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High Speed Two (HS2) discussion

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Grumpy

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In the grand scheme of things, the Dome was never about creating a large number of jobs



What point are you trying to make here?



.

Re the Dome it was just an illustration of something that would have created engineering and other jobs at the time, so , like the other examples, would have created wealth in London. Shame it cost the taxpayer a billion. But again this is a National project, supposedly for all the citizens of the UK to enjoy so where do they locate it-somewhere where people throughout the UK might be able to get to in a few hours drive? Not likely-has to be in South East London. Don't want the likes of Wolverhampton or Wigan getting ideas.
Similar comments apply re the Olympics , Wembley, and the other examples given.

With regard to the other point you picked, I have no idea why you selected only one sentence and put part of it in bold, whatever were you assuming? My point was that London is an increasingly unattractive place for many in the North, and other cities in Europe provide a better general experience and value. Many domestic flights have been killed off, significantly due to
APD imposed by the London Government and many northern travellers have switched to using overseas hubs, again where they get better service and value, rather than Heathrow. London's losing its relevance with most of the new laws and regulations that affect us coming from Brussels or other International bodies. Cutting APD to encourage better flights to commercial centres in Europe and beyond would do more for the Northern economy than HS2
 
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tbtc

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With regard to the other point you picked, I have no idea why you selected only one sentence and put part of it in bold, whatever were you assuming? My point was that London is an increasingly unattractive place for many in the North, and other cities in Europe provide a better general experience and value. Many domestic flights have been killed off, significantly due to
APD imposed by the London Government and many northern travellers have switched to using overseas hubs, again where they get better service and value, rather than Heathrow. London's losing its relevance with most of the new laws and regulations that affect us coming from Brussels or other International bodies. Cutting APD to encourage better flights to commercial centres in Europe and beyond would do more for the Northern economy than HS2

...but you didn't mention airport taxes in your previous post, you mentioned that apparently fewer people in London could speak English (than in Dusseldorf). I still can't understand what you'd mean by this.
 

Grumpy

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AIUI the Captive trains are going to be (roughly) 400m long (which HS2 infrastructure will be built to cope with), whilst the Classic Compatible ones will be (roughly) 200m long - so equivalent to a 10x20m/ 9x23m train, which is roughly as long as most current stations could cope with.
.

Yes, the platforms might be 400m long, but the trains can be any length you want, irrespective of whether Captive or classic. You can presumably mix and match to suit the commercial requirement. You could have a 200m long Captive train or a 400m Classic if you wished.

My point was why buy any Captives if they don't give you any more seating than a comparable Classic, when the classic gives you much more flexibility and the possibility of longer order runs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
...but you didn't mention airport taxes in your previous post, you mentioned that apparently fewer people in London could speak English (than in Dusseldorf). I still can't understand what you'd mean by this.

30 years ago people viewed London as the capital city where all the levers of power were located and the natural order was to have "national" meetings in London at Headquarters. We were all the same country and someone from the North would readily feel (almost) at home. Walk round London now, listen to the languages used and it's not the same country.

Nowadays London's lost its eminence. The European parliament has more power over us than the London Parliament. Many companies are now foreign owned. Headquarters isn't in London. Meetings at "HQ" or with trading partners are increasingly likely to be in Europe and the language used English. That's the continuing trend and the future.
 

edwin_m

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AIUI the Captive trains are going to be (roughly) 400m long (which HS2 infrastructure will be built to cope with), whilst the Classic Compatible ones will be (roughly) 200m long - so equivalent to a 10x20m/ 9x23m train, which is roughly as long as most current stations could cope with.

It is likely that the Captive sets will also be 200m long, but able to run in pairs as happens with TGVs. This is a standard length for high speed trains as defined in European specifications.
 

IKBrunel

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30 years ago people viewed London as the capital city where all the levers of power were located and the natural order was to have "national" meetings in London at Headquarters. We were all the same country and someone from the North would readily feel (almost) at home. Walk round London now, listen to the languages used and it's not the same country.

Nowadays London's lost its eminence. The European parliament has more power over us than the London Parliament. Many companies are now foreign owned. Headquarters isn't in London. Meetings at "HQ" or with trading partners are increasingly likely to be in Europe and the language used English. That's the continuing trend and the future.

this sounds more like a pamphlet of the xenophobe society (aka ukip) than anything to do with HS2.
 

clc

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It is likely that the Captive sets will also be 200m long, but able to run in pairs as happens with TGVs. This is a standard length for high speed trains as defined in European specifications.

So does that mean the captives have no performance or capacity advantage over the CC's?
 
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Has anyone read John Prescott's piece in the Mirror on HS2 today? I can't figure if he is arguing for HS2 to be scrapped and the money spent elsewhere or supporting HS2 alongside upgrades to existing lines as well.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-column-wait-till-2670445

Personally I think the chances of Labour withdrawing support for HS2 are much diminished now, Ed Balls badly underestimated the level of support the scheme has amongst Northern MP's and council leaders and if a decision is made next spring as Prescott suggests then Ed Milliband will not want to split the Labour party over the issue with just over a year till the next general election.
 

Grumpy

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this sounds more like a pamphlet of the xenophobe society (aka ukip) than anything to do with HS2.

Meant to be quite the opposite.
The suggestion was that the North needs to look to Europe and beyond for its future prosperity, not London. Therefore needs money spending on better airline links there, not more trains to London.
 

HSTEd

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Yes, the platforms might be 400m long, but the trains can be any length you want, irrespective of whether Captive or classic. You can presumably mix and match to suit the commercial requirement. You could have a 200m long Captive train or a 400m Classic if you wished.

My point was why buy any Captives if they don't give you any more seating than a comparable Classic, when the classic gives you much more flexibility and the possibility of longer order runs.
.

Because Captives will be cheaper per seat, and you can pack far more capacity into a Captive set because it can be double deck.

And ordering 400m Classic trains would be pointless since there are almost no platforms anywhere long enough to take them.

It is likely that the Captive sets will also be 200m long, but able to run in pairs as happens with TGVs. This is a standard length for high speed trains as defined in European specifications.

But is completely pointless on journeys as short as those in the UK.

It makes sense when you have journeys of 4 hours or more which means peak strengthening will only effect a relatively small proportion of the total number of trainsets.

But when your trainsets will be cycling every 2 hours (for Birmingham) or ~3 hours (for the other captive destinations) you end up having to strengthen a rather large portion of the fleet and thanks to the infrastructural concerns you can't detach the second set in the off peak because of the number of moves you need, unless you want to leave it standing ina platform that has been purchased at great expense.

Better to just have unitary 400m formations running around (as they do in Japan) and then dump the 'excess' off peak tickets at ridiculously low prices. This saves a whole catering crew and allows for additional capacity thanks to not having the interior ends, especially if using TGV Duplex style sets instead of single decker EMUs.
 

tbtc

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Has anyone read John Prescott's piece in the Mirror on HS2 today? I can't figure if he is arguing for HS2 to be scrapped and the money spent elsewhere or supporting HS2 alongside upgrades to existing lines as well.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-column-wait-till-2670445


Hmm - easy for Lord Prescott to say "there are far better ways of spending those billions", but what else?

One of the top comments below the article suggests the Great Central (whilst not appreciating that it doesn't go near Birmingham, wouldn't be fast enough to divert most current services via, would need to demolish a lot of land in the Chilterns and London or substantially cut existing services from Aylesbury etc to London), but I suppose thats par for the course.
 
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Hmm - easy for Lord Prescott to say "there are far better ways of spending those billions", but what else?

One of the top comments below the article suggests the Great Central (whilst not appreciating that it doesn't go near Birmingham, wouldn't be fast enough to divert most current services via, would need to demolish a lot of land in the Chilterns and London or substantially cut existing services from Aylesbury etc to London), but I suppose thats par for the course.

I think the idea of reopening the Great Central as a freight railway from Banbury -> Rugby -> just south of Leicester and putting in a junction to the MML has some merit but as an alternative to HS2 you're quite right it a non-starter.
 

The Planner

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Next to sod all freight goes that way though. All the terminals tend to be West Mids or North West.
 

HSTEd

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If you were going to build a freight dedicated railway from Felixstowe (and maybe Tilbury) to the terminals in the North West it would be a single track construction with very long passing loops (mile long or more) and go via a route that took it east of Spalding and so on.

As far from intervening population centres, and the attendant NIMBYs, as possible and along a flat route without many bridges.
 

HSTEd

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Out of curiosity how much freight does go along the WCML especially the London -> Rugby section?

Quite a bit, but most of it is coming from Felixstowe or similar and is routed via the NLL due to not being able to use electric traction on the cross country route.
 
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Quite a bit, but most of it is coming from Felixstowe or similar and is routed via the NLL due to not being able to use electric traction on the cross country route.

So we'd be better electrifying that route and sending it that way instead freeing up capacity on the WCML, NLL ad GEML at the same time :p
 

HSTEd

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So we'd be better electrifying that route and sending it that way instead freeing up capacity on the WCML, NLL ad GEML at the same time :p

Unfortunately even those trains don't add up to more than a dozen or so trains a day.
Just enough to cause serious issues on the NLL and (soon) the GOBLIN, but not enough to actually justify electrification.
 

edwin_m

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But is completely pointless on journeys as short as those in the UK.

It makes sense when you have journeys of 4 hours or more which means peak strengthening will only effect a relatively small proportion of the total number of trainsets.

But when your trainsets will be cycling every 2 hours (for Birmingham) or ~3 hours (for the other captive destinations) you end up having to strengthen a rather large portion of the fleet and thanks to the infrastructural concerns you can't detach the second set in the off peak because of the number of moves you need, unless you want to leave it standing ina platform that has been purchased at great expense.

Better to just have unitary 400m formations running around (as they do in Japan) and then dump the 'excess' off peak tickets at ridiculously low prices. This saves a whole catering crew and allows for additional capacity thanks to not having the interior ends, especially if using TGV Duplex style sets instead of single decker EMUs.

The HS2 timetable includes some splitting and joining of sets, mainly because of the capacity constraints on the London-Birmingham section. And some workings, such as those northwards from Birmingham, are proposed to be single 200m sets. So there is some justification for having 200m sets, although if there is a major cost saving in ordering some or all as 400m then that could be done instead.

I don't see that peak strengthening is impossible, although it may be in London because of capacity constraints and the lack of a nearby depot. But Birmingham will have a depot about five minutes travel time away and there are depots tens of minutes away from Manchester and Leeds. On these sections there should be enough capacity to shuttle empty workings to and from depot during the shoulder peaks, and all station platforms are specified to be long enough to split or join a double set.

The TGV Duplex configuration has power cars at each end (and I think also motored bogies in each adjacent "trailer") but each set is only 200m long. A notional 400m Duplex would therefore need four power cars, so doesn't give any extra capacity over two 200m sets. Unless these power cars could be put in pairs at either end or given through gangways, there would be no access through the train. Having all equipment underfloor may well be the reason why single deck is assumed at present, but we do now have some double deck EMUs for suburban duties and maybe these will become available as high speed stock before anything is ordered for HS2.
 

HowardGWR

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this sounds more like a pamphlet of the xenophobe society (aka ukip) than anything to do with HS2.

Eh? i thought it was the opposite -read again?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Meant to be quite the opposite.
The suggestion was that the North needs to look to Europe and beyond for its future prosperity, not London. Therefore needs money spending on better airline links there, not more trains to London.

Or a decent HS2 -HS1 link (or as well as what you suggest).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Unfortunately even those trains don't add up to more than a dozen or so trains a day.
Just enough to cause serious issues on the NLL and (soon) the GOBLIN, but not enough to actually justify electrification.

That can't be right. The articles I read in MR speak of many, many times that total (and Gateway to boot, not instead). It's the destination of incoming and the origin of outgoing that counts.
 

YorkshireBear

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Eh? i thought it was the opposite -read again?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Or a decent HS2 -HS1 link (or as well as what you suggest).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That can't be right. The articles I read in MR speak of many, many times that total (and Gateway to boot, not instead). It's the destination of incoming and the origin of outgoing that counts.

Three passed me in an hour the other week....
 

Wavertreelad

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And that once the Felixstowe traffic dries up, there will be lots from London Gateway.

I can't see all the traffic using Felixstowe currently approx. 2.5 million TEU PA being diverted to London Gateway. For one thing the existing facilities could not cope and with world trade unlikely to grow in the future at the levels when London Gateway was planned any further expansion could take an awful long time to reach Felixstowe current throughput which has taken over 40 years to achieve. However, I agree there will be switching of some traffic as the shipping lines play one port off against another to obtain the best rates and fastest turnarounds which could favour the Essex port which is supposedly not likely to be subject to high winds which plague Felixstowe and generally bring operations to a halt. With Thamesport loosing all it's deepsea container services this month, the second biggest movement of intermodal traffic will be from Southampton which of course will form one end of the electric spine. Tilbury has already lost one deep sea to London Gateway and others will no doubt follow in time as Tilbury cannot handle the latest generation of containership. Interestingly both Felixstowe and Southampton have for several years been charging £5.50 and £3.00 respectively for each laden import container moving through the port. In Felixstowe's case it is supposed to help pay for improvements to the road system including the A14 and Southampton is for the gauge enhancements which was introduced by the last government, but I think may be EU policy for new port developments.

However, there are several other factors that may also affect volumes through Felixstowe, London Gateway and Southampton in the coming years. Firstly, whilst all three ports are capable of handling the largest containerships afloat, 18000 teu, from early 2015 Liverpool2 will be capable of handling 14000 teu vessels and possibly larger and given it's geographical central position and proximity to areas of industrial production this could, affect future growth in the number of containers heading beyond Birmingham north. Secondly, the number of shipping lines is actually reducing as the costs of building these huge ships increases and chances of filling them profitably reduces. Further, rationalisation in this sector could result in fewer port calls in North Europe and could spell the end of some direct services from the UK. Given the EU is actively encouraging schemes to develop coastal shipping around the EU there is the prospect that some direct UK port calls could be replaced by feeder services to regional container ports and two of the largest shipping lines MSC and CMA-CGM have already established such links to Grangemouth, Tyne, Teesport, Immingham, Bristol and Greenock with the largest volume moving to Liverpool. Given that it is generally accepted that to move intermodal containers by rail is really only competitive over 200 miles when the local collection/delivery and lifting costs are taken into account many destinations could be more economical with a routing via Liverpool. Much however will depend on the lines attracted to Liverpool2, the mix of cargo and overseas markets served. In turn this will affect the number and locations to which intermodal trains could run so at this stage it is unclear to determine the volume and possible destinations of any intermodal services from the port.

Unlike Felixstowe, London Gateway and to a large degree Southampton which only handle containers, Liverpool has always promoted bulk cargoes and it is another area type of traffic that could be moved by rail, although here the likely destinations would like be a mix in all directions rather than on a simple north/south axis. Nevertheless, it is interesting to note the Peel Holdings, who operate the Port of Liverpool have expressed concerns on planned HS2 connection to Liverpool which does little to expand capacity for both passengers and freight.
 

Grumpy

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Or a decent HS2 -HS1 link (or as well as what you suggest).
.

I am not sold on the point of a HS1-2 LINK.
The flight time from Leeds-Dusseldorf involves being in the air for around 60 minutes. Amsterdam less. HS2 is going to take longer just to get as far as London. So in terms of journey time rail still wont be attractive. And I can fly to Dusseldorf for less than the peak rail fare to London now, so I cant see how hs1+hs2 through fares are going to be competitive.

I use Leeds as an example but I am sure the same applies to other Northern conurbations and European destinations.

It seems to me that the HS1-2 link is the modern successor to the class 92,overnight stock, north of London Eurostars etc on which so much money was squandered last time round. It seems like a good idea but...
 

HowardGWR

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I am not sold on the point of a HS1-2 LINK.
The flight time from Leeds-Dusseldorf involves being in the air for around 60 minutes. Amsterdam less. HS2 is going to take longer just to get as far as London. So in terms of journey time rail still wont be attractive. And I can fly to Dusseldorf for less than the peak rail fare to London now, so I cant see how hs1+hs2 through fares are going to be competitive.

I use Leeds as an example but I am sure the same applies to other Northern conurbations and European destinations.

It seems to me that the HS1-2 link is the modern successor to the class 92,overnight stock, north of London Eurostars etc on which so much money was squandered last time round. It seems like a good idea but...

If what you say were true, then the current HS1 service would not be successful. I agree with you that many well-heeled people will continue to use air where it gives a significant time advantage but I am sure there is a significant HS market for such as Brum to Brussels or Paris and so on.

We have to think about climate change new laws that will impose extra restrictions on flights. I believe the current 'competitive edge' will extend from 3 hours to 4 and that's without further tilting of the playing field.

We'll see - i appreciate your points of course.
 

HSTEd

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I don't see that peak strengthening is impossible, although it may be in London because of capacity constraints and the lack of a nearby depot. But Birmingham will have a depot about five minutes travel time away and there are depots tens of minutes away from Manchester and Leeds. On these sections there should be enough capacity to shuttle empty workings to and from depot during the shoulder peaks, and all station platforms are specified to be long enough to split or join a double set.

Perhaps you can shuttle empty workings, but then the question becomes why bother to weaken off peak sets?
High Speed trains are sufficiently low maintenance these days that the savings in not having an extra set (or sets) to cover maintenance outages are minor, and the extra drivers and paths you need to cover all these moves really adds up.

The marginal costs of having 400m formations at all time are marginal rolling stock maintenance and energy if you have continuous 400m formations that the existing train crew can provide services to. Those two things are rather minor items on the balance sheet of a high speed railway.

It also allows event crowds and the like to be swallowed up far more easily, even if we don't get a permanent demand uplift thanks to the huge availability of off peak seats.

The TGV Duplex configuration has power cars at each end (and I think also motored bogies in each adjacent "trailer") but each set is only 200m long. A notional 400m Duplex would therefore need four power cars, so doesn't give any extra capacity over two 200m sets.

As far as I know the TGV Duplex does not have motored axles under the end trailers, only the eight powered axles in the two power cars.
The only types of TGV that I am aware of with motored axles in the trailer formation are the Eurostar and the original Sud Est sets.

Unless these power cars could be put in pairs at either end or given through gangways, there would be no access through the train. Having all equipment underfloor may well be the reason why single deck is assumed at present, but we do now have some double deck EMUs for suburban duties and maybe these will become available as high speed stock before anything is ordered for HS2.

The V150 demonstrates that it is in theory feasible to fit powered axles under the Duplex vehicles, and apparently possibly even a transformer, although I would not like to rely on that.

In either case, to match the tractive effort of the TGV Duplex you will need 16 powered axles, uprating of the power cars would enable the power to be distributed more unevenly but you should still easily be able to maintain the required TSI accelerations.

Eight of your powered axles would be in the end power cars, four more could be provided by the end bogies of the trailer formation, leaving only four more powered axles to be located.

These could either be the next bogies in from each end of the trailer formation, in which case the transformers in the power cars could feed them, or they could be positioned near the centre of the formation with a transformer squeezed into the trailer like it was on the V150.

I myself would recommend using the buffet vehicle since if any interior volume is needed it can be provided without causing problems for passengers.

EDIT:

If the platforms are specified to be long enough to split and join a double set does that mean they are longer than 400m?

How much longer? I might be able to fit in another trailer which improves capacity (albeit marginally) even further.....
 
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YorkshireBear

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What i meant was that traffic from Felixstowe that we are going to move to the cross country route once more and more routes are cleared will be replaced on the WCML south by rail traffic from London Gateway.

All i was pointing out is any reduction in Felixstowe freight will quickly be replaced.

Was not referring to shipping traffic.
 

Chris125

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It seems to me that the HS1-2 link is the modern successor to the class 92,overnight stock, north of London Eurostars etc on which so much money was squandered last time round. It seems like a good idea but...

Actually I think it's real value will be in allowing International services to terminate at Old Oak Common - an ideal interchange for those west of the capital especially if fully integrated with the NLL and WLL, with the possibility of terminating at Heathrow should the branch be built.

Chris
 

Tobbes

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There was something in Modern Railways (last month?) about possible freight enhancements for intermodal from Felixstowe to the midlands / NW. The basis of the Ipswich North (Bacon Factory) Chord is indeed to avoid frieghtliners going down GEML, across the NLL and up the bottom end of the WCML. But I understood from Londonreconnections that the paths thus released would be gobbled up by London Gateway trains running over an electrified GOBLIN.

What was more interesting was the idea that by 2030(ish) the number of intermodals from Felixstowe / Harwich would quadruple. If this were to happen, then electrifying and resignalling the route through Bury St Eds to March and Peterborough would be essential. With these sorts of tonnages, it would be much more sensible to have a largely freight (and electrified) route away from the ECML: say hello to the revamped GN/GE joint.

If we were to couple March - Spalding reinstatement to the Spalding - Lincoln - Doncaster upgrade (and electrification) would significantly reduce the impact of this much freight on the ECML, especially south of York. With HS2 Phase 2, this will be important as for stations north of York it will quicker to London via Leeds and HS2 rather than the ECML - meaning that path savings south of York on the ECML are especially valuable. Add in re-opening (and electrifying) the Leamside line, and the intermodals only need to find a route off the ECML from Doncaster to Pelaw Junction (according to the article, some are freightliners are currently routed around the Durham coast because of lack of capacity), but are otherwise segregated from ECML traffic all the way to Newcastle.*

It'll be interesting to see what NR comes up with.

Tobbes

*Of course, you could then relay the line from either Morperth - Kielder - Riccarton Junction - Hawick - Galashiels (yes, I know this would need a new East - North curve north of Reedsmouth, and there's the small issue of Kielder Water) or Tweedsmouth - Kelso - St. Boswells - Galashiels, and then redouble and electrify the relaid Waverley and electrify the South Suburban and you're good to the Central Belt. But one step at a time....
 
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Telegraph reporting that alternatives to HS2 offer better value for money than HS2

High Speed 2 represents far worse value for taxpayers' money than plans to upgrade existing rail routes, the government’s own analysis has found.
The economic benefits of HS2 will be significantly lower than rival schemes to improve conventional lines between London and the north, it said. Abandoning HS2 in favour of a programme of upgrade work to tracks and stations along existing mainline routes would deliver an extra £1 in economic benefits for every £1 spent, the figures showed.

The findings could critically undermine David Cameron's attempt to re-launch HS2 in the face of growing political opposition. Ministers published their latest economic “business case” for the controversial £50 billion high speed project last week, as the Prime Minister sought to deflect pressure onto Ed Miliband over Labour’s wavering support for the plan.

Key to the government’s argument for proceeding with the scheme is the benefit to the wider economy which will result from a new, high-speed rail link between London, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds. Ministers paraded the latest official estimate of the economic value of the plan, which claimed that HS2 would deliver £2.30 in benefits for every £1 spent on the scheme. The figure was based on an assessment of the impact of quicker travel times, more trains running between London and the north, and extra investment in jobs and businesses along the new route, among other factors. However, detailed analysis buried within a separate 150-page study into the alternatives to HS2, also published by the Department for Transport last week, showed that upgrading services on existing rail routes would provide far better value for money.

According to this study, one package of improvement works to existing lines between London, Birmingham and northern cities would deliver economic benefits equal to £3.30 for every £1 invested, 43 per cent more than HS2. A second package of possible upgrade works offered potential benefits of £3.10 for every £1 spent, said the study, which was conducted by Atkins Ltd, the engineering consultancy, with the Department for Transport and Network Rail. These “strategic alternatives” to HS2 would deliver improvements to the East Coast Main Line, the Midland Mainline and the West Coast Main Line.The plans include the laying of extra track, closures of level crossings, the electrification of existing routes, new platforms, and more trains per hour across large sections of the network between London, the Midlands and the North.Parts of the East Coast Main Line would operate at higher speeds of up to 140mph under the alternative proposals.

Department for Transport officials confirmed that the findings represented a fair comparison of the value for money offered by HS2 and the alternatives. However, they insisted that upgrading conventional rail lines would not deliver the same capacity improvements as the entirely new route proposed under HS2. The conclusions prompted fresh demands from opponents of HS2 for ministers to halt the project. Cheryl Gillan, the former Cabinet minister, who is a fierce opponent of HS2, said the figures showed “a phenomenal difference” in value for money between the high speed plan and the alternatives. She said the government had failed properly to consider the alternatives before committing billions of pounds to HS2. “This is another example of where the taxpayers’ money could well be better spent,” she said. “People who are against HS2 are not suggesting that nothing else needs to be done. We know there are alternatives but the Department for Transport does not want to face the fact that there are alternatives.
“I am sure the taxpaying and railway travelling British public would prefer to have taxpayers’ money on something that yields a better result for that money.”
Andrew Bridgen, the Conservative MP for North West Leicestershire, demanded that the Prime Minister scrap HS2 immediately in favour of an alternative package of upgrade work.
“I call on the government to adopt those plans, pull HS2 immediately, give the hard-pressed taxpayer far better value for money and relieve the blight that HS2 is causing across our beautiful country. There never was a business case for HS2 and the alternatives offer far better value.”
The government insisted that the benefits to costs ratio could not show “the full story” of why HS2 was necessary.

HS2 will provide 13,000 seats during peak times, compared to just 3,000 for the alternative schemes, a spokesman for the Department for Transport said.
“The alternatives to HS2 would result in up to 14 years of weekend closures across the network on multiple routes resulting in significant disruption to the travelling public.
“This is not acceptable. They also do not provide anywhere near the increase in capacity or journey time savings of HS2.”

A succession of high-level inquiries has questioned the economic case for the scheme and even Labour party figures who previously favoured HS2 are now saying that it should be abandoned.
Last month, the Commons treasury select committee said the project must be halted until ministers can offer a better economic case for the new line.
Even Lord Adonis, the Labour politician who launched HS2 as Transport Secretary, said that the project was running into trouble.

The peer is one of the strongest supporters of HS2 but he warned that it required "much better project management, in particular to get the costs under control".
Labour MPs were now "rightly asking questions" about the rising bill for the project, he told the Week in Westminster on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday.
 
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