High Speed Rail beyond HS2

[HSTEd]

Well the Government's position is apparently that a High Speed Network will be created beyond the HS2 and its planned extensions to Leeds and Manchester.

Now if we were to exclude the possible extension to Scotland (whether via East or West) as that can be discussed in the HS2 thread, which main line is most likely to be duplicated by a high speed route in the future?

Brighton Main Line followed by the Coast Line towards Bournemouth or perhaps the Great Western?

 

[Waverley125]

1) A 'cut the corner' between East Midlands & London to cut journey times to Sheffield & Leeds

2) High Speed Leeds-Newcastle-Edinburgh to connect EMs/NE to Scotland

3) NW-Glasgow/Edinburgh

4) Paddington-Bristol-Cardiff-Swansea

5) Paddington-Exeter-Plymouth

6) Paddington-Portsmouth-Southampton

 

[WatcherZero]

I would expect the next thing to be Great Western upgraded to 140mph and probably a high speed link via Heathrow skirting London.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I don't think there will be another High speed line like the one we are seeing here.

I would extend to Newcastle Edinburgh/ Glasgow to create like a balloon rather than Y shape.

For the SW i would probably build a line that maybe didn't have to make such an environmental impact maybe 180mph to Bristol and Cardiff.

Then maybe a spurr linking down to near Taunton, maybe even as far as Exeter. That way you could speed up the plymouth services that way. Creating a high speed line through devon hills will be very costly... cant see it happening. Also dont think it is viable hence me saying Cardiff and Bristol with a spurr so services half way can be sped up still seriously reducing journey times.

After that i dont think we need anything above 125mph anywhere.

I might even consider another channel tunnel when approaching 2033 depending on sucess of HS2 services to continent. (ie to be finished in 2050/2060s) Maybe make the second channel tunnel have more of an influence to heading towards Germany. Ie so exit on continent side is east of current exit at Galais. I know it would be longer but things will/already have moved on a lot since the designs for the current channel tunnel were finalised.

P.S this is all in my personal opinion to try and minimilize short haul flights within europe to absolute bare minimum.
P.P.S all depending on economic climate of course.

 

[tsr]

Brighton Main Line followed by the Coast Line towards Bournemouth or perhaps the Great Western?

I really can't see the Brighton Main Line becoming a high speed line any time soon, but I can see the advent of trains with greater rates of acceleration and braking.

The reason for my logic here is that the BML is a commuter route with a number of medium or large sized towns at fairly frequent intervals, as well as Brighton, most of which probably generate similar levels of income and potential income; however, HS2 will only serve Birmingham to start with (which is most likely a far larger customer base in and of itself) and does not already exist - therefore, a market for many intermediate stops has not built up along that precise route (admittedly, there are still many stops on the existing non-HS2 route that will continue to need serving, which is where I freely admit that my logic could be considered slightly flawed).

This is not to say that services should not become faster between their stops - hence my call for better acceleration and braking. I am sure this will come when the 377s (etc.) are retired, and any improvements to the signalling systems have been made.

I can definitely see a new route to Portsmouth/Southampton/Bournemouth and maybe other destinations to the west being opened - or perhaps the existing routes upgraded somehow. I'm happy with anyone posting constructive criticism of my argument for the BML.

 

[HSTEd]

I really can't see the Brighton Main Line becoming a high speed line any time soon, but I can see the advent of trains with greater rates of acceleration and braking.

The reason for my logic here is that the BML is a commuter route with a number of medium or large sized towns at fairly frequent intervals, as well as Brighton, most of which probably generate similar levels of income and potential income; however, HS2 will only serve Birmingham to start with (which is most likely a far larger customer base in and of itself) and does not already exist - therefore, a market for many intermediate stops has not built up along that precise route (admittedly, there are still many stops on the existing non-HS2 route that will continue to need serving, which is where I freely admit that my logic could be considered slightly flawed).

This is not to say that services should not become faster between their stops - hence my call for better acceleration and braking. I am sure this will come when the 377s (etc.) are retired, and any improvements to the signalling systems have been made.

I can definitely see a new route to Portsmouth/Southampton/Bournemouth and maybe other destinations to the west being opened - or perhaps the existing routes upgraded somehow. I'm happy with anyone posting constructive criticism of my argument for the BML.

I meant the BML "corridor", so going something like:

London Terminus
Gatwick Airport
Brighton
Southampton
Bournemouth
Weymouth
Exeter?
Plymouth?

That would give stop spacings similar to those on Shinkansen and would cut atleast an hour off the journey time to Weymouth or Plymouth even stopping all stations.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

There is a Greengauge 21 proposal to link the Heathrow spur to the South Western Mainline somewhere North East of Woking to create a through rote between Southampton and Manchester or Leeds for a high speed cross country type service.

 

[Eagle]

London Terminus
Gatwick Airport
Brighton
Southampton
Bournemouth
Weymouth
Exeter?
Plymouth?

Bearing in mind this is a new-build, why bother diverting the line all the way south to serve Weymouth, when you can just plough west from Bournemouth/Poole in the direction of Exeter?

 

[Rational Plan]

It all depends what happens with future growth in rail travel. Will travel peak like it has with car? I don't think it is likely due to a variety of reasons.

a)Unless immigration is clamped down on severely, the UK's population is likely add another 10 million people over the next 30 years. Most of that increase is likely to be in Southern England.

Current spatial planning strategy seems to favour massive expansion of commuter towns in the Southern Midlands/Northern Home counties rather than West or South of the Capital. Milton Keynes is easily going to add another 100,000 if not 200,000 more people.

b)There is not the political will to build major new motorway routes in this country anymore to cope with growth. Widen existing roads, yes, a bypass here and there, yes, but anything else, no. That means ever more people will switch to rail to avoid the crush on the roads.

If these trends continue then we will need many new rail lines over the next 30 years, I just don't think they will all be very high speed though. 150 mph would more than enough for new express commuter lines to Southampton, Brighton, Ipswich and Cambridge for example.

I can see the need for two new major high speed lines.
A West country line and a new East coast line.

The Great Western has slowly devolved into a West of England Metro line.
A new line could allow intercity to come back and allow decent travel times from South Wales and Devon. A minimum would see a new line from London to Bristol. The line could be express with flying junctions connecting the old line so trains can access the bigger towns. I'm not sure if I'd have the high speed line go via Reading town centre.
Trains to reading could pull off the main line and access the main station.

I think some services could be express all the way from Bristol Parkway and avoid Reading. Bristol Parkway could become a major interchange for Towns East and west of that point. Some services could continue to serve both.

The main problem for a new West of England line is where do you put all the extra trains when they get to London. There are just not many places on the edge of zone 1, where you can demolish for 400m platforms. Sure in Zone 2 and 3there are several railways yards could fit a major new terminus, but it kind of crimps the time savings for the new line the further the distance from the circle line.

A larger Great western scheme could see a new Severn tunnel with stops at just Swansea and Cardiff. A new Southwestern branch down to Plymouth with stops for Plymouth, Exeter and Taunton.


A new East coast line seems advisable at some point. Up the Lea valley to Stansted and Cambridge, with a branch from there to Norwich. It could then continue at least as far as York. Where new stations were not possible, extra platform would need to be added and towns served by classic compatible trains.

If this line was built, I imagine the existing eastern spur of HS2 would already go North from York to Newcastle by this time, so it could just join it here.


If all that is done then you could see several more short lines to complete a national network.

If transpennine continues to grow like it has then traffic between major stops and smaller towns will need to be separated. I could see an express line from Hull to Liverpool connecting with HS2 and a new East coast route.

A new High speed line from Bristol to Birmingham to Connect with a Great western Line?



The problem with all of this is that we are talking at least another £100 billion on top of HS2, which gives it a build out time of the 2080's under current spending plans. But we would also have to fit more major capacity increases in London and if the big regional centres continue to grow as commuting hubs they will eventually need their own metro systems or mini crossrails to cope with the traffic.

Don't get me wrong we have seen a major shift of acceptance for spending on rail projects in this country, the only problem is we need to really accelerate the rate we are prepared to fund them

 

[swt_passenger]

I meant the BML "corridor", so going something like:

London Terminus
Gatwick Airport
Brighton
Southampton
Bournemouth
Weymouth
Exeter?
Plymouth?

A high speed line to Southampton via Brighton would surely take almost as long as the 100 mph route that already exists via Basingstoke and Winchester?

 

[HSTEd]

Bearing in mind this is a new-build, why bother diverting the line all the way south to serve Weymouth, when you can just plough west from Bournemouth/Poole in the direction of Exeter?

You add roughly 10-20km to the route by serving Weymouth, and I thought every little bit of traffic helps, especially when you could manage 12-15tph even with a mix of fast and stopping trains. (I have my doubts that a non mixed traffic HS2 will ever be full without idiotic measures like running 140m CC trains on it independently to fill paths)

Additionally as to building new lines not as true High Speed, frankly there is no reason to not make them high speed capable, in an era with TBMs that allow tunneling costs to scale primarily by length and not by volume of material the larger tunnels to allow 320kph running implies no significant increase in infrastructure costs.

Additionally as can be seen from the Shinkansen high speed trains exist which could easily reach 300kph and decelerate again in the 20-30km stopping distances likely to be achieved on an "express" route.

Saving marginal sums by slowing the lines down would be short sighted.

 

[SteveP29]

Why can't the whole thing just go in a huge circle?

eg: London- Birmingham- Manchester- Carlisle- Glasgow- Edinburgh- Newcastle- Leeds or York- Doncaster- Peterborough- London.
Obviously double tracked so you can travel in either direction.

Giving people the option to take a quick journey inter city to several central areas of the country and making London reachable from Scotland in almost the same time as a flight would take.

 

[HSTEd]

A high speed line to Southampton via Brighton would surely take almost as long as the 100 mph route that already exists via Basingstoke and Winchester?

The fastest existing time between London and Southampton is roughly 1h14.
A stopping train via Brighton on this line would manage the route in just under an hour most likely if it stopped at Gatwick, Brighton and Portsmouth. (I make the route I would take roughly 160km).

If it was an "outer commuter" semi fast that could run fast to Southampton before stopping all shacks to Plymouth, it could cover the distance in a fraction of that time, probably on order of 45 minutes.

 

[Eagle]

If it was an "outer commuter" semi fast that could run fast to Southampton before stopping all shacks to Plymouth, it could cover the distance in a fraction of that time, probably on order of 45 minutes.

There are going to have to be some pretty tight curves on your route to serve all these places, one where the line reaches the coast at Brighton and turns right, and another to enable it to get onto and off the island and serve Portsmouth (and another in Weymouth, look at the shape of the coast). Averaging 132 mph over the route is going to be tricky.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are going to have to be some pretty tight curves on your route to serve all these places, one where the line reaches the coast at Brighton and turns right, and another to enable it to get onto and off the island and serve Portsmouth (and another in Weymouth, look at the shape of the coast). Averaging 132 mph over the route is going to be tricky.

I just can't see a HSL on and off Portsea Island at all - a triangular junction (like in the Birmingham area) wouldn't fit anywhere. I don't really think HSTEd has thought this one through...

 

[HSTEd]

I just can't see a HSL on and off Portsea Island at all - a triangular junction (like in the Birmingham area) wouldn't fit anywhere. I don't really think HSTEd has thought this one through...

Oh I have thought this one through, just you wont like the price tag....

EDIT:

For clarification you swing out to approach Gatwick from the North-West, cross north of Crawley and then start a long loop around to approach Brighton from the North-East and have a long (expensive) curving tunnel with a box station somewhere a few hundred metres north of the current one.
You then proceed under tunnel till you are back in open fields, probably somewhere in the Shoreham Airport area, you run inland of Littlehampton and then bear south to pass between Chichester and the coast, cross the Mill Rithe onto Hayling island on a viaduct and then tunnel under Portsea island with a skylighted station in the style of Stratford International in the car park of what looks to be a shopping centre north of Portsmouth and Southsea station.

The tunnel then continues under the Fareham Lake and Gosport to emerge near Lee-on-the-Solent, where it then runs inland of Stubbington to Warsash, where you enter another long tunnel under Southampton with another Stratford International station being built in the Car Park adjacent to Town Quay station.

You then emerge somewhere Toton to escape into open terrain and head on towards BOurnemouth, perhaps with a Triangle junction.


See with enough engineering-fu anything is possible

I make the route roughly 60km of tunnel in 180km route kilometres to Southampton..... which is quite... impressive.

 

[Eagle]

Oh I have thought this one through, just you wont like the price tag....

How about it doesn't actually pass through Brighton, Portsmouth or Weymouth, with services to those places reverting to the classic network for the last few miles. That would straighten it out no end.

 

[tbtc]

To justify a high speed line you need places big enough and far enough away from London.

High Speed to Paris/ Manchester etc makes sense.

Places on the south coast aren't that big or that far from London to justify it though (would you really want to travel from London to Exeter via Brighton?).

Maybe a line from London towards Bristol/Cardiff would work, but I can't see anything else (other than a second "northern" line)

 

[HSTEd]

To justify a high speed line you need places big enough and far enough away from London.

High Speed to Paris/ Manchester etc makes sense.

Places on the south coast aren't that big or that far from London to justify it though (would you really want to travel from London to Exeter via Brighton?).

Maybe a line from London towards Bristol/Cardiff would work, but I can't see anything else (other than a second "northern" line)

Well thats the thing.

The route via Brighton isn't actually that much longer really, especially not at High Speed Rail speeds, if the train could simply shunt none stop to Exeter you could easily beat the Great Western route, a train stopping at several stations on route will still beat it thanks to insane EMU accelerations.

The problem is there are no time or capacity advantages to going via Cardiff or whatever because that line will not be anywhere near capacity in the near future, whereas the BML and its compatriots in the Southern Region are and desperately need relief, additionally the ruling 100mph linespeeds in that region allow High Speed to give greater benefits.

The reason I wanted dedicated routes was to allow double decker trains as the ultimate commuter trains, but I suppose that straightens it out rather alot.

Additionally a second Northern route is rather pointless when it is entirely possible to get 20,000 seats per hour onto the proposed one alone, (15-18tph 400mm DD sets, which should be dominant on captive services which will eventually include all the major destinations.)

Well I suppose if all trains on this route had to be classic compatible that would atleast provide something to do with all the classic compatible trains left over from phase one.

 

[tbtc]

Well thats the thing.

The route via Brighton isn't actually that much longer really, especially not at High Speed Rail speeds, if the train could simply shunt none stop to Exeter you could easily beat the Great Western route, a train stopping at several stations on route will still beat it thanks to insane EMU accelerations.

The problem is there are no time or capacity advantages to going via Cardiff or whatever because that line will not be anywhere near capacity in the near future, whereas the BML and its compatriots in the Southern Region are and desperately need relief, additionally the ruling 100mph linespeeds in that region allow High Speed to give greater benefits.

The reason I wanted dedicated routes was to allow double decker trains as the ultimate commuter trains, but I suppose that straightens it out rather alot.

Additionally a second Northern route is rather pointless when it is entirely possible to get 20,000 seats per hour onto the proposed one alone, (15-18tph 400mm DD sets, which should be dominant on captive services which will eventually include all the major destinations.)

Well I suppose if all trains on this route had to be classic compatible that would atleast provide something to do with all the classic compatible trains left over from phase one.

It's still going to be over 200 miles and there's not a lot of population beyond Southampton - you could serve a lot more people with a second "northern" route (and thus avoid the need for the eastern arm of the "Y"

 

[Stats]

I struggle to see where the business case for any further HS lines stacks up. HS2 only just about stacks up because it operates pretty much to capacity, and to do that it needs to serve 3 or 4 destinations. It also frees up capacity on existing lines that are operating at or near to capacity. Where else can all this criteria be met?

Great Western Route: London - Reading - Bristol - Cardiff would benefit from HS, but they're not heavily populated areas and other than a couple of trains branching off to the South West there isn't really anywhere to branch off to operate 15 tph along the core. It probably would make more sense to find ways to improve line speeds along this route to bring it up to at least 140mph, possibly straightening it out in places and/or adding additional track at selected points.

Brighton Mail Line: Brighton - Haywards Heath - Gatwick Airport - Clapham Junction - London Victoria(or Waterloo) Commuter route that would not benefit from 225mph trains. But it is in need of additional capacity. Although I can't see a benefit from HS2 style trains, there is certainly a case for building a new line capable of 140mph trains similar to SouthEastern's HS offering. There could be branch off to Heathrow Airport in the north - possibly providing a through route to HS2 - and trains to Littlehampton/Portsmouth/Southampton travelling on the classic routes joining the HS line at Gatwick into London. This would provide a dedicated route for Gatwick Express shuttles and London-Gatwick-Brighton express trains freeing up the classic lines for more stopping services to serve the intermediate stations.

East Coast: Population wise I can't see it happening. The most likely case for a HS line on the East side is if HS2 needs more capacity to serve the North West then there may be a case to build a line from London to connect with the Leeds arm of HS2 in the East Midlands. I don't think you'll ever see HS built in the North East, and certainly not north of Newcastle - as the decision seems to have been taken to serve Edinburgh along the West Coast HS line, which makes sense if building a new line. Again, as with the Great Western it would probably be more cost effective to find ways to increase line speed by straightening out some stretches of track and improving signalling between York and Newcastle/Edinburgh.

 

[HSTEd]

I don't think you'll ever see HS built in the North East, and certainly not north of Newcastle - as the decision seems to have been taken to serve Edinburgh along the West Coast HS line, which makes sense if building a new line. Again, as with the Great Western it would probably be more cost effective to find ways to increase line speed by straightening out some stretches of track and improving signalling between York and Newcastle/Edinburgh.

It is better to serve Scotland via the Leeds Branch and Newcastle than via the North West, Leeds is further north (largely counteracting the fact that it is off the "straight line" in terms of new track required) and you get a line to Newcastle and an Edinburgh-Glasgow line for the cost of a couple of dozen kilometres of extra track. The additional travel time is not significant over the length of the journey, especially not when your trains can eat up ground at more than five kilometres every minute.

North of Manchester there is noone to use a High Speed line, whereas in the East there is a city of nearly a million people, not to mention the terrain is easier. (its not one contiguous national park)

EDIT:

Grand total of 80km extra (assuming you divert via York to get onto nice easy, non national park, terrain) to go via Newcastle and Edinburgh.

You get 19 minute Glasgow-Edinburgh travel times (based on a journey of comparable length on the Tokaido Shinkansen which is limited to 270kph) and sub two hour journey times to Newcastle, even if all trains stop at Leeds.
Its a far better deal than the "Direct" West coast route which is basically solid mountains all the way up.
Meanwhile it increases the length of the Glasgow journey from London by a ground total of 15 minutes for the same number of stops and probably has little effect on the length of the Edinburgh journey.

Thats 80km extra excluding the Edinburgh branch of a HS line from Manchester to Glasgow, which probably would use up most of it.

 

[TGV]

I struggle to see where the business case for any further HS lines stacks up.

East Coast: Population wise I can't see it happening. The most likely case for a HS line on the East side is if HS2 needs more capacity to serve the North West then there may be a case to build a line from London to connect with the Leeds arm of HS2 in the East Midlands. .

I see your point. But LGV Atlantique in North Western France heads west from Paris and the largest two population centres it serves are Le Mans (pop 150,000) and Tours/St Pierre des corps (pop 140,000) - the combined total of both cities is less than Sunderland, Leeds or Newcastle individually, let alone combined.

There are onward journeys on classic lines to Bordeaux but even including that, an east coast "ligne a grande vitesse" would serve a much larger population base if it had services to Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesborough, a branch to Leeds and onward services to Edinburgh and beyond.

 

[JohnCarlson]

It all depends what happens with future growth in rail travel. Will travel peak like it has with car? I don't think it is likely due to a variety of reasons.

a)Unless immigration is clamped down on severely, the UK's population is likely add another 10 million people over the next 30 years. Most of that increase is likely to be in Southern England.

SNIP



If transpennine continues to grow like it has then traffic between major stops and smaller towns will need to be separated. I could see an express line from Hull to Liverpool connecting with HS2 and a new East coast route.

A new High speed line from Bristol to Birmingham to Connect with a Great western Line?



The problem with all of this is that we are talking at least another £100 billion on top of HS2, which gives it a build out time of the 2080's under current spending plans. But we would also have to fit more major capacity increases in London and if the big regional centres continue to grow as commuting hubs they will eventually need their own metro systems or mini crossrails to cope with the traffic.

Don't get me wrong we have seen a major shift of acceptance for spending on rail projects in this country, the only problem is we need to really accelerate the rate we are prepared to fund them

Predicting the future is difficult (of course) but yes rising population, less petrol will add to demand. Just think how demand today would increase if rail fairs were cut by 50%.

I can see more high(er) speed routs being built to bypass bottlenecks and a high speed lines to Scotland and Wales and the west but that is about it.

 

[Stats]

Hmmm... I hadn't considered the possibility of Scotland being served purely via the East Coast. When you look at it in that context the economic case for a line via Teesside and Tyneside certainly looks a lot more appealing. The main problem is that the direct route from Newcastle to Edinburgh/Glasgow goes straight through Northumberland National Park and the Cheviots... but I suppose if they're prepared to go through the Chilterns then that isn't going to bother politicians.

 

[Badger]

Join all of the capitals together. London to Edinburgh, London to Cardiff, Edinburgh to Dublin via Belfast...

Looking at Wikipedia, the ten biggest conurbations are: London, West Midlands, Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Tyneside, Liverpool, Sheffield, Nottingham, Belfast. It would make sense to join these up with high speed lines. The first five are dealt with by HS2, so a HS3 could join Tyneside, Sheffield, and Nottingham; and then a HS4 with a large tunnel or bridge (can dream) could link Glasgow with Belfast and then continue to Dublin. A further high speed spur from Manchester to Liverpool would then complete the lot!

 

[David Dunning]

Just a thought but what if history repeats itself a bit.
It's 2030 and building of the HS2 is way over budget and a political minefield . Add to that a new fuel source has been discoved that means that road transport is cheap and no longer causes polution . By the opening date of HS2 a number of rural lines have fallen victim to cheap and frequent hydro-bus services . A pro road government announces the building of the new North South super highway equiped with six lanes each way and road train technology. It will run in a Y shape from London to Birmingham and then Glasgow and Edinburgh . The second channel tunnel is a road one together with a bridge from Ireland to Scotland. There is talk of converting HS2 to road and plans for HS3 to Bristol and the West Country are scrapped in favour of a six lane A30 upgrade. Now I know it doesnt look likely , but then I never thought id feel like i was reliving the 1970s again..til today

 

[HSTEd]

Just a thought but what if history repeats itself a bit.
It's 2030 and building of the HS2 is way over budget and a political minefield . Add to that a new fuel source has been discoved that means that road transport is cheap and no longer causes polution . By the opening date of HS2 a number of rural lines have fallen victim to cheap and frequent hydro-bus services . A pro road government announces the building of the new North South super highway equiped with six lanes each way and road train technology. It will run in a Y shape from London to Birmingham and then Glasgow and Edinburgh . The second channel tunnel is a road one together with a bridge from Ireland to Scotland. There is talk of converting HS2 to road and plans for HS3 to Bristol and the West Country are scrapped in favour of a six lane A30 upgrade. Now I know it doesnt look likely , but then I never thought id feel like i was reliving the 1970s again..til today

I feel like its the early 80s myself

But Im not sure your cars will be able to drive from London to Birmingham in 45 minutes, especially not as the HS2 road route would have two lanes each way at best.

A cheap fuel source just means a return to gas turbine trains.

 

[Badger]

If a cheap fuel source was discovered we'd be using it on the railways and saving money from not having them electrified! (Or they'd be powering the electricity making it cheaper anyway).

 

[LE Greys]

I agree with all the Bristol/South Wales ideas. My version of that involves the new line from London to Heathrow, with the option of running into Euston or Paddington, but mostly Paddington to avoid putting too much pressure on Euston (dreams of a new tunnel under London to Ebbsfleet remain just that). It then rejoins the GWML west of Slough, allowing it to serve Reading, where there is an avoiding line, continues along the original lines, zooms through Didcot Parkway, uses new fast lines to Swindon, goes straight through the middle of the station (which has the new platform moved back to allow the down loop to be restored) and only becomes a genuinely new route at Wooton Basset. It splits north of Bath, with one half going via Bristol Parkway to a second Severn Tunnel and the other running into Temple Meads, then via new fast lines to Taunton and Plymouth. West of there, the line would be upgraded with tilt, and the whole Didcot-Paddington section would be upgraded to 155 mph (which is about the maximum they can cope with). Reading South Junction-Newbury would also get new fast lines, but only for 155 mph. That's probably a lot more expensive than a dedicated new line, but it means no out-of-town stations (except the inevitable Bath North) and a genuine improvement to the current service rather than an all-new line. Basically, the German model taken to extremes.

There would be no fare supplements or special arrangements, and the new trains would be operated by whoever holds the Great Western franchise.