High Peak Bus Company / Trentbarton Split [Merged Thread]

[northwichcat]

Does anyone know why one of older Bowers Solos that was running around in a plain red livery even before the rebranding, has remained in a plain red livery and is still in use? Are there plans for it to go or is it an emergency backup vehicle or something?

 

[MCR247]

I think it's funny that a restaurant in huddersfield has paid for an advert on the back of a centrebus double decker when it can currently be seen in Nottingham, working TP

 

[omnibologist]

Does anyone know why one of older Bowers Solos that was running around in a plain red livery even before the rebranding, has remained in a plain red livery and is still in use? Are there plans for it to go or is it an emergency backup vehicle or something?

It seems as if the money has run out as only one repaint has taken place recently and ther are Solos in several diferent liveries. They seem to be concentrating on upgrading Dove Holes depot as the are hoping to have all staff and vehicles in there by early December though I don't khow how they will fit them all in ?

 

[northwichcat]

High Peak have registered the 300 Knutsford Circular as a commercial service from April 2013. The first journey has been withdrawn as have the Tabley Road/Queensway extensions but they all go via Lilac Avenue now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It seems as if the money has run out as only one repaint has taken place recently and ther are Solos in several diferent liveries.

I've noticed one still in the Bowers livery and branding has a big University of Derby advert on the back so that one might not have been repainted due to the advertising period agreed for the advert.

 

[323235]

High Peak have today cancelled their 27 Macclesfield - Knutsford service registration with effect from the 3rd April.

PC0001086/40 - ERIC W BOWERS COACHES LTD T/A Bowers Coaches, 102 CANNOCK STREET, LEICESTER, LE4 9HR
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Knutsford and Macclesfield/ Congleton given service number 27/27A/27B effective from 03-Apr-2013.

Unless they're transferring the registration to High Peak Buses Limited?

 

[northwichcat]

High Peak have today cancelled their 27 Macclesfield - Knutsford service registration with effect from the 3rd April.



Unless they're transferring the registration to High Peak Buses Limited?

Cancelled according to Cheshire East

High Peak have withdrawn their 27 registration from 3rd April 2013. Cheshire East Transport are looking at various options to replace the 27 service including Community Transport and are in contact with a number of alternative operators. Further information will be added as soon as possible.

They only revised the route yesterday to include the village of Ollerton and Knutsford rail station on all services and to remove the Beggarman's Lane runs, so they can't possibly have assessed whether their revision has been successful yet.

 

[33109]

Great seen as high peak travel have only just started running the 27. Lets hope they don't do the same thing & drop the contract after a couple of weeks for the 392/393 stockport services???

Speaking of the 393/392 routes do any of high peak drivers even know the route?

 

[northwichcat]

Great seen as high peak travel have only just started running the 27. Lets hope they don't do the same thing & drop the contract after a couple of weeks for the 392/393 stockport services???

Speaking of the 393/392 routes do any of high peak drivers even know the route?

Bowers (now High Peak) took over the 27 route from Bakerbus over 5 years ago. Although, until last September it was a subsided contracted service with hourly frequency but since then a commercial service with an approx 90 minute frequency.

 

[323235]

Speaking of the 393/392 routes do any of high peak drivers even know the route?

I saw a Bowers branded Solo on what looked like route learning a few weeks ago at Adlington Legh Arms. Could have been a re-routed empty bus move to enable drivers to become more familar with the area?

 

[33109]

So who runs this service then? Slightly confused bowers or high peak travel?
I was under the impression that high peak travel & bowers coaches had merged to become 1 company?

What's to say that we're not going to have just a couple of months with em running it then doing a runner when things don't work out how they want??????

 

[323235]

High Peak is a company formed by the merger of Bowers and Trent Barton's Dove Holes garage.

It is a 50/50 venture between Wellglade Group and Centrebus although it appears Centrebus have responsibility for day to day running.

The 392/393 is a subsidised service so its very unlikely they would run from it unless a) they grossly undervalued the subsidy needed to operate it b) they go into administration which is also less likely now they have the strength of Bowers (mostly contracted work) and Trent Barton (have a number of commercial services).

 

[northwichcat]

High Peak is a company formed by the merger of Bowers and Trent Barton's Dove Holes garage.

It is a 50/50 venture between Wellglade Group and Centrebus although Centrebus it appears have responsibility for day to day running.

The operating licence remains under the Bowers name though and uses the Centrebus head office address. The former Trent Barton routes with High Peak had their registrations cancelled and had new registrations added under the Bowers licence.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
High Peak have also now cancelled route 1 Macclesfield to Forest Cottage

 

[323235]

The Number 1 has always confused me because it is not on any of the subsidised bus service lists but changed from Arriva to High Peak last year.

High Peak must therefore have register it commercially after Arriva withdrew a commercial service on the route?

The Number 1 has never comes across as the most profitable service and I have for a while considered that the route would be better incorporated into the 58 which already serves the Forest Cottage terminus.

High Peak seem to be in a permenant state of change at the moment, they are amending the 394 timetable again on the 25th after already recently changing it twice and are amending the route of the Number 1 on the March 4th prior to withdrawing it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They only revised the route yesterday to include the village of Ollerton and Knutsford rail station on all services and to remove the Beggarman's Lane runs, so they can't possibly have assessed whether their revision has been successful yet.

Has there been a gradual fall-off in the recorded passenger number level on the service 27 service over the last 12 months ?

 

[northwichcat]

Has there been a gradual fall-off in the recorded passenger number level on the service 27 service over the last 12 months ?

It's not really possible for the average passenger to tell.

The reduction in frequency and big fare increase may have put off some passengers from using the bus. However, with the times being different you can't say there are now 18 passengers on a particular service when previously there were 25.

Up until last September the cheapest to most expensive public transport cost to neighbouring towns from Knutsford was: Macclesfield, Altrincham, Wilmslow, Northwich, with quite a big difference between the Macclesfield and Northwich costs. Now I think it is: Altrincham, Macclesfield, Wilmslow, Northwich, with a much smaller range of fares.

 

[northwichcat]

I noticed a plain green Solo with a small centrebus logo operating the 300 service this morning. Perhaps this bus has come from the Huddersfield Bus Company at some point?

I've also noticed High Peak have removed posts from their Facebook page relating to poor punctuality on the 27 and 300 routes. How hard is it to just respond saying roadworks causing the issue in the case of the 300 route? In the case of the 27 route it's a combination of a unrealistic timetable using a single bus and roadworks.

 

[martinsh]

I
High Peak have removed posts from their Facebook page relating to poor punctuality on the 27 and 300 routes. How hard is it to just respond saying roadworks causing the issue in the case of the 300 route? .

Very hard. Much easier to deregister the route ....:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

Very hard. Much easier to deregister the route ....:roll:

From Twitter: CEC will shortly be issuing a tender for the op of a revised 27 Macc which it believes will cover the majority of jrns currently undertaken.

I wonder if High Peak will have the cheek to submit a proposal to run the new subsided service after withdrawing the commercial service?

Incidentally, with regards to my earlier post it turns out the green Solo is a former Holmeswood Coaches vehicle.

 

[Deerfold]

I wonder if High Peak will have the cheek to submit a proposal to run the new subsided service after withdrawing the commercial service?

Bus companies usually do.

 

[WillPS]

Yeah. The long-running commercial 53 in Nottingham continues to be run by NCT, now as the L53 under tender.

 

[martinsh]

I surprised Bakers or GHA haven't registered the route commercially

 

[Deerfold]

Yeah. The long-running commercial 53 in Nottingham continues to be run by NCT, now as the L53 under tender.

That's a sad shadow of its former self - I remember sections of it being every 10 minutes at peaks (so long as you included the "54" short journeys). Looks to have improved since I last saw it but sadly no evening or Sunday service.

The problem with services that don't go into City Centres is that unless you both your end points are on the route they only tend to save time if they're reasonably frequent - and so once the frequency starts dropping passenger numbers tend to drop faster. Much the same thing happened in Leeds, with their ring road bus which has dropped from a similar half-hourly with 15 mins at peaks to a series of hourly or worse services run by different operators that serve most parts of the ring road but go on and off it.

 

[MCR247]

Wasn't the 54 basically what is now the 73 (Netherfield - City Hospital)?

 

[323235]

I surprised Bakers or GHA haven't registered the route commercially

Personally I don't think the route was ready to become a commercial service however I think Cheshire East Council made quite an effort to encourage High Peak to do so, in an attempt to get it off the subsidy list.

The 2011 data released by Cheshire East Council gave 73,491 passenger journeys for a £129,914 annual subsidy, hardly spectacular numbers from where I'm sitting. They tried to cut costs,increase fares and reduce the frequency to make it profitable but the latter two had a seriously negative effect.

I do however support your view that Bakerbus and GHA/Vale of Llangollen running the service could be the best way forward. Bakerbus because they have some of the lowest fares and GHA because their weekly ticket at £18 is very good value and they operate the 289/88 so its a natural fit into their micro network in that area.

 

[northwichcat]

Personally I don't think the route was ready to become a commercial service however I think Cheshire East Council made quite an effort to encourage High Peak to do so, in an attempt to get it off the subsidy list.

The 2011 data released by Cheshire East Council gave 73,491 passenger journeys for a £129,914 annual subsidy, hardly spectacular numbers from where I'm sitting. They tried to cut costs,increase fares and reduce the frequency to make it profitable but the latter two had a seriously negative effect.

A few things to consider with the subsidy quoted:
1. The route takes an awkward amount of time to operate. One bus running a 90 minute frequency is a tight fit and delays at the start of the day can't be recovered. Two buses operating hourly mean long turnaround times.
2. There were two council owned Wright Cadets designated to the route at the time - incidentally where have the Cheshire Connect branded vehicles that Bowers used to have gone? They also had a DART that was usually used on the Prestbury route.
3. The council subsidy was actually proportionally lower when the service was enhanced to an hourly frequency under Bakerbus. The reason for this is the route also got two other subsides at the time - one from AstraZeneca and one from a government rural bus grant.

One idea that could be considered is Barclays run a works contract between Knutsford station and Radbrooke Hall - near one of the calling points on the 27 route. If the council/operator worked with Barclays you could probably get a profitable commercial service. You'd just need to ensure a half-hourly frequency at peak times on the Knutsford - Whipping Stock Inn section to match what the works contract that Barclays awarded to Selwyns offers.

Another idea would be to run the service at an hourly frequency but to extend it to Tatton Park instead of sitting idle at Knutsford bus station for so long, like the old limited service on Sundays and Bank Holidays.

If High Peak don't get awarded the new subsided 27 route, the 300 route will look even more out-of-place on High Peak's list of routes.

 

[Deerfold]

Wasn't the 54 basically what is now the 73 (Netherfield - City Hospital)?

I think there may have been a 54 like that but in the early 90s it was used for any journey on the 53 which didn't reach the end of the route in either direction.

 

[northwichcat]

I do however support your view that Bakerbus and GHA/Vale of Llangollen running the service could be the best way forward. Bakerbus because they have some of the lowest fares and GHA because their weekly ticket at £18 is very good value and they operate the 289/88 so its a natural fit into their micro network in that area.

One thing I remembered about Bakerbus is when they had the 27 route the first bus of the day ran Biddulph-Congleton-Macclesfield-Knutsford and the last two buses in the opposite direction did the reverse. They obviously thought the buses would be running between Macclesfield and Biddulph anyway so they might as well run them in service and try and pick up some fares on the way.

It's a pity High Peak run the bus off the 300 daytime service back empty from Knutsford bus station at around 17:40, when the Macclesfield departures are 16:45 and 18:25 - not really suitable for someone who has a job that finishes at 5!

 

[MCR247]

I think there may have been a 54 like that but in the early 90s it was used for any journey on the 53 which didn't reach the end of the route in either direction.

Oh ok

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One thing I remembered about Bakerbus is when they had the 27 route the first bus of the day ran Biddulph-Congleton-Macclesfield-Knutsford and the last two buses in the opposite direction did the reverse. They obviously thought the buses would be running between Macclesfield and Biddulph anyway so they might as well run them in service and try and pick up some fares on the way.

Would BakerBus have run the Biddulph-Congleton-Macclesfield sections as either the 99 or the 99B services and then changed over to showing 27 service when at Macclesfield bus station...and vice-versa ?

Also, did any 99/99B services ever run as far as to the Astra-Zeneca complex at any time ?

 

[northwichcat]

Would BakerBus have run the Biddulph-Congleton-Macclesfield sections as either the 99 or the 99B services and then changed over to showing 27 service when at Macclesfield bus station...and vice-versa ?

No they were shown as 27 routes in the timetable (although I can't remember whether they were 27, 27A or 27B) and the evening buses showed Biddulph via Macclesfield on their destination displays on departure from Knutsford.

There would have been a limited direct from Biddulph and Congleton to Astra Zeneca, which might have suited a few commuters.