High Speed Two (HS2) discussion

[samxool]

Railway prices only ever go up. Especially with current government policy. I'm still awaiting why some people think rail fares will go down if hs2 is built?
Especially as Hs2 will cost at least £50bn
There's been no evidence of this posted yet, just some wildly optimistic pie in the sky wishful thinking.

 

[The Ham]

I'm sorry to hear that you suffer from Dyslexia, although thankfully it does appear to be a mild form of the condition. Having said that I have noticed that you are unable to spell the condition. Never the less you might find that spell check is helpful when posting comments here.

It's not that bad, but also I'm mostly good at hidding it as I had a good level of support at secondary school. My Dyslexia only affects my spelling, but does seam to provide me other advantages in that as I read by shapes of words rather than spelling I can read a page of text any way up.

 

[Manchester77]

Man on north west today saying instead of building HS2 we should lengthen the existing 9 car trains to 11 and 12 cars. I assume he's talking about the pendos. I guess he doesn't get you'd need to lengthen all the platforms or end up reducing the capacity with increased dwel times
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Based on that I wonder how long it is before someone seriously suggested using 12 car 350s to get more capacity...

 

[NSEFAN]

Railway prices only ever go up. Especially with current government policy. I'm still awaiting why some people think rail fares will go down if hs2 is built?
Especially as Hs2 will cost at least £50bn
There's been no evidence of this posted yet, just some wildly optimistic pie in the sky wishful thinking.

It's simple supply and demand economics. Currently there's too much demand for the supply of railway capacity. Once HS2 opens there will be a step increase in capacity on London-Birmingham/Leeds/Manchester flows, so the balance between supply and demand will be shifted. Prices will change accordingly.

The only reason prices only ever go up on average at the moment is because there's few new services being added in many places but there's more and more people using the trains every year. Even if HS2 doesn't cause a drop in rail fares, it should at the very least slow down the rate at which fares go up every year.

 

[edwin_m]

Man on north west today saying instead of building HS2 we should lengthen the existing 9 car trains to 11 and 12 cars. I assume he's talking about the pendos. I guess he doesn't get you'd need to lengthen all the platforms or end up reducing the capacity with increased dwel times
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Based on that I wonder how long it is before someone seriously suggested using 12 car 350s to get more capacity...

Nor does he realise that a large part of the Pendo fleet (those used on the busiest services) has already been lengthened to 11 cars. I think that's about the longest possible without widespread platform lengthening.

 

[WatcherZero]

Railway prices only ever go up. Especially with current government policy. I'm still awaiting why some people think rail fares will go down if hs2 is built?
Especially as Hs2 will cost at least £50bn
There's been no evidence of this posted yet, just some wildly optimistic pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Try the Taxpayers Alliance, they believe if HS2 is built there will be £10bn less in fare revenue due to price competition and that is a bad thing. :roll:

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/

 

[Deerfold]

Railway prices only ever go up. Especially with current government policy. I'm still awaiting why some people think rail fares will go down if hs2 is built?

Try reading back a few pages. Plenty of people have explained their reasoning.

Incidentally, rail prices fell in real terms (and in at least one year in actual prices) in the first few years after privatisation.

Especially as Hs2 will cost at least £50bn
There's been no evidence of this posted yet, just some wildly optimistic pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Well the budget is £42.6 bn including a large contingency fund, so I'm not sure why you think it'll be at least £50 bn - some evidence would be useful.

 

[HowardGWR]

Nor does he realise that a large part of the Pendo fleet (those used on the busiest services) has already been lengthened to 11 cars. I think that's about the longest possible without widespread platform lengthening.

If we keep on lengthening the trains you will be able to get in by the buffers at Piccadilly, walk through the train and get out at Euston.

 

[jon0844]

If we keep on lengthening the trains you will be able to get in by the buffers at Piccadilly, walk through the train and get out at Euston.

By the time you walk to Crewe, you'd be in first class and have to pay more to keep walking though.

 

[Deerfold]

By the time you walk to Crewe, you'd be in first class and have to pay more to keep walking though.

That's an awfully large percentage of the train being 1st class...

 

[jon0844]

That's an awfully large percentage of the train being 1st class...

That's Virgin Trains for you!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the Radio 4 news headlines at 1500 today, HS2 was referred to as "a 50 billion pound project" by the newsreader.

 

[Geezertronic]

In the Radio 4 news headlines at 1500 today, HS2 was referred to as "a 50 billion pound project" by the newsreader.

That's probably the first thing that Sir David Higgins should concentrate on in my opinion - the misinformation (and scaremongering) that is presented as fact around the HS2 project

 

[Clip]

The organisation that I run often receives applications from Graduates when we are looking to fill positions. All too often their command of the English language is appalling and I'm sorry but and some people just really dont care as long as you can understand what they are saying is simply not good enough. Suffice to say that kind of attitude won't get anybody anywhere, certainly not if you're looking to have a successful career. There can be no excuse for laziness and not being bothered to use a spell check function.

I just cant be bothered with you.. How can what you scribble on the internet have any bearing your career I do not know. LOL

have another 'golf clap'.

 

[Deerfold]

I just cant be bothered with you.. How can what you scribble on the internet have any bearing your career I do not know. LOL

have another 'golf clap'.

This site does request people try to use correct spelling as far as is possible.

The worse it is, the harder it is to understand what people are trying to say - there are threads on here I despair of understanding some posts.

You have not descibed what a "golf clap" is. I also have no idea.

 

[Clip]

This site does request people try to use correct spelling as far as is possible.

The worse it is, the harder it is to understand what people are trying to say - there are threads on here I despair of understanding some posts.

You have not descibed what a "golf clap" is. I also have no idea.

They do, but the last part of that sentence is the salient part. Soime people cant spell and some are in a hurry to pop in and post. As long as it is legible and you can see what it means give or take a few letters then where is the harm? Its not like this place is the same as studying for a degree or going for a job is it? So why pick up on peoples spelling or grammar?

Anyway this is vering right off topic, but slow quiet clapping is what a golf clap is. And its very sarcastic when used as I did.

Anyway back on topic, Ive been reading other forums and some people are now claiming its going to cost £80Bn. The govt really needs to get on this and quickly to denounce all these issues surrounding costs and let the public know what its going to cost. No point everyone following Ed Balls lead and just adding money to it for no reason whatsoever.

 

[RichmondCommu]

They do, but the last part of that sentence is the salient part. Soime people cant spell and some are in a hurry to pop in and post. As long as it is legible and you can see what it means give or take a few letters then where is the harm? Its not like this place is the same as studying for a degree or going for a job is it? So why pick up on peoples spelling or grammar?

The point is it only takes a couple of minutes to type correctly and if an individual can't be bothered to do that on a forum, who's to say that they will up their act in another setting? Posters cannot hope to be taken seriously if they use poor grammar / spelling.

Anyway this is vering right off topic, but slow quiet clapping is what a golf clap is. And its very sarcastic when used as I did.

So sarcastic and obvious that you had to explain it's meaning to everyone else.

 

[Deerfold]

The point is it only takes a couple of minutes to type correctly and if an individual can't be bothered to do that on forum, who's to say that they will up their act in another setting? Posters cannot hope to be taken seriously if they use poor grammar / spelling.

I generally take less notice of posts in inverse proportion to their legibility / correct spelling / grammar.

So sarcastic and obvious that you had to explain it's meaning to everyone else.

"its meaning" - no apostrophe in a possesive "its".

 

[RichmondCommu]

I generally take less notice of posts in inverse proportion to their legibility / correct spelling / grammar.



"its meaning" - no apostrophe in a possesive "its".

Oh crumbs! I stand corrected

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Now then, let us remember what subject matter this thread actually concerns as its theme....HS2 refers to "High Speed"...not "Historical Spelling"...

"Blessed are the spellcheckers, for they shall give forth lexicological truth"

 

[jon0844]

I was starting to think it stood for Handbag Swinging.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Railway prices only ever go up. Especially with current government policy. I'm still awaiting why some people think rail fares will go down if hs2 is built? Especially as HS2 will cost at least £50bn

There's been no evidence of this posted yet, just some wildly optimistic pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Yet another example above of the £50bn cost that BBC Radio 4 referred to in both the 1500 and the 1600 news headlines this afternoon.

 

[Deerfold]

Yet another example above of the £50bn cost that BBC Radio 4 referred to in both the 1500 and the 1600 news headlines this afternoon.

They appear to be adding £7.5bn for rolling stock.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24278772

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was starting to think it stood for Handbag Swinging.

As ever, you see the different, but equally incisive, definition of HS to the "spelling" that I referred to in my earlier posting, as that was a quoted bone of contention in previous postings.

However, I claim victory in this instance as my posting was ended by one of the famous Paul Sidorczuk "beatitudes"..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They appear to be adding £7.5bn for rolling stock.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24278772

Exactly which body will be responsible for the financial outlay for this rolling stock ?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I was starting to think it stood for Handbag Swinging.

If there was an award for 'Post Of The Day', you sir would win it with that entry! Made me laugh

 

[The Ham]

I was starting to think it stood for Handbag Swinging.

Wasn't that the past time of one of our past PM's?

 

[HSTEd]

I don't think its fair to account for the cost of the Rolling stock as being required by the project. Since the Class 390s clearly aren't going to go on forever.

And while €30m for a 200m Duplex trainset sounds like a lot, that is a trainset with 545 seats, which is alot.
€30m is £25m which is roughly what a Class 390 would cost newbuild for the same number of seats.

 

[Manchester77]

Pete waterman has just done a very good piece on HS2 idk if it'll be on iPlayer or anything but if re shown it'd be well worth the watch!

 

[Philip Elliott]

It's simple supply and demand economics. Currently there's too much demand for the supply of railway capacity. Once HS2 opens there will be a step increase in capacity on London-Birmingham/Leeds/Manchester flows, so the balance between supply and demand will be shifted. Prices will change accordingly.

The only reason prices only ever go up on average at the moment is because there's few new services being added in many places but there's more and more people using the trains every year. Even if HS2 doesn't cause a drop in rail fares, it should at the very least slow down the rate at which fares go up every year.

You're not even remotely close. 'Supply and demand economics' is primary school stuff and only applies in certain situations (such as music concerts). Before any notion of 'supply and demand' can exist, a company must be able to cover it costs. In many niche industries, prices are high because demand is low - the very opposite of the standard supply and demand model.

The railway doesn't cover it's cost and it is government policy to reduce the subsidy therefore the TOCs are obligated to extract as much revenue as they can. Prices have risen on all routes including those cart fresh air around all the time so the notion that pricing is linked to lack of capacity. In fact, most TOCs offer cheap advance tickets owing to plenty of spare capacity and on VT, the average fare paid has gone down despite all the walk up fares going up.

 

[jon0844]

Just watched BBC Look East and the Taxpayers Alliance is claiming the WCML has plenty of capacity and we don't need a new line at all.

Are they serious?!