the day they travel

 

[JamesRowden]

I don't see why the StopHS2 mob can't catch the train, surely they have missed a trick to prove that existing services are sufficient rather than causing more pollution by catching coaches

Here's hoping that the M6, M1 & M25 are it's usual slow self on the day they travel

Perhaps they plan to travel at 30mph down the motorways in order to demonstrate that they believe that low speed is best.

 

[jon0844]

It would be so funny if they turned up late due to traffic, or advised people to meet nice and early to beat the jams without realising the irony!

 

[WessexEclectic]

Two rails good, four rails better!
Two rails good, four rails better!
Two rails good, four rails better!

 

[HowardGWR]

Well, this is a better try (see earlier discussion on 'costing the AONB').

http://www.thametoday.co.uk/news/lo...and-social-cost-of-hs2-on-chilterns-1-5699497

I don't know how to embed the photos so you will have to go to the link, sorry mods.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The picture they use is just fields on relatively flat land... hardly AONB material.

 

[43074]

Well, this is a better try (see earlier discussion on 'costing the AONB').

http://www.thametoday.co.uk/news/lo...and-social-cost-of-hs2-on-chilterns-1-5699497

I don't know how to embed the photos so you will have to go to the link, sorry mods.

There you go.

I actually think the HS2 viaduct near Wendover (pictured) will look quite impressive, even if not Ribblehead-esque in terms of design.

 

[jon0844]

That looks really nice!

 

[YorkshireBear]

That looks really nice!

They needed to pick a better example really didn't they? I think that adds to the environment.

 

[Ironside]

There you go.

I actually think the HS2 viaduct near Wendover (pictured) will look quite impressive, even if not Ribblehead-esque in terms of design.

As you say not ribblehead, but lighter on the the landscape and very sleak and good looking!

 

[Snapper]

The one thing the Chiltern NIMBYs never mention is the make-up of their 'sacred' AONB. Only 5% of the Chilterns is virgin landscape untouched by man. Their AONB is 95% man-made....

 

[YorkshireBear]

The one thing the Chiltern NIMBYs never mention is the make-up of their 'sacred' AONB. Only 5% of the Chilterns is virgin landscape untouched by man. Their AONB is 95% man-made....

My lecturer explained to me that the entire UK is actually man made there is no wilderness left, only places we have left.

But your point still stands and it is very valid.

 

[Ironside]

HS2 paving bill gets Royal assent!

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/11/21/hs2-act-given-royal-assent/

 

[pablo]

Those two photos do beg the question why the railway can't be re-aligned along the valley bottom, in front of the far woods, to avoid this structure altogether.
Probably the knock-on effects up and down the alignment. Can anyone pin-pont it on HS2's drawings?

 

[Ironside]

Those twp photos do beg the question why the railway can't be re-aligned along the valley bottom, in front of the far woods, to avoid this structure altogether.
Probably the knock-on effects up and down the alignment. Can anyone pin-pont it on HS2's drawings?

I don't know where it is but the viaduct is there for the reason you mention and also consider that hs2 is built above the 1000 year flood plane.

 

[swt_passenger]

Those two photos do beg the question why the railway can't be re-aligned along the valley bottom, in front of the far woods, to avoid this structure altogether.
Probably the knock-on effects up and down the alignment. Can anyone pin-pont it on HS2's drawings?

It might be the one at the left hand of this drawing, I reckon - I think the line of pylons is visible in the pictures above:

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/hs2-maps-20120110/hs2arp00drrw05008issue3.pdf

 

[YorkshireBear]

It might be the one at the left hand of this drawing, I reckon:

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/hs2-maps-20120110/hs2arp00drrw05008issue3.pdf

I think so too, and that explains why there is a viaduct as it is below existing ground level for the rest of that area.