Hi, my name is carriage number 55571...

[Bletchleyite]

The trouble with those type of seat covers is they use velcro around the edges to hold them in place and quite frankly the seats are old like the trains and they just dont fit like they should.

Needs a redesign then, I'd imagine any skilled tailor could design something suitable fairly quickly.

How much do you think Northern should spend on pacers and 153's as they will be phased out anyway?

Enough to keep them presentable and reliable and to keep all passenger facilities fully working.

 

[DarloRich]

So, you:

1. Took picture of the sign telling you to visit https://northernrailway.co.uk/comments to report a problem with the train.
2. Took a picture of a problem with the train.
3. Went online to a forum and uploaded the pictures and moaned about the problem.
4. Did not bother to actually report the problem.

this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And there is the ingrained business operational / cultural problem.

It is good if passengers report these things, but they *should not have to*. The first time a guard walks through the train and sees that it has not been properly cleaned, or a seat cover is hanging off, or a light bulb failed, or whatever, *they* should have an easy way to report it - a feature of the new ticket machines would be an excellent way, or a mobile app. The ticket raised for this should be workflowed through to the correct depot for the parts to be automatically ordered, and the fix scheduled, and the workflow should report back to the reporting member of staff that it has actually been fixed.

But if, for example, I keep seeing trains with mucky air vents at ceiling level, as I do (a cleaning task that takes half a second with a suitably powerful vacuum cleaner) the culture simply isn't there for the proper attention to detail. Crikey, not wishing to bring them into this thread more in passing, but the so-called refurbished GatEx 442s still had obvious filth on ceiling conduits they day they entered service.

It says lack of attention to detail and "can't be bothered" to me. The culture has to change. It needs to change to "if you become aware of something wrong, however minor, whoever you are, whatever your job is - it is *your* responsibility". And more importantly, the management culture needs to change to taking such reports seriously.

While I agree in principle in reality time pressures on unit turn around impacts on the ability to do this kind of work. Imagine the ire of passengers if services were cancelled or short formed due to cleaning air vents! There isn't the slack in many fleets for ad hoc stoppages for relatively minor items.

None safety critical faults will get picked up at the next planned stoppage unless they impact on the serviceability of the train. There is also the practicality of getting the unit back to depot for attention out of course.

take our Marston Vale chuggers - anything that cant be fixed in the field needs to go back to Tysley. I would rather they cordoned off a broken/damaged seat and ran for the rest of the week rather than cancel the train and send it to Birmingham to have a seat cover changed.

You also assume there are lots of cleaners available with time to undertake these tasks. I bet they are few in number, contracted out and with a vast fleet to cover during a short overnight window. I bet management are always looking to cut the numbers and squeeze the contact!

Exactly this ! I opens up the thought in my mind that if a TOC can't maintain the stuff you can see, what the hell goes off with the stuff you can't see, especially the safety critical items.

I am fairly certain the TOC's don't skimp on safety critical maintenance! They may make engineering risk assessment based decisions to delay, say, mileage based work if the train doesn't reach those mileages but to suggest short cutting safety is a serious charge!

I also find it infuriating also when you report a problem and get fobbed off with complete rubbish and excuses for not fixing the problem.

damn that inconvenient truth!

 

[philthetube]

I agree. But it is a fact that some lazy passengers do chuck their filth on the floor, and like graffiti, filth breeds more filth. Thus it is a good use of money to properly clean it up.

Turnarounds are irrelevant, as you can have travelling cleaners. Cleaning can take place on a moving train. This is how VTWC does it, and it works very, very well. Northern couldn't afford to have cleaners on all trains at all times, but I expect they could afford to have a small team based at Manc Picc (say) who would travel out a couple of stops cleaning one train then back cleaning another, at least during the day when frequencies are reasonably high.

northern do have travelling cleaners, I see them often between Blackburn and Rose Grove

 

[Deepgreen]

Can't be bothered to, or can't be bothered to pay for.

It's hardly a difficult requirement.

TBH, if Pacers end up in that state so will any new stock. It's just a culture of cheapness and can't-be-bothered, made worse with a culture of vandalism and disregard in many passengers.

I observed that in a Northern 153 refurb I used last night - even the paint job is rushed and messy. It looks cheap and nasty, and it is.

I thought it was a thoughtfully-provided blanket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Imagine the ire of passengers if services were cancelled or short formed due to cleaning air vents!

Air vents don't get that mucky during the day in one day. It's built up grime because they are never cleaned.

The units should go out spotless every morning. They don't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

take our Marston Vale chuggers - anything that cant be fixed in the field needs to go back to Tysley. I would rather they cordoned off a broken/damaged seat and ran for the rest of the week rather than cancel the train and send it to Birmingham to have a seat cover changed.

It's quite apparent that using units based in Tyseley does not make for a service that is in any way acceptable on the Marston Vale.

You also assume there are lots of cleaners available with time to undertake these tasks. I bet they are few in number, contracted out and with a vast fleet to cover during a short overnight window. I bet management are always looking to cut the numbers and squeeze the contact!

Precisely, and that again is not acceptable.

 

[Peter Sarf]

While re-reading the articles on electrification delays in my Modern Railways for December 2015 I noticed on page 76 a picture of what I assume the original poster is talking about !. Bit embarrassed I did not recall it earlier but its interesting how, almost a year later, it raises more eyebrows now .

 

[TUC]

Also dirty slovenly passengers should use the fricking bins instead of leaving their crap everywhere.Cant blame it all on TOCs. The state of some early evening trains on our route beggars belief,and its all lazy passengers littering as they cant be arsed to go to a bin
Me..I'd leave it with a sign saying "Your fellow passengers left this.Not us.There are bins.We can only clean so much up in the short turnarounds.Thanks,Insert TOC"

Not that much gets cleaned up even on some longer turnarounds on Northern.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I have seen Cleaners making it pretty respectable on a Hadfield round trip then 1 hour 20 mins later back in Piccadilly its a tip. Sadly a lot of passengers either don't know how to use bins or frankly don't give a damn.

 

[anti-pacer]

So, you:

1. Took picture of the sign telling you to visit https://northernrailway.co.uk/comments to report a problem with the train.
2. Took a picture of a problem with the train.
3. Went online to a forum and uploaded the pictures and moaned about the problem.
4. Did not bother to actually report the problem.

Very justified moan I would say.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have seen Cleaners making it pretty respectable on a Hadfield round trip then 1 hour 20 mins later back in Piccadilly its a tip. Sadly a lot of passengers either don't know how to use bins or frankly don't give a damn.

Northerners do seem to think littering is a leisure pursuit. Look at our streets.

 

[Foxcover]

Northern should take a field trip to Merseyrail who do a fairly neat job of keeping an even older and just as heavily used fleet feeling good and fresh inside. I know the economics are different but it demonstrates that old units don't have to be decrepit.